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Deceased English couple in Tipperary

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24

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  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    They told the post office they were going to France

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    We dont know it was suicide though. Thats speculation.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭TooTired123


    What’s the most likely scenario in your opinion. Based on all the evidence that we have heard about AND taking into consideration that the investigation has concluded that there was no suspicious circumstances.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,774 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Yep, but the postman would still be passing regularly. And junk mail etc. is often delivered to unoccupied houses.

    I'm not giving out about the postman. I'm just saying that if the person inside couldn't get out, a broken window would be noticed sooner rather than later, either by the postman or a neighbour.

    There was someone cutting the grass while they were dead inside. They could have tried to signal for help if they wanted to get out. My feeling is that they didn't want to get out.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    I wonder if both made the decision not to get out, or if one of the two made the decision for both of them not to get out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭walterking


    Why are you searching for someone to blame?

    I think I got less than half a dozen physical letters last year and being rural, I get very little junk mail.


    They kept to themselves, they intimated that they were moving away, they had no connection with the area.


    It's just one of those things.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,774 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    What makes you think I'm searching to blame anyone? I even said I wasn't blaming the postman. Here's exactly where I'm not blaming the postman, or anyone else for that matter.

    Yep, but the postman would still be passing regularly. And junk mail etc. is often delivered to unoccupied houses.


    I'm not giving out about the postman. I'm just saying that if the person inside couldn't get out, a broken window would be noticed sooner rather than later, either by the postman or a neighbour.

    I was originally replying to a post saying that there was glue in the locks and they couldn't get out. I was saying if they couldn't get out, they could have broken a window and signalled. The fact that they didn't break a window to signal for help leads me to believe they didn't want to get out. Or at least the one remaining person alive didn't want to get out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,774 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Whatever it was, it was preplanned for sure seeing as they told the neighbours/postman that the house was sold, they were going away etc. And the fact that they gave away their money.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,074 ✭✭✭Hangdogroad




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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,799 ✭✭✭hoodie6029




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭JMNolan


    It's some bizarre tale, I have a lot of questions...



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,818 ✭✭✭Northernlily


    Bizarre indeed. Lots of questions wow.

    Looks like they might have lost their minds in rural Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,799 ✭✭✭hoodie6029


    Sounds like they, Hilary anyway, were struggling with their mortality and failing health due to age. ‘Perfectly healthy before we came to Ireland’. She was in her late 60’s and Nicholas, just past 70 when they moved here. In 10 or 11 years, at that stage of your life, it wouldn’t be usual for your health to deteriorate.

    We will never know what happened. Nicholas could have passed away in his sleep and Hilary then gave up and starved herself to death.

    I think the wording of the article is very careful on purpose.

    ‘Although signed in both their names, the letter appears to have been written by Hillary Smith’

    ‘a two-line note was sent from his email’

    ‘On the same day, his email address was used to arrange a “MailMinder”’

    Nicholas may well have died in early December and at this point Hilary also decided to withdraw. Tragic and very sad way to end up.

    The last two paragraphs are very sad since she had to give up a child 60 years earlier.

    ‘At least one of the couple is likely to have still been alive on January 8, 2021. Gardaí discovered that a screenshot was taken that day on an Amazon Kindle found in their home.

    The screenshot appears to have been a passage from The Light Between Oceans, a novel by M.L. Stedman about a childless couple who found a baby girl in a washed up dinghy and decided to raise her as their own.’

    The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 835 ✭✭✭mazdamiatamx5


    Folie a deux. Not as rare as one might think.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folie_%C3%A0_deux

    Though granted wariness of the Irish health system is not entirely delusional and somewhat based on rational grounds tbh.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,706 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Nothing rational about being afraid the health system is going to kill you so deciding to beat them to it.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,799 ✭✭✭hoodie6029


    The Irish health system can be quite a shock for people used to the NHS their entire lives. I’m not sure what it is like in the UK or elsewhere but I have seen the tendency to infantilise the elderly here too.

    The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,384 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    The couple had lived in various places prior to coming to Ireland. When you are constantly moving there is a tendency to stay in the 'ex-pat' (not particularly English) community where friendships are quickly made, in the knowledge that it is an ever shifting community and you or they will move on. None of you have any family close by and people are relaxed about getting to know other people. Some life long friendships are made but inevitably you all end up in different countries so they are at best distant friendships.

