Boards DCM22 Graduates Thread - A Deeper Understanding

AlmightyCushion · 07-04-2023 8:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120411546#Comment_120411546

I did it as well. You weren't actually meant to cross that bridge you were meant to stay on the road. They really should have had a sign up saying that though as it was such an easy mistake to make.

Lazare · 07-04-2023 9:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120452719#Comment_120452719

Yep, totally agree.

Lazare · 07-04-2023 9:40pm

I ran my sub 4 in 2017 and I've just looked back at my half time from the build up.

I ran 1:46:14.

That was a much faster course than Wicklow.

You'll blast it.

Lazare · 07-04-2023 9:43pm

For anyone else following that link I put in the random questions thread, please feel free to join in here.

Everyone welcome.

The plans in the OP are absolutely top notch, you would serve yourself well having a look over them.

Lazare · 07-04-2023 9:53pm

@Pawwed Rig PR, how are you feeling about Belfast?

Taper beginning next week?

Pawwed Rig · 07-04-2023 11:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120452983#Comment_120452983

Not sure. I got a bit of a strain in my calf 6k into a 15k run yesterday evening. It was sore and I had to walk for a while but managed to finish the run. Was a bit tender this morning so I took today off. Still feels tight this evening.

I have the 3 hour run to do in the morning so will see how it holds up.

Pawwed Rig · 08-04-2023 8:21pm

I did 30km (which is the 2nd longest run I ever did) this morning and thankfully no bad effects on the calf strain. Feels fine now so hard to know what the issue was. It may have been as simple as a hydration issue.

I am doing the Battle of Clontarf 10 mile in Monday which will incorporate a 75 min tempo run that I missed last week. After that it is the taper to D Day on April 30th.

Looking forward to it now. I have put the work in and my target time should be well within my capabilities so hopefully it will be an enjoyable experience

masterK · 08-04-2023 8:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120452756#Comment_120452756

Aha, that makes sense. I did it last year too and didn't cross that bridge. We all just followed like sheep. It also explains why everyone was 200 metres under the distance

masterK · 08-04-2023 8:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120452719#Comment_120452719

I'm hoping I can on the day, Dublin was my only other full, it didn't go to plan so its shook my confidence a little. My plan is to aim for about 3:55 in the first half, if I'm feeling good at that point hopefully I can push on a bit more

Murph_D · 08-04-2023 9:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120455842#Comment_120455842

When you say the race will incorporate a temp run do you mean you won't be 'racing' it as such? Presume not as a 30k run a couple of days before would not have been a great idea. Even if not racing I'd be wary enough about taking on this race/session so soon after such a long effort, itself the day after calf niggle. You need to be really careful managing the effort over the final few weeks, especially considering all the good work put in to date. Good luck!

Pawwed Rig · 08-04-2023 9:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120456007#Comment_120456007

A 75 min tempo run is part of the training plan so I was going to do that on Monday. The plan I am doing is the one in the OP of this thread so trying to make sure I touch on all the runs.

I get your point though. I took a day off yesterday and will have another one off tomorrow and see how I feel on Monday morning 👍🏾

Cheers D

Walkedit · 14-04-2023 3:05pm

Hey I'm new although this is my second time around, I'm 62yo. I really enjoyed these threads from when I was here before, so much encouragement and accountability, with a wealth of knowledge available. I'm hoping to get a bit of advice and find a new tribe for the next part of my running story.

What follows is very long so feel free to ignore it.

Some background. I Was a quite heavy bloke 18st at 5:9 and lost weight to 13.5st with WW in 2010 -was looking at 50's coming down the tracks fast. I walked DCM about 8 hrs in 2010 & 2011 (included last 4x hours in a downpour!) and ran it in 2012 (4:51) & 2017 (5:10) and a virtual in 2020 (5:06). A big parkrun fan ever since Malahide early days. I don't race much. I had some injuries especially calf strains that bothered me. I was training on/off for a bit and moved barefoot shoes about 6x years ago and now that's all I wear 24/7, I don't have great form or cadence but have been injury free since I switched. I had a horror ankle break in 2018 6x weeks out from Boston, needed a plate & screws. I have had a pretty full recovery over 18 months, I credit doing HBOT a lot for this. Full disclosure I did not BQ but had picked up a sponsor place in a lottery, given the weather that transpired I guess I dodged a bullet but I was devo.

