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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Lol. That's some olympic level whataboutery there

    Combined with a complete non sequitur

    If you care about public services being ineffecient, then why don't you care about private sector funnelling thousands of additional euros from your bank account into their asset portfolio



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Oh, and Solar power in Australia has caused record low electricity prices this week

    https://www.pv-magazine.com/2023/04/28/solar-generation-high-sparks-record-lows-across-australias-energy-grid/



  • Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭Coolcormack1979


    All is going to happen with these abandoned bogs is that they are going to be turned into the biggest open dumps in Ireland .in mid tipp on the Kilkenny boarder the amount of rubbish illegally dumped is astonishing.fridges ,electrical items and the rest .



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    There will be more mature technologies by then to allow farmers to meet their targets. Electric farm machinery, supplements to reduce emissions from rumination, biogas fermenters, agriphotovoltaics, etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,779 ✭✭✭paddysdream


    How can you "repurpose" agriculture ?

    The entire purpose of agriculture is to grow food to feed people which is rather essential I would think.

    Subs are there for a reason,to support the production of foodstuff in the EU to ensure security of supply and to provide the EU with food at below the cost of production.

    Ukraine situation has brought it home to people that it doesn't take much to make something you took for granted as never ending can stop almost instantly.

    Trees and solar panels might be nice to look at but when you are hungry they are not high on the priority list.


    For those who believe we could/should import all our food then do you really think countries like Brazil are regulated anywhere near the extent of EU farmers ?Or that we should outsource the most essential thing for human survival ?

    I have followed this thread since the start and to be honest there are a few posters on here who are either on the wind up,seriously deluded or as an elderly neighbour might say "a wee bit hard of thinking ".



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,559 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    Prove that there won't be an unacceptable economic cost to transitioning to the Green's pipe dream with no evidence for such claims.

    This thread is riddled with ridiculously overpriced costs per MW for intermittent generation sources - and that's before we start paying them for over-supply / curtailment or include the necessary transmission infrastructure. You and your myopic green chums post endless links to random multi billion euro projects that may or may not build, demonstrate no coordination or common plan led approach and are likely to result in stranded or unusable assets. You selectively/conveniently overlook any post with a modicum of sense, especially ones proposing efficient, proven gas generation technology.

    Post edited by machiavellianme on


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,559 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    2021 and 2022 were record low payouts for REFIT. Why, you ask?

    Because renewable companies also received the highest recorded profits in their histories(and therefore weren't eligible for REFIT top ups). So much so, that the government recently had to cap the maximum price they can receive in the balancing market. However, unlike conventional generation who had increased operational costs (fuel, plant running costs etc), renewable companies had no such additional overheads so trousered the entirety. But somehow you don't find that interesting enough to note?



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    No no, you don't get to back out of your comment that easily. It's completely consistent logic. You were right the first time. We shouldn't worry about something that is completely inconsequential to the bigger picture. I'm with you on this one. Why care about something so small when the big players are continuing to pump more and more emissions out.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Your argument is that nothing we do matters because some other bigger agent is causing more harm. My argument is that we should oppose the system that allows all agents to get away with doing everyone harm

    This means putting our own house in order and putting restrictions on economic activity that causes more harm than good

    Your argument is a license for all harm to continue forever, mine is a framework to begin solving global problems piece by piece in a complex multinational effort.



  • Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭Kiteview


    It’s completely illogical not to tax car parking spaces provided by employers to employees.

    A car parking space is a free benefit provided by employers to car owning employees and Revenue classifies just about everything else that employers might provide to employees as taxable “benefit in kind” (with almost no exceptions).

    Why should a valuable benefit go untaxed when trivial ones would get hit without question?



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    demonstrate no coordination or common plan led approach

    It's literally called the climate action plan 🤷‍♂️

    The details on the actions are in the annex document to it which details hundreds of actions across all sectors.

    Incidentally Ireland’s Long-term Strategy on Greenhouse Gas Emissions Reduction document was just released which gives an outline of the emission reduction plans for the next 27 years across all sectors.

    If that's not coordination and a common plan led approach I don't know what is




  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    A tax on a parking space at a place of work in a place with no public transport options is just punishing people for going to work

    Instead of this, as a first measure, an incentive should be given, a tax relief for companies encourage who car pooling, or working from home, or give free public transport passes to employees should be a good starting point

    Public transport is a chicken and egg scenario. If it's not provided, nobody can use it, if it's not used, nobody can provide it.

    It takes a long term strategy to plan and implement public transport.not a blunt instrument like a tax on everyones parking space



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,559 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    Sure why not tax them for sitting on the chair at their desk too? Never miss an opportunity to tax the masses for something that they may not be able to avoid.

    Some employees are required to drive for work using their own car. Should they then be taxed for visiting the office?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    somehow you don't find that interesting enough to note?

