Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Criminal Justice (Incitement to Violence or Hatred and Hate Offences) Bill 2022 - Read OP

Options
12728303233143

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 33,329 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Again - i know.

    Unless you're saying he threatened to prosecute people before the law came in, this doesn't make any sense...?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl


    He said directly "Taken to Task" and after that directly hate speech. It's a threat to protesting. Regardless of the fact it may be a crime in the Future it's not currently. It's a direct threat. Can you imagine the Italian government Threatening Green protestors saying if you don't stop were going to make it illegal and there would be no issue ? I bring them up as there currently right wing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,329 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    'Taken to task' is not a synonym for prosecuting.

    This is not even close to evidence of or inclination to abuse.

    Good night.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Yeah. It literally is hopping up and down about...... nothing

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 978 ✭✭✭Palmach




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,363 ✭✭✭1800_Ladladlad


    The amendment from by PBP to include the UN Convention on Human Rights protections on Free Speech within the Hate Speech bill, has been defeated.

    As well as one to excise the section allowing for the prosecution of individuals possessing offensive material without communicating it.


    These were two amendments that would have made the law less extreme and yet were voted down.

    Several weeks ago Minister for Justice Simon Harris stated ‘Migration status’ may be added as a protected category under the law. So literally criminalizing those who oppose the government on migration. Instead of dealing with the out-of-control migrant system Ireland has, they want to simply criminalize Irish people for talking about the out-of-control migrant issue and everything that follows. It's almost as if the Government is changing draft laws on the fly depending on who they want to find guilty on a given day if this is the direction theyre going.





  • Registered Users Posts: 235 ✭✭Hodger


    i don,t agree with most of Paul Murphys political views but he got this right.


    When even PBP put amendments forward to make it less extreme and it gets voted down you know its gonna be a extreme law.




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭TooTired123


    I never used the word “woke”. I refer to it as “BE KIND!OR ELSE!!!…”

    Once you’ve got the hang of the tricky parts like ignoring basic biology and science in general, cancelling as “it never happened!” vast swathes of 20th century history and denying economic good sense, then its apparently quite easy to join in.

    Unfortunately I’m stuck with having to accept what I see before my very own eyes as fact as opposed to squinting at things through a prism of fantasy and I just can’t join in.

    You all don’t seem to be all that happy though, far from it. Such a lot of clearly hysterical young people crying into the camera on tik tok and Twitter. “The pharmacist made out my prescription in my dead name😭😭😭! My life is over!” That kind of thing. So I’m content enough to stay where I am right now.

    It seems to be turning a corner at the moment. We will just wait and see.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,389 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    You discuss the prism of fantasy but seemingly accept everything posted to TikTok as fact (which it ain’t)



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭TooTired123


    One way or the other tik tok is jam packed full of young people with the apparently now regulation uniform nose and lip piercings, heaving with misery ( whether genuine or not) because their cousins best friends sister misgendered them or the doctors receptionist called them Isaac instead of Isla.

    Look. Nearly all teenagers have always spent at least some time full of anguish. Some of my generation spent alot of time lying face down on the bed crying into a pillow while Morrissey cried his way through “I know it’s over” on the Walkman.

    But then your sister would come into the bedroom and ridicule you in the most cruel way and you’d be jolted back to reality. And you grew out of it, for the most part. Real life took over. Real life meant that you hardly ever got what you wanted and nobody gave a **** about how upset you were. Happy days.

    What you weren’t doing was recording yourself and putting it online for an audience of potential millions. For it to be reposted over and over again possibly for years to come. Returning over and over again to haunt you.

    Either these kids are genuinely suffering from serious mental health issues or they’re so starved of and craving attention that they put on these displays to attract some.

    Either way it’s quite worrying.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,764 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    It's not all over TikTok, you keep seeing it because you keep watching the videos which then results in more videos appearing for you, that's the way the algorithm works.

    Maybe stop watching videos of teenagers on social media.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,389 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Bebo wasn’t reality before neither is TikTok now. Least of all when there are charlatans around, state run troll farms and the whole thing is owned by the CCP



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    And the delusional "I can always tell" - we know that many many many times people who say that havent a breeze and very often identify trans women as cis women and cis women as trans women.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    This is pretty much it.

    What we're witnessing is a generation of self-absorbed narcissists who, given some leverage of power, seek to weaponize it and their secular religious-esque beliefs against the rest of society.

    This legislation is one of the latest manifestations of giving in to that utterly embarrassing level of self-absorption.

    I don't know about you, but I want to stay as far away from narcissistic self-absorbed people as possible. Nobody wants anything to do with people like that - whether they say it openly or not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭TooTired123


    I’m hoping it’s a short lived but demonic phenomenon. The level of savage backlash against, for example, Wild Youth this week, from such a wide sample of the general public, including members of the LGBTQ community, indicates that the craze is peaking, at least.