I'm a run streaker on day #1199 today and that was a complete blessing during Covid, most of my running is super easy, including running to work a few days a week more recently after 2 years of WFH. So I have some running base and have averaged 6km daily, been doing 45k per week but stretching to 60k most recently.

I have 2xs sets of PB's from before/after the ankle break. Pre 5/10/21/42 23:11/52:27/2:09:58/4:51:31 Post (all in 2020) 5/10/21/42 26:21/56:26/2:21:04/5:06:35. I did the 5 Alive series this year with BHAA DCC 4 mile in 36:51 and the Raheny 5 mile in 48:09. Tom Brennan 5k 29:59 so that's my form now.

I'm wanting to get back on the horse properly and will be toeing the line at DCM '23.

My big goal in the next 18 months is to BQ which for 60-64 is 3:50:00 and to start down that path by beating my 2012 time in 2023. I'm also really keen to stay injury free and keep running for life, so I see myself playing long game.

My plans so far are:

Work on making the 60k pw the regular between now and end May
Losing a few lbs, I was 14:7 post Xmas, now at 13:1 with a target of 12:7 (which is how I was for my Pre PB's so I know it plays a part, I'm a low carber and eat I/F usually OMAD, I ran DCM 2017 fasted which worked surprisingly well but it was slow!!)
Joining a training group in the local running club which is clonliffe
Looking at starting Intermediate training plan at start of June
Probably look at HM in Aug/Sept

Lazare · 14-04-2023 9:29pm

Welcome aboard Walkedit, although your name should be Runedit given that awesome streak.

Fair play, that's really amazing, especially as you say through Covid.

You've had a tough road over the last few years, I can only imagine how gutted you were missing out on Boston so cruelly like that.

You have an amazing attitude though, that positivity is pure gold. It's what will get you that BQ goal.

I'm also chasing a BQ this year, Amsterdam for me.

Let's do it.

We'll be meeting up in Boston for post race celebrations.

You mention your next race focus may be a half in Aug/Sep. Would you consider targeting something sooner, shorter, 5k 10k maybe?

Also, have a look at the plans linked in the OP. They're really fantastic, I can personally vouch.

Walkedit · 15-04-2023 9:19am

@Lazare for the welcome and kind words. The streak is amazing even to me but it's compounding doing it's work - don't break the streak today!

I was quite delighted in 2010 that I had "walked" it as it got the monkey I was carrying around off my back before turning 50 - baby steps.

Yep an earlier maybe 5/10k race, that makes sense. I'm on hols thru May 12th so any serious race specific training starts then. And I'll be running thru the hols obviously so maybe start playing with it on tour. I can easily target a parkrun for a big push, I've done a few recently but just trotted around.

I meant the OP intermediate plans to start with, so maybe I pick the 10k one 1st.

On the weight front (OK any front) I love a few stats and normally weight daily although I didnt track it for months fron July to March - the results were nor good! Anyway the attached show my progress over the last few years ups & downs, despite a fairly decent diet and an active run streak. But from 1/1/23 to today a small milestone, I've dropped exactly 10% of my body weight 20.4 lbs. More evidence of the results when you get after it every day. It's classic marathon stuff, have a plan, use the plan, trust the process.

Screenshot_20230415-083749.jpg

Day #1200 here I come

Walkedit · 15-04-2023 12:19pm

As a baseline I decided to run a 5k timetrial today, did a 3k easy warmup with few strides, then 5k in 25:38 (a 40 sec PB) the pacing was consistent 5:04/07/02/12/09 but was tailing off a bit.

I'm thinking that makes a sub 25 5k a good near term target. thoughts?

Lazare · 15-04-2023 11:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120480520#Comment_120480520

Wow! Congrats. Of course sub 25 is short term doable. Go for it.

Remember, a race environment is very different to a solo TT, in a positive sense. No reason why you won't run low 24s after a bit of specific training.

Well done.

Walkedit · 17-04-2023 6:49am

I'm literally researching what to do intervals, hill repeats tempo runs etc and thinking about the paces based on the timetrial. I did a small bit before. I had ankle break in 2018 and have pretty much run all easy since then as I've been afraid to push on it, I think the TT is probably the 1st "quality" workout post break. it's time to visit the cave.

so I'm thinking I should get started from this week and during my hols.

how does this sound?

