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Council tenants allowed rent out rooms for up to €14,000 a year tax-free

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭DubCount


    I agree with a lot of that. However we are talking about council housing here. These are properties that belong to the state that are being provided for very low contributions from the tenants. If there is excess capacity, that should be used - but not by enriching social tenants. If there is excess capacity in social housing, the state should be filling that and collecting any rents for the benefit of the state.

    There is something uncomfortable about Joe and Jane Taxpayer providing social housing and then allowing the recipients of that social housing charge rents tax free to other citizens who may have too high an income to be eligible for social housing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,538 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    You would be amazed at the amount of social tenants who brag and tell others how they played the system.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users Posts: 277 ✭✭Guildenstern


    Always ignored by the lefties as well but not that uncommon at all, and entirely familiar to those with a working class background. A fair few of the neighbours were doing this where we grew up. A scam indeed.

    Not begrudgery at all. Social housing is now becoming a cherished resort. We need audits of who is living there. Everyone should pay their fair share.



  • Registered Users Posts: 491 ✭✭SwimClub


    That's exactly how he heard, came up when they were talking about marriage and from what he said they saw little wrong with it, just maximising the system.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,836 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    I take your point but how would the State manage a system like that ?

    Would some official decide who would be sent around to share the family home of people in social housing ?

    A stranger deciding which stranger you must share with.

    By the time all the objections were sorted out the game wouldn't be worth the candle.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭riddles


    The renter of said rooms will need to ensure the alarm or shower doesn't wake the landlord \ landlady in this case as they depart for work!



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,966 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    It is absolutely an ethically bankrupt proposal.

    Although I don't much like the alternatives, it's the likes of this that makes you want to see this government out on it's ear.

    Re elect a new one and this time, maybe whatever coalition is thrown up, they'll be servants of the public.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,366 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    You don't have to get worked up to discuss something. I post in many threads on a daily basis without getting in any way worked up.

    Plenty of things have the potential to put people in accommodation but are not allowed, Back garden apartments for example would be one but you would not get planning for them. This was put forward by Mattie McGrath recently.

    You are correct that it has potential to place some people (I wouldn't say too many) in accommodation but it would be a very precarious arrangement given the nature of rent a room scheme. Also as others have posted it would be wide open to fraudulent claims, profiteering and coercion.

    From an optical perspective it would be obscene where a tax payer that cannot afford their own property has to house share with someone they are subsidising via their direct tax payment and further subsidising now via rental payment essentially enriching council tenants. From my example above say the guy on 50K salary with a council house got a tenant of the same income. Can you not see the inequity there where one suddenly earns an effective income of more than twice his counterpart and has all of the power in the LL/licensee relationship? The basic tenets of a republic are fairness and equity. Doing something like what is suggested is wrong on so many levels and is a further kick in the nuts to those who actually worked their holes off saving and saving for somewhere to live. It will further incentivise doing as little as possible in life.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia


    Max they ever pay is 15% of the household income. Its 12% of the principal earner's income and I think most just pay that. 12% of the NET and DECLARED INCOME.

    Easy street. Great deal.


    And now 14,000 a year up for grabs tax free, no increase in rent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,342 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Interestingly that means that 28k council houses are currently under utilised. In other words if we moved people around into accommodation that was sized to their actual need, we could free up a lot of capacity.

    The issue here though is cultural. People in council housing expect that they have permanent tenure and that they cannot be moved. That mindset should never have been allowed to form.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,616 ✭✭✭maninasia


    A good wedge of these people are already BETTER OFF not LESS WELL OFF as their costs are mostly covered by the state including the biggest one which is housing (max of 15% of their net income ever being paid for it).



  • Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭Lionel Fusco


    This is based on the lazy assumption that social housing tenants don't work when in fact most do. Secondly all LL/licensee arrangements are fundamentally inequitable your problem with this arrangement is that someone of a perceived lower social status will have the upper hand over someone with a perceived higher social status.

    This arrangement is no more inequitable than the standard mom & pop landlord arrangement that this country appears to be so fond off where said mom & pop go to the bank get a loan use the banks money to buy property then use the rent to pay off mortgage and achieve a nice profit, then when mortgage is paid sell the asset that the tenant paid for at a nice profit. One is seen as a parasite and the other as an entrepreneur.



  • Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭Lionel Fusco


    Why don't you apply to your local council for this great deal so?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,887 ✭✭✭Jizique


    The regular worker is probably renting from a landlord so does not have this option



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,150 ✭✭✭Quitelife


    If they have excess Rooms in theire House they should be moved to a smaller unit like is done in the UK ...not a free house ( bar token rent ) for life



  • Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭Lionel Fusco


    Except of course there are no smaller units to move them to.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,644 ✭✭✭RichardAnd



    Only one thing will fix the housing crisis, and that is an external crisis that remove the state's ability to continue interfering in the housing market. No other party has a policy that greatly differs, and there are legions of unelected civil servants who do not change from election to election.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,529 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    This thread has had a vast amount of reports, which I don't have to time to go through all of (other mods may get to them before I do).

    Random jokes/jibes about people in social housing being unemployed are pointless and not to be posted.