    Presumably by the time they got back to England they found themselves at a loss as old friends and family were scattered, dead or lost touch, so they did what they had done all their lives and moved to another country. But of course there was no readymade community to move into, quite the opposite, rural Ireland, like rural communities everywhere, is made up of extended families and old, established relationships. People will greet you in the street and ask after you but they are fully occupied with their own lives, there is little room for an elderly couple.

    Meanwhile they were in poor health generally; from what I have seen and experienced the Irish health service is little different to the NHS these days. You are not going to find easy appointments with a friendly family doctor these days in the UK, the Irish service is somewhat better in that regard. However they only need to have had the misfortune to have one of the less interested GPs or met with an indifferent consultant - and we all know there are some doozies around - to get a very poor impression of care. The stress of looking after a terminally ill husband when she was likely not in great health herself, and an already lonely, depressed and possibly despairing outlook was just too much.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,706 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    No mention in that article about terminal illness, was it mentioned before? He died of cardiovascular illness according to the article (but of course could have had other conditions as well)

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,310 ✭✭✭santana75


    I find this whole story really sad and a depressing reflection on humanity. How can two people die in their own home and nobody notice for over a year? People look after their own family and maybe some very close friends, but thats as far as it extends. This phenomenon of people dying at home and not being discovered for years is becoming more and more common. I remember seeing a documentary about a woman in the uk who had been dead over 3 years before someone noticed. And the Irish healthcare system does treat the elderly like children, I've seen this happen, nurses talking to pensioners with disdain and a complete lack of respect. I know the other side of that is some patients can be absolute dickheads, but repaying evil with evil is not the answer. How can two people get to the point where they would rather die in their home than live? This world really is a wicked and evil place.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,877 ✭✭✭Princess Calla


    To be fair they told everyone that the house was sold and they were moving on.

    No one expected to see them.

    Some couples are very co dependent on each other and can't/doesn't want to live without the other.

    In this case it seems very much a planned endeavour.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,160 ✭✭✭jelutong


    The NHS isn’t all it’s cracked up to these days.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭NSAman


    Hillary wasn’t wrong with the discussion of the health service in Ireland.

    seeing and hearing about my mothers experience is utterly depressing and shocking. Although I live in the States, Ihave to contact friends for help in Ireland for her care. With a heart issue she was just given an appointment for 2025..she’s 86 Ffs!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    They were blow ins , local stock wouldn’t be interested



  • Registered Users Posts: 123 ✭✭Tavrin Callas


    I remember seeing a documentary about a woman in the uk who had been dead over 3 years before someone noticed.

    I presume you're thinking of Joyce Vincent which was a desperately sad case. The documentary was Dreams of a Life. A slightly different situation to the Tipperary one as the couple in Tipperary seemed to have engineered the situation so that they wouldn't be found - telling people they were moving to France, stopping their post and utilities, etc. Poor Joyce just died, and nobody noticed. I often think about that case and of others who might end up in a similar situation. 😞

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joyce_Vincent



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,774 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    They told people they were moving to France so why would local people be concerned when they didn't see them around any more?

    The world isn't responsible for the deaths of these two people. One or both of them are responsible for their own deaths. That may sound very harsh, but that's the reality.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,706 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    It's really not.

    They chose to cut themselves off from everyone else, including their own children.

    You can't make people be sociable or interact with others, it was their choice.

    They actively lied to neighbours, postman etc. that they were going away. They went to some lengths to ensure that people would not be inquiring after them.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,573 ✭✭✭✭For Forks Sake


    No evidence was produced at the inquest to suggest the couple received anything other than competent healthcare in Ireland.

    Also everyone seems to be ignoring the conspiracy-spouting elephant in the room

    Mrs Smith also praised Dr Vernon Coleman, an English former general practitioner and conspiracy theorist, who controversially claimed the person most likely to kill someone is their doctor. She described him as “a courageous man” who “saw what so many missed”.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,918 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Any why do you think they did that?

    What sort of welcome do you think they received from the locals when they moved in?



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