1x intervals session maybe 400/800m repeats @ target 5k pace say 4:50

- is that pace ok? how many repeats/rest

- do I need to do 1k repeats or can that wait?

1x tempo run @ 5:30

Walkedit · 17-04-2023 8:12am

So for today's easy miles I thought I'd conciously keep the pace a bit faster say about 6:30 after warning up and that would still be lo HR but It was off the charts!

fot the TT avg pace 5:07 avg HR 143

today avg pace 8:26 avg HR 156

I could see it passing 165 and started walking to bring it down. Maybe I'm getting something but that was unsettling, overnight resting HR still showing 39 which is typical for me.

Think I'll just watch that a few days before I try the speedwork!

Walkedit · 17-04-2023 8:15am

Apologies for so many posts, maybe I need a training log. Thinking of a good title!

(PS: well I couldn't really think of a great title so I went ahead anyway#, more ramblings here https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058292711/im-either-getting-better-or-worse-but-what-if-i-am-just-f-king-nuts/p1?new=1)

In other news, really excited to see how Boston unfolds today with Kipchoge

17-04-2023 5:33pm

Massive 23 minutes pb in Manchester yesterday. Usual happened at mile 23 and dropped a few mins off. I was on for about 3.33 but got moving again for 3:37. That's 3 done now and no urge to do another.

lulublue22 · 17-04-2023 6:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120488464#Comment_120488464

Well done that’s a fantastic pb you must be buzzing 😁

Lazare · 17-04-2023 7:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120488464#Comment_120488464

Get in there!!!

That's awesome. Huge congrats, a massive PB indeed 💪

Lazare · 17-04-2023 9:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120486277#Comment_120486277

I think the first thing to do is to imput your 5k time into this calculator https://runfastcoach.com/calc2/index.php

That will guide you on the correct pace ranges for various different workouts.

Then I couldn't recommend highly enough the 5k Grads plan https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LOkLQ_a9NHWe97yaRkfF6ArFmCHmtf9y1tU0LR7uMr8/edit#gid=2059597888

4:50 is about your Vo2max pace at the moment. While it's obv an important element of 5k training, as you'll see from the plan it's only a small part of the overall. So if you don't fancy the plan itself, do mix it up.

Walkedit · 17-04-2023 10:49pm

@Lazare that looks good. Given DCM is the target, will it work to say do the 5k plan May/Jun/Jul and a marathon plan Aug/Sept/Oct ?

Lazare · 18-04-2023 8:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120489763#Comment_120489763

I think maybe a late June, early to mid July 5k, giving yourself a couple of weeks of easy running between blocks.

A 12 week DCM block is fine, did that myself last year, but I like the idea of a couple of down weeks before beginning it.

You won't have time for that entire 5k plan, but that's fine, just work back. You're in a position to do that given you're a long term streaker.

Given you're (I'm assuming) intending to continue with the streak please do keep days that sandwich sessions absolutely gentle. Maybe no more than 20 mins v easy for the days after.

Walkedit · 18-04-2023 5:23pm

yea going with that. Will be planning on continuing the streak for the foreseable. Sub 25 here I come!

20-04-2023 10:01am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120489251#Comment_120489251

What speed do you do your hill reps on for this plan using that pace calculator. Also do I add my target 5k pace if say for example I'm trying to go under 20mins or current one.

Lazare · 21-04-2023 8:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120498289#Comment_120498289

For the 1 min hills you're thinking more about form than pace, back straight driving your quads, working glutes. The pace I guess should be in and around your 3k effort, Vo2max range.

As long as you're entering a relatively recent race time into the calculator your Aerobic Power (AP) should be in and around your 5k pace. There are plenty of AP workouts.

There are no tune up races in there but I would do one or two, parkrun obv ideal. That's where I would test out my goal pace.

21-04-2023 9:28am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120502370#Comment_120502370

I entered my marathon time and it seems ok. I entered my 5k pb from a few months back and it seems fast. Ap is 6:47-55. 7:06-14 for marathon pb. Shortest I've raced ever has been 10 miles

Lazare · 21-04-2023 12:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120502527#Comment_120502527

I'd suggest doing a fast parkrun, maybe next week, unless you're ready for such tomorrow.

That will certainly give you more accurate and specific numbers.

Crack on with the plan with the info you have though.

Lazare · 26-04-2023 7:07pm

@Pawwed Rig How's the week going for you?

All set for Sunday?