    Oh dear, now you just look silly as its already been discussed ad nauseum in the thread

    here's the headlines

    REFIT will be hit with the windfall tax

    RESS has it built into the contract that excess profits due to fluctuations caused by the fossil fuel price instability will automatically go back to the exchequer.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,559 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    Its not remotely coordinated. Random numbers plucked out of ER's hole. Where's the coordination with the rest of Europe? The Greens plan to build 50GW of intermittent generation for a 10GW system. Where does the rest of it go? The UK don't want it (we already regularly import during High wind) and the EU bloc have their own ridiculous ambition in the North Sea. Zero coordination across the board. Just fanciful individual dreams with no hope of being realised due to global supply chain bottlenecks. But yeah, cling onto your CAP.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You're complaining about no coordination and then reference the recent summit held to scale up investment and coordination



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,559 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    What are you talking about? I didn't reference any summit but you can dream whatever you want (like your precious minister). Every EU country is proposing their own nonsense for years. There's zero coordination. If they happened to meet recently, there's not been any meaningful changes revealed. They're all in it for themselves. But it's just hot air, hot air for the sake of hot air. 80% of it will never build, just like every other round of RES-E.



  • Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭Kiteview


    A tax/charge on a free benefit provided by an employer to an employee is no more “punishing” the employee for going to work than the taxes levied on every other taxable “benefit in kind” is (just as the taxes levied on the salary provided by the employer to the employee isn’t a “punishment”).

    And so long as the free benefit goes untaxed/uncharged, there’s no incentive for anyone to provide any of the measures you suggest or improve the public transport. Introduce car parking fees at work (or a levy) and suddenly both the employer and the employees have good reason to want the public transport (or an employer minibus) service to be improved immediately (and more importantly to actually use it).



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    If an employer provides you a 'free' uniform that the employer requires you to wear, should you be taxed on it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    If there is a tax on parking spaces at work, the employer should pay it, not the employee



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,453 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Agriculture in Ireland needs to be, and will be, right sized.

    Yes, we need food and yes we need farms.

    But we dont need as many farms as we have and we dont need to produce the amounts of food we are producing and we dont need to subsidise every farm in existance across the country, forever.

    The environmental impact is of course going to lead to farm reduction in Ireland and across the globe.

    It does feel that some farmers feel the country owes them a living and that it is only just that we forever subsidise them. That has to end.

    No other industry would expect that special treatment and considering the disastrous impact on the climate caused by modern day farming, the industry really is in the crosshairs.

    To reiterate, we do need farms and there will always be good support for farmers, but i dont think anyone can reasonably argue that we are not over farmed in this country.

    We need to moderate and right size the industry, while promoting a positive environmental impact.



  • Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭Kiteview


    Mandatory uniforms are exempt from being taxed as “benefit in kind”. Also if memory serves me right, if you have to purchase your own (special) work clothes, you can offset the cost of those against income tax.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40 joggerjogger


    Because the main beneficiaries of free parking are civil servants the very ones that destroy your faith in the system

    Just wait it will be 'but the poor nurses' we must have free parking for your benefit 🙄nothing about advisors or consultants or greenies getting free parking



  • Registered Users Posts: 40 joggerjogger




  • Registered Users Posts: 40 joggerjogger


    You don't benefit financially from that you do from 'free' parking



  • Registered Users Posts: 40 joggerjogger


    They already are

    Those that don't can claim tax free subsistence



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Yes I know. So why is a parking space at a location with no public transport not the same as a uniform. The employe gets no personal benefit other than being able to attend work



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Your employer benefits from having their workers present

    Remember I also said employers should get tax relief for paying for free public transport or facilitating car pooling



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Most workers have free parking at work. Public Vs private sector is just a red herring

    The closer you get to a city centre the More likely parking is going to be expensive. But also avoidable



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    "The 'eye watering' as you call it, amounts of money spent on the irish language is a tiny fraction of the total government expenditure and you literally would not notice it in your tax bill if all that money was refunded in the morning


    On the other hand, private wealth controlled by the few thousand billionaires increased by about 6 trillion euros since the start of the pandemic.


    That works out as about a thousand euros per man woman and child on the planet, but significantly from people in the 'west' because our incomes are higher.


    A lot of this money is then being used to make your life worse, by pumping up asset prices, making your food, housing and energy bills much more expensive and unobtainable


    So, maybe spend less time worrying about the pittance spent on promoting Irish culture in Ireland, and focus a bit more on the billionaires who's collective wealth has increased by 70% in 3 years."

    Your words, not mine, and they say exactly what I referenced. We should spend less time worrying about the pittance that Ireland emits and focus on the largest polluters on the planet like China, USA, India, Brazil etc.

    I'll repeat this again because it needs to be repeated as often as possible. Reducing emissions to zero in Ireland makes absolutely NO difference to global emissions. It's a fraction of a percent at worst.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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