    Hopefully people will return to keeping their hopelessly misplaced feelings of being “extra special” and extra everything in fact well under wraps so the rest of us don’t feel that we have to agree with them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,772 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    I've a question. If I'm in possession of a meme that most people would consider offensive, would I be committing a crime under this new legislation?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    Hopefully people will return to keeping their hopelessly misplaced feelings of being “extra special” and extra everything in fact well under wraps so the rest of us don’t feel that we have to agree with them.

    Great discomfort, or outright societal collapse is the only way we'll see things flip in my opinion. The comforts of the modern world created the space for all this madness to rise, and when they go, in theory at least, the ideology should go too. Essentially we may have to destroy ourselves and build again to ever have a hope of normalcy again. It's nothing new either, most great civilizations failed not long after their strongest periods, when people got lazy and too comfortable, and forget what holds it all together, and we're in one of those periods now.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭TooTired123


    The collapse of the Roman Empire comes to mind. You make an excellent point. We can but hope.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Every member of the LGB community that I know is against this abject nonsense, but they daren't say so publicly because of the predictable and believable backlash. Everything you see on TV is either a front, lies, or activist mouthpieces who claim to speak on behalf of the majority.

    Just like Muslims are the first victims of Islamic extremism, ordinary LGB people (and women) are the first victims of the extremism that now demands they submit to the new orthodoxy.

    This legislation is censorship by stealth.

    Close down all avenues of debate, as they understand perfectly well that facts are not on their side. Ringfence the debate, stifle opposition voices, terrify the population with false accusations of hate, yet at the same time they claim to be the real victims here. Psychopathy right there.

    This is not how gay rights progressed. Minds were changed over time, arduously but eventually - not least because evidence and facts were on the side of gay rights.

    What we're seeing now is the precise opposite, nothing more than a secular crusade by ideological militants who will not accept anything other than complete submission. Does that ring a bell?

    Identity totalitarians, and nothing less besides.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭TooTired123


    Because it’s in the general nature of gay people to be kind, empathetic, sympathetic and welcoming, the trans activists attached themselves to the LGB community even though there’s no obvious connection between the two groups.

    I don’t want to be banned from this thread but it’s obvious now that this hasn’t worked out for the gay community and for that I’m very sorry.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Speaking as a member of that community, I can say that you're absolutely spot on.

    This legislation, by mere association, draws LGB people into a debate we want no part of.

    And with that comes ridicule, as well as an increased likelihood of actual hate crimes and attacks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,389 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    “LGB” community you mean the anti-trans segment of the LGBTQ community? We had a similar user peddle them before



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Heaven help me, but I may actually agree with Paul Murphy on something.

    A law that criminalises the mere possession of extremist or hateful material without it being published or disseminated is extremely bad law that everyone should have concerns about.

    For example, Mein Kampf is freely available in bookshops up and down the country. If one's homestead was searched, and a copy of said book was discovered, by the letter of the law, one would presume that the Gardai and DPP could if they were so minded push a case against an individual.

    A researcher, academic or journalist, working on terrorist or extremist organisations may as a matter of routine be in possession of what could be termed as hateful or extremist literature. Assurances from politicians that the DPP would be sound about it and not press charges willy-nilly is unconvincing and simply not good enough.

    Perhaps the unstated intention of that aspect of the proposed legislation is that if an individual is being prosecuted for more serious offences such as being a member of an extremist outfit or asssisting in the commissioning of other offences, and those more serious charges fail for whatever reason, they have a fallback charge to stick on the person. Still not good enough.

    Bad law, and a significant infringement of civil liberties. But then again, we live in a country where people have been convicted of being a member of an illegal organisation in the Special Criminal Court on the strength of having republican ephemera in their homestead and the opinion of a Gardai that they are a member.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭Augme



    I'd say there is an extremely obvious connection. Trans people are subject to the exact same abuse and prejudices that gay people had to go through for something they have no control over. Homosexuality isn't "normal". Children/teenagers should never be taught about homosexuality, they'll never understand it/it's not necessary/they don't need to know about it/we don't want to encourage them/homosexuality is a cult. Gay men can't be trusted around children, they need to segregated from them, shouldn't be allowed in changing rooms with children.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭TooTired123


    People living with disabilities could lay claim to having suffered a lot of these complaints too. But I don’t see them attaching themselves to the LGB cause. Why is that? LGB is a community for same sex attracted people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,412 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Please don't try to gatekeep the LGB community.



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra



    The idea that all lgb people are cisgender and that transgender people cant be lgb is frankly laughable drivel. The world doesnt work that way where everyone can be put neatly into your boxes.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,329 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Like the LGB community, the T community is mostly people who want to live their lives in as much comfort as possible without having to look over their shoulder - it's the extremists that give them a bad name. It's also gotten to the point where people are reading the T as trans-activists and therein lies the problem...

    Have you ever noticed how most of the extreme trans-activists aren't actually trans themsevles..?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 33,329 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Deleted.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



Advertisement