Hopefully no taper madness 😊

Pawwed Rig · 27-04-2023 11:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120524529#Comment_120524529

Just a bit of anxiety at this stage.

I did a couple of runs this week but very light stuff with a bit of cycling thrown in. I will do another short 30 min run tomorrow and on Sat will just jog down to parkrun (2.5k) to volunteer.

Gonna drive up on Sunday morning so it will be an early start. Wife will be exiled to spare room on Saturday night 🤣Once I start running I will be fine but I'll have nerves until then. Plan is to go with the 4 hr pacers for the whole thing.

I feel good and have hit all the runs on the training plan so prep has been perfect.

I will report back on Monday after I sober up a bit 👍🏾

Laineyfrecks · 27-04-2023 1:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120527155#Comment_120527155

Very best of luck to you, some nerves are good, they show you care! You have done the hard work now go run your victory lap & enjoy the beers after😁

Lazare · 27-04-2023 3:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120527155#Comment_120527155

Fantastic stuff PR. You'll smash it, you're so well prepared.

Believe believe believe, and don't let any doubts enter.

Can't wait to hear how you get on.

Murph_D · 28-04-2023 11:04pm

I'd probably be banishing myself to the spare room myself. So much easier, and so much better in so many ways. Good luck!

Lazare · 28-04-2023 11:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120534210#Comment_120534210

Depends on where the best mattress is. 😄

On that actually, and this may seem a little mad but put fresh bedsheets and a fresh duvet cover on the bed tomorrow. I did that by accident the night before DCM and while I was floating off to sleep in them I was wondering why I didn't think of it.

Pawwed Rig · 01-05-2023 3:17pm

TLDR I clocked 3:58:26 hitting my target for the run am delighted with that

Longer version The nature of the start line is that the Avenue in Stormont is a down hill and you can see the sea of athletes stretching out in front of you which is an impressive sight. The morning was overcast and muggy. It was raining on our drive up in the morning but the rain held off for the most part for the race. At 9 am I could see at the bottom of the hill the elite guys starting but it was nearly 5 mins later when I reached that point.

My plan start after the 4 hour pacers and reel them in over the first hour and then stick with them. The pacers were just interspersed throughout the crowd as there were no waves as such. I reckon they started about 90 seconds before me.

The plan didn't really work though as I had already caught them at the 3km mark. it was very congested around the pacers so I moved to a position 20m ahead of them and settled into the race. I kind of zoned out for 3 or 4 kms until I noticed more pacers up ahead that I seemed to be gaining on. When I looked over my shoulder I was about 300m ahead of the 4hr guys but couldn't make out the time on the banners anymore. At that point I noticed that the pacers ahead of me had 4:15 on their banners. I then started second guessing myself that it must have been the 4:30 pacers that I started with rather than the 4 hour so I pushed on a bit. I met a friend from my area at the 10k mark and mentioned it to him and he told me that the 4:15 pacers had started before the 4 hour guys for some reason. At this point the 4 hour pacers were too far behind for me to wait for them so I ran with my friend for a while. I was slightly concerned we were going a little too fast but felt comfortable so just kept pace with each other. At some point before the halfway mark I had lost him again.

Halfway point 1:55:56 so well within target.

At the 25k mark my left quadricep started hurting (which had never happened before) however I managed to keep my pace going. The sun was shining at this stage and I was losing lots of liquid. I was taking on water at every water stop but didn't feel like I was getting enough. I had taken my gels every 10km and had taken my 2 salt sachets at this point also and my wife had handed me a couple of bananas at different points around the course. By the 30km mark I was feeling tired but the 20-30k points were the uphill part of the course so I was hoping for some downhills to conserve energy which did come but didn't actually help much. I had still completed 33km at the 3 hour mark so was looking like a 3:50 or so finish time at that point if I could keep going.

At 35km I lost the will to live. My right quadricep was now also very sore. Given there was 5 miles to go at this point I knew I would finish the race and was fairly confident of getting under the 4 hr mark but my km times went off a cliff. I was literally dragging myself to the finish now. That 7-8km is probably the toughest thing I have ever done. Coming up to Ormeau Park in the last mile the 4hr pacers motored past me. I tried to stay with them but the legs weren't able and at that point I knew I would get in under 4 hours given that I had let them start before me. The finish line was the most welcome thing I have seen.

Conclusion

I enjoyed 80% of the run but the last 20% was incredibly tough.

