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Media silence over Niall Collins story

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  • Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭72sheep


    FFG arrogantly assumed they could refuse to acknowledge the story. Our ever-supplicant msm first coordinated to ignore, and then in unison condescendingly acknowledged "a small story". This only supercharged the story and so now they're all furious. We can look forward to a summer of temper-tantrums from our public servants and msm, LOL!

    I hope all you - "populist", "right-wing", "sinister", "chilling" - normal Irish citizens are proud of yourselves :-)



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,476 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I think "really unethical" is overegging it somewhat.

    He didn't make a point of recusing himself from a seconded motion that was passing unanimously without a vote. He probably should have, but he didn't even actively vote. He just didn't go out of his way to say that he was abstaining from a unanimous approval.

    I'd put it firmly in the "bit stupid" bucket and that's about it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,660 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    You may think it's over-egging, but this country suffers from quite a lot of corruption. I, like others would really like to stamp it out, before it starts. Many, many people have said he should have recused himself.

    What I don't like is the assertion that he did nothing wrong. As I've said before, if you think he did nothing wrong, that says more about you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Jarhead_Tendler


    This is Ireland it will blow over just like nursing home story.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,476 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    but this country suffers from quite a lot of corruption

    This is the main issue - no it doesn't. It categorically does not. It has some, and that corruption should be aggressively tackled, but Ireland is not a particularly corrupt country. Some people are obsessed with Ireland being more corrupt than it actually is.

    He should have recused himself, but it wasn't even a vote. We are basically taking a man to task for not making a completely irrelevant show of saying he was recusing himself from a motion that was being nodded through.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,660 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    Yes it does though.

    Maybe not compared to some hell hole, but yes we are corrupt and have been for quite a while.

    I never understood how councillors, TD's etc are somehow above normal work rules, like unvouched expenses, getting involved in planning deals that they're not officially connected to, writing letters to judges for rapists etc.

    It's all legal, but it is all objectionable.

    I'm done with this thread unless something new comes up. No corruption should be accepted. No "turning a blind eye" etc. I'm not surprised the man has so many defenders tbh. Lax following of rules in Ireland is absolutely rife.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,476 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl



    Ah yes, we are less corrupt than hell holes like Estonia, Belgium and France but that's not good enough.

    Again, any corruption should be rooted out, but there is an obsession that Ireland is a particularly corrupt country that is not backed up by anything.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Jarhead_Tendler


    How can you measure corruption when it is not often tackled? Look at the Mahon tribunal even when it is tackled nothing comes of it. One of the main protagonists will be our president in a few years



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,846 ✭✭✭BENDYBINN


    Agree, Mary loo mixing with the criminals is seriously worrying also….corruption everywhere..



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    I dont believe he did anything legally wrong. I think his actions are morally wrong.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    SF have been playing a blinder in the last few weeks by not touching this story. Mary Lou then came out during the week saying she loves the EU project, and what it has done for Ireland.

    It might annoy the youth branch and the auld branch, but political parties need to change.



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Yeah

    A) Its a move away from SFs usual permanent agressive outrage

    B) Its a softer approach to appeal to middle classes and FF voters

    C) Very much about leaving the door open for FF joining SF in next government

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 277 ✭✭Guildenstern


    It all gets accepted and then becomes the norm. Time moves on and it's presented as less important. More recent news becomes more relevant. Before long, apologists use arguments such as 'that's so long ago now, don't rake up the past'.

    My big concern is that out there in the real world, the cute hoors I have come across have thrived on this lax regulation and control, so again fair play to The Ditch for highlighting these shenanigans.

    We are still very much on a journey to get our political class to act in our best interests, not their own self interest.

    Post edited by Guildenstern on


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,409 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Not sure if this has been mentioned already, Gavin Reilly just covered this topic on his Sunday Newstalk programme. There has been criticism of the mainstream media not covering the Ditches allegations against politicians. He said that if there is a suspicion that the allegations may be found to be defamatory, then other media outlets who draw attention to the article may also be found to have defamed the subject of the article. So they themselves have to check the accuracy and legality of the allegations before referring to them, and if they are uncertain that they are accurate, then they will not refer to them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 277 ✭✭Guildenstern


    In litigation conscious Ireland that's really not a surprise to hear. Better to play safe.

    It does help those with something to hide though.