What I would do differently?

Stay closer to the pacers next time
Take 2 bottles in the water stops if I need them
Be more aware of my pace early on (see 1 above)

Anyway delighted with myself for doing it. I achieved what I set out to do even if I made it a lot harder on myself than it needed to be. Some good lessons learnt without a huge downside.

Befast time.jpg

Lazare · 02-05-2023 12:08am

👏👏👏👏👏

Superb P, you smashed it.

Was waiting anxiously for you to post, so happy to read you nailed it.

That last 20% was tough but that's where you earned it. Be proud.

masterK · 02-05-2023 9:02am

Congrats PR, great achievement

MisterJinx · 05-05-2023 10:18am

My monthly update! Well the injury bus arrived and it's taken a little while to get off it...

After a track session in early April i had a pain on the insides of both my knees. After running on them for a few days I then took a few days off, one healed the other didn't. Went back again and after 3 days running I was limping so took another 4 days off, same result, had to call a halt for another few days while I was waiting to get to see the physio. While I was doing this on and off my calves which were giving me jip started to really act up and the right one in particular was basically locked below at the lowest areas of it leading into the achillies. So I generally felt battered and bruised!

I've been through 3 sessions at this stage and the knee is in a much better place, stilling wearing a jumpers brace and I'll be weened off of it in a few weeks. Right calf is still very tight and that's the one that needs to be managed. I can run thankfully however I'm perscribed off all speed work for the next 3 weeks (and i expect a little longer). So the Runner 5K is out for me (a kids activity also got in the way so MrsJinx will be doing it by herself) and we will see about the Bru Na Boinne 5K in June, although my expectations have to be lowered considerably.

So the bright side is I can still do base work and while the mileage has been lower than I wanted I've still been able to keep moving so I'll be building back up and hopfully in a few weeks time I'll be back to where i was at from an endurance perspective! This did all time in with what was always going to be a busy time for me at home so it's not the end of the world, I would have expected to struggle with the time I had available, onwards and upwards!

Lazare · 05-05-2023 8:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557640#Comment_120557640

Poxy stuff P, although your attitude to it is fantastic.

Good that you're on the other side of it somewhat in terms of being able to do some gentle base work.

I would seriously consider ditching the idea of the Bru Na Boinne 5k for now. It's a little soon at only 5 weeks away. I mean that in terms of tuning yourself up for it. 5k stuff is probably a little too intense right now.

Go and run it after a few weeks of easy running for sure. Get yourself back fully healthy.

MisterJinx · 05-05-2023 9:36pm

Thanks @Lazare there will be no 5k tuning up! I'll be doing base and just run the race rather than race the race! Really don't want to go backwards so I'll keep it all in check

masterK · 09-05-2023 12:49pm

A bit of an update from me.

It's less than 4 weeks now to the Cork marathon. The training has went pretty much to plan though I'm at that point now where I've had enough of it and just want to get to the big day.

Last week I did 90km in total which was easily my highest weekly total. That included a midweek 23k and 35k at the weekend. I kept the pace pretty slow for the 35k, it was actually the longest I've ever run without stopping to walk for a bit. I felt pretty Ok at the end of it which I was pleasantly surprised by.

I'd another decent achievement a couple of weeks back when I took over 3 minutes off my 10k PB in the Maynooth 10k. (I hadn't run 10k in ages so I'd sort of expected to take a good chunk off my previous.

This week is another tough week with around 90k to cover again, the 35k weekend run has a decent portion of it at MP so I'll really have a good idea of how I stand after that.

Lazare · 10-05-2023 11:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120574268#Comment_120574268

Excellent stuff masterK, fantastic mileage. Congrats on that whopper 10k pb too.

At this point what are you thinking is realistic for Cork?

masterK · 11-05-2023 10:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120581344#Comment_120581344

Cheers. My current thought process is to go out at around 3:50 pace and see how it goes. I've 3 goals in mind, sub 3:45 would be amazing, around 3:50ish would be pretty good and getting under the 4 hours would still be great as it would still be 20 minutes quicker than Dublin.

Lazare · 11-05-2023 1:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120582235#Comment_120582235

Brilliant.

Your LR this weekend should help cement that for you and hopefully give you confidence.

Remember though that MP will feel harder this weekend than it will on race day. So make sure you allow for that, in terms of your confidence.

MisterJinx · 27-05-2023 12:04am

Little update again! Last physio session done and I seem to be well on the mend. Knee brace is off and the calves and Achillies are in much better shape now 👌

I've been good keeping to easy pace and have built up each week with almost rigorous discipline for the last 5 weeks. I was able last week to add in 2x5 min tempo blocks and this week 15 mins over 3 blocks, nothing overly hard but great to get some of the other muscle groups going.

Last week was good at 66k for the week and the easy runs really started to feel easy with the legs just turning over, nice to get back to that!

This week is a step back week as I'd a work doo last night and family stuff over the weekend so planned to do a little less and take the recovery and go again next week.

Lazare · 27-05-2023 1:29pm

Fair play P, you're doing everything right.

Patience with it is so important and not something most of us have.

arknine · 29-05-2023 2:00pm

Ran my first marathon in Edinburgh yesterday - sharing the race report here as I was a longtime lurker over the past 7 months... any thoughts, feedback or comments on what I might improve??

Background

Just turned 50 this year (50M) and started running (again) in Oct’22 from a base of zero exercise for the past five years (excepting having 3 small boys (5,7,&9) and the hustle of daily life, family walks, family activities etc. In 2014 I did a C25k and between 2014-2017 started to run commute into work averaging about 10km per week over this period - (2014 - 900km; 2015 - 500km; 2016 - 650km; 2017 (jan-aug) - 500km). This culminated in a half-marathon race (Rock n Roll Dublin) in 2017 for which I didn’t follow a training plan but did a few longer runs of 13k(ish) and finished in c. 1:48 (ran out of steam at c.19k and had to run/walk a couple of times to finish). Before 2014 - there was no exercise/running/training/gym - I was relatively ‘active’ but no sports/activities to note.

In October last year (‘22), I decided to go for a run to see how it felt and surprised myself by running 7km @ 6:10/km pace. I enjoyed it, and decided to get back running with a vague aspiration to complete a marathon in my 50th year….

Training

… so I started training. Decided in November to book a bib in the Edinburgh marathon, figuring that 7 months should give me a decent enough training block. Avg went from 50km/week to 100km/week over this period.

Month-Distance-Avg Pace

Nov- 216km@6:16/km

Dec- 321km@6:07/km

Jan- 284km@5:26/km

Feb- 237km@5:25/km

Mar- 291km@5:19km

Apr- 412km@5:07/km

May- 305km@5:00/km

Didn’t follow a specific plan (per se), generally ran 5 or 6 days a week with one long run (5:00/km to 5:30/km), one medium/tempo type run (4:40/km to 5:00/km), three easy runs (5:20/km) and a sprinkling of ParkRuns.

I had no (observable) issues in stepping up the mileage over this period, two small injury niggles,one in Nov and one in Feb, and I rested with no reoccurrence of either. I self-diagnosed regularly occurring foot pain as a Mortons Neuroma (flared up after c.9km and could be run through - but painful) and went through a variety of shoe types to lessen the flare-ups. Settled on Altra’s and roomy footbox, which worked for me.

Parkrun (5k) times went from 25:26 (Oct’22) to 19:06 (May’22) over this period.

Other notable times -

10k times - avg sub-45mins on tempo/fast runs

Half-marathons - (did over 20 runs at this distance over the 7 months) ran x2 sub 1:40 and x1 sub 1:34 during the block (not races, just fast/tempo runs)

In Mar&Apr’23 I completed x5 long runs >30km (longest @33km) and a further x2 (27km & 29km) as part of the build up.

I trained with SIS gels and a water bottle filled with Tailwind mix during the long-runs and they settled ok, a little queasy but ok (I did all other runs (<27km) without nutrition or water)

The <1:35 half-marathon was the last fast/long run before the start of the taper (from 100km to 80km (wk1) to 55km (wk2) to 25km (wk3)).

Plan & Pre-race

All marathon time predictors (runalyze; metathon; crplots) had me at a 3:10 to 3:12 marathon time based on my strava logs - I felt this was optimistic (4:34/km) as I had a tendency to drift (pace & heartrate) on longer runs. Based on the half-marathon times in the training block I felt i could sustain close to that pace for maybe 30km - but >40km would be a push - so settled on the following plan for race day:

First 16km (10 miles) at 4:40/km, next 16km (10miles) at 4:50/km, last 10km to keep legs moving and hold-on to the finish. Goal A - was to run a sub 3:25.