    One must assume The Ditch have also undertaken their own checks prior to publication.

    Has anyone made any attempt to seek redress of The Ditch on top of just threatening legal action?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,545 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    Redress? It's not like RTE or the Irish Times with their large companies & staff to pay every week, you cant take the knickers off a bare ass!



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,625 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    The first thing you hear from politicians when The Ditch or other publications do something like this, is that they can't comment because it's with their solicitors. All the time and each time they haven't sued it just a threat that works on MSM but isnt working on the Ditch. We had it with Varadkar leaking the confidential documents, same with Troy but that soon died, English I think went quietly and I am sure there are more. The thing is if it was untrue then the politicians would sue but they don't because it is true and also because if they go to court it will be in the news. If what was reported either with the council meetings or the planning permissions for Collins House was untrue he would have been to the courts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,409 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    You are missing one other scenario, what’s the point in suing if there is little hope of even covering the costs of the litigation? It just keeps the story going with little hope of anything other than massive solicitors fees. Even if he won, the story is still out there and a retraction is worthless.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    This lad from the Ditch on Radio One is digging a huge hole for himself. Shambolic stuff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭72sheep


    Yeah but our (disgraceful) defamation laws don't explain how one tiny website has been able to uncover so much and the entirety of the msm so little. The dogs on the street knew ABP was riddled with "best practices" and yet RTE/IT/Indo/... did not manage to catch a whiff of anything ever, never, ever, hmm..... msm will need to work harder on their excuses :-)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,409 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    What they uncovered may not necessarily be the truth, or it may be presented in such a way to allege wrongdoing where non exists. It is not a disgrace for each citizen to be entitled to their good name, I doubt you would appreciate being on the receiving end of an article which may not accurately reflect your behaviour. Whether Collins did anything wrong is not clear cut, so other media outlets are quite rightly being careful about what they publish.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,170 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    They seem to report some truths wrapped up in some lies which is really dangerous, imo.



  • Registered Users Posts: 456 ✭✭Sono Topolino


    I listened back and it didn’t seem that bad. He stumbled a little in answering the funding and opinion/bias questions but I don’t think the interview will change anyone’s opinions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,128 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Martin getting it from all sides this weekend for using Dail privilege against the Ditch and getting many things wrong. The man is a fool.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭72sheep


    Alleging "wrongdoing where non exists" did not cause the DPP to bring criminal charges against the ABP Deputy, the ABP Chairman to retire, Troy to become an undeclared property magnate... But you're probably right, we should instead continue to let the msm hold these these hardworking decent public servants to account. Anyhow just look at all the bountiful housing they have provided for us - ROFL!!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Yes. And that is why mainstream media didnt report on it until Niall Collins made a statement.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,409 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    You understand the difference between an allegation and a fact? So far there is nothing in the allegations made by the Ditch in relation to Niall Colllins which indicates illegality. He voted at commitee level for the lands to be forwarded to the Council for consideration to place on the market. The Council voted, and the lands were placed on the market, open to any bidder, after he had left the Council to become a TD. Multiple bids were received from different bidders and the auctioneer tasked with marketing the lands informed the Council of the bids, and it was sold to the highest bidder, who also happened to be Collin’s wife. At the time he voted at the commitee stage, neither he, nor his wife had any pecuniary interest in the land, and anyone one else with a higher bid could have bought it.

    Now, if you see that as being in a similar vein to the wrongdoing in ABP, then it is a good job you aren’t editor of any of the main stream media, because your legal department would be busy if you made defamatory allegations.

    The media has a very important function in society, they are there to push the boundaries to get to the truth, their job is also to be sure about what they are publishing as it can lead nitwits to jump to unfounded conclusions if they publish any aul shiiite that comes their way. They have a responsibility to check the accuracy of the claims, and avoid defaming anyone.

    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/junior-minister-niall-collins-insists-in-dail-statement-he-did-not-break-law-over-land-sale/a518478168.html



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Indeed. I think The Ditch ran with an allegation that Collins actions were illegal. At least mainstream wouldnt make such a sloppy claim.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,330 ✭✭✭✭Overheal




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  • Registered Users Posts: 86,093 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    Again if Collins did nothing wrong why not take questions from opposition in The Dail, Meehole's deflection has made more spotlight imho on Collins and now Paul Murphy is wanting Sipo to investigate

    Why the council redacted letters with name changes?



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