Pre-race prep was unremarkable - flew to Scotland (from Dublin) on Friday evening - ate well Fri/Sat (lots of pasta, steak, bread) slept ok . Collected bib Saturday morning, pottered around the city for a couple of hours , rested the rest of the day.

Race day morning, grabbed a banana, coffee, croissant - had 500ml of tailwind c. 2 hours before start - greased myself up (sunscreen & anti-chafe), bathroom, checked bag, warmed-up (stretches/gentle jog). Fuelling plan for the race was a gel every 6km topped-up with Tailwind which I carried in a hand-held bottle. Weather was warm and overcast at the start (10am)

Race

Start was largely downhill for the first 8km, and I tried to keep the pace under control. Legs felt strong and were turning-over well. Despite best efforts, the combination of the downhill, first marathon excitement, over-confidence, other runners pace, me being an idiot, had the first 8km in c.4:35/km pace - which was faster than intended, but not wildly so. The course then hit the sea front and the breeze helped to take the edge off the pace and I settled into the target pace of 4:40/km (-ish) for the next 8km.

Took the gels at 6km, 12km and 18km and sipped from the hand-held bottle (tailwind) throughout. I grabbed a few gulps from the on-course water as I ran-by. Weather started to warm-up as the sun broke through the clouds.

Hit 16km feeling good - slightly ahead of target pace and the race-plan was to run the second 16km at an avg 4:50/km so I eased off a little to adjust to plan. Hit half marathon in 1:38ish which was ahead of plan, but I felt ok, knew I had completed a 1:34 half a few weeks back and the race-strategy was to target 4:50/km from 16k to 32k.

Then things changed at around 23/24k mark - legs started to lose some power which came as a surprise, I also started to feel a little nauseous. I skipped taking the planned gel at 24k as i felt i would be ill if i forced it down.

At 25k I just couldn’t hold a sub5:00/km pace at all. I recognised that I was in trouble and it was barely half-way through. Resolved to move to my long-run pace for the training block at 5:20/km and hoped this could see me through to the end. Took a gel at 30k and temperatures were getting warmer. Despite all the difficulties I hit 30k in 2:24 (avg. 4:50km) but i was weakening and getting worried.

When I reached 32k in the marathon I knew I was fucked, pace had slipped to 6:00/km, sun was beating down, other runners were struggling, and I started negotiating with myself to just. keep. running.

By 35k I had to start run/walking as my legs had completely gone. I was gutted but there was nothing left in the tank. Walking through the two water stations I could actually drink the bottles of water and was surprised at how thirsty/dehydrated I was. Pace times dropped off as I continued to run/walk for the next 5k. Nearing the end I gave it everything I had to run the final 2k.

Crossed the finish in 3:43

Post-Race

Disappointed I couldn't run the whole 42k but recognise sub 3:45 is an achievement for a 50year old (couch to marathon in 7 months).

Hard to rationalise what went wrong here - initial thoughts:

1). Over-fatigued / over-trained - despite feeling strong during training this was not actually the case - taper ineffective (??)

2). Target pace too aggressive - over-confident/ego/greedy - did not respect the distance - went out too fast

3). Fuelling/hydration was wrong - sweated too much -relied on tailwind - did not take enough water on-course - skipped gel at 24k

probably a combination of all of the above factors.....

Next Steps

i) Rest for a week or two ii) Start structured plan (Pfitz. 18/55 or 18/70 ??) for Dublin Marathon

Lazare · 29-05-2023 7:38pm

First of all congrats on what is incredibly impressive improvement over such a short time frame. Also, welcome to the thread (to anyone else lurking, please join in 🙂).

I can see a couple of issues. I think your race pace plan was flawed. I don't think it's a wise idea to plan a positive split. You can't 'bank time' over the marathon distance. You certainly did go out too fast and faced the all too common blow up.

I think though that the main and overriding reason was possibly running too fast on average in your build up.

Just basing that on your monthly average paces. Those preceeding three months shouldn't really see an increase to that degree, should be fairly static. That static average should certainly be slower I would suggest.

You certainly do have massive potential with the right approach.

I've just started delving into the Hanson method and I would highly recommend it.

Would also recommend dipping into the marathon improvers thread.

You ran a great debut marathon in terms of the clock. Take lessons from it to smash it in Dublin..

Whatever you do there though, don't go out too fast. Dublin will punish it.

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