    There is an equivalent thread in CA if you wish to post somewhere with lighter moderation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,209 ✭✭✭Viscount Aggro


    2046 per month nett, plus the xmas bonus.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭sondagefaux


    The Rent a Room scheme has been in place for years, I'm not sure why the existence of a Revenue scheme that's been in place since 2001 has suddenly become 'news'. Or is it the council tenant angle?

    "The scheme was introduced in 2001 in an effort to increase the quantity of accommodation available for tenants. It also aims to encourage property owners to declare their rental income to Revenue so tenants can keep their rent relief forms up to date."

    https://eldron.ie/rent-room-ireland/

    Any homeowner (subject to approval of mortgage lender if they have a mortgage) can take in lodgers and get paid rent of up to €14,000 tax-free per year. Short-term lets (eg: AirBnB etc) aren't covered by the scheme.

    Any tenant, whether renting from a private landlord or a local authority, housing association etc, can also take in lodgers and get paid rent of up to €14,000 tax-free per year, as long as their landlord approves. Again, short-term lets aren't covered by the scheme.

    What else is news to some people? "Italian explorer 'discovers' new continent across Atlantic in attempt to travel to the Far East"

    If the 'news' is that some councils have now decided to allow their tenants to rent out rooms, what do ye expect when rents are through the roof, homelessness is at record levels, there have been feck-all local authority houses or flats built in large numbers for decades*, and a severe shortage of affordable accommodation, either to buy or rent, is one of the most pressing issues facing Ireland, all while we have a government that would sooner cut their own throats than do anything that seriously disrupts the ability of landlords to coin it in?

    Isn't anything that increases available rental accommodation a good thing?

    *https://www.ucd.ie/geary/static/publications/workingpapers/gearywp201901.pdf

    'Financing the Golden Age of Irish Social Housing, 1932-1956 (and the dark ages which followed)'

    "The period from the early 1930s to mid-1950s was the golden age of social housing in the Republic of Ireland. During these three decades social housing accounted for 55 per cent of all new housing built and the proportion of Irish households accommodated in this sector increased to an all-time high of 18.6 per cent by 1961. Unlike the rest of Western Europe the expansion of Ireland’s social housing sector did not coincide with a golden age of welfare state expansion. Indeed the Ireland’s social housing sector began to stagnate and contract just as its welfare state commenced a late blossoming in the 1970s. This paper looks to financing arrangements to shed light on these atypical patterns of social housing sector expansion and contraction. The argument offered here is that initially the arrangements used to fund social housing in Ireland were very similar to those used in the other Western European countries which constructed large social housing sectors during the twentieth century. However, as this century wore on, the influence of the socio-political pressures which has constrained the growth of the wider Irish welfare state came to bear on the model used to fund social housing and precipitated the end of its golden age."

    "Social housing output accounted for 31 per cent of total housing output during the 1960s and its share of output continued to contract steadily during the decades which followed to 10.8 per cent of output by the 2000s (Department of Housing Planning and Local Government, various years; Department of Local Government, various years). Partially for this reason, the proportion of households accommodated in social housing has declined steadily since the 1960s to 9.7 per cent by 2016 (Central Statistics Office, various years)."

    Nothing like as high a proportion of social housing has been built since the late 1950s.

    The abolition of domestic rates (a form of local property taxation, scrapped under Jack Lynch's FF government in 1978), and the sell-off of council housing stock under various right-to-buy schemes (introduced in Ireland long before Thatcher turbo-charged it in Britain) both massively reduced local authority revenues, so they couldn't afford to borrow or pay off loans to improve/increase local authority housing stock.

    Decades on, Ireland is paying the price with sky-high rents and record levels of homelessness.

    And yet this minimal response, which won't hurt, but is still clearly inadequate to significantly increase the supply of rental accommodation, is met with howls of outrage from people who have no clue about how or why Ireland ended up with its current housing crisis.

    Wouldn't it be great if once in a while people got their information from well-researched and detailed sources instead of the shock-jock, click-bait purveyors of crap (the Indo/Sindo are among the worst offenders) that infest Ireland's meeja?

    If it wasn't for gobshites like these supporting the sell-off of state assets, including local authority houses, in previous decades, for short-term gain (and increasingly obviously these days, long-term pain) Ireland wouldn't be facing a housing crisis anywhere near as severe as the current crisis.

    All credit to those posters here who have fallen hook, line and sinker for the outrage or are just outraged on their own initiative.

    If you vote, please stop: give people with some sense and discernment a chance to vote in a decent government at the next general election. When it comes to building houses, let's get back to the 1950s baby!



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 22,366 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Did you even read my posts? My example is based on a council house tenant with an income of 50K per annum. 🙈

    Even in the post you quoted I had written "the guy on 50K salary with a council house" 😆

    I agree that rent a room scheme is inequitable in general however "Mom and Pop" rent a room schemes aren't being subsidised twice by the tenants.

    I purposely used an example where neither person had the higher social status so I don't know where you are getting that from either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭ApeEvolved


    You couldnt make it up.

    Soon many people will realize they are better off just not working.



  • Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭Juran


    It gives a very poor message to all those who have worked hard to buy their own home, to all those currently working who cant afford a home due to the high monthly rent/high cost of housing, and to all the young people, either studying/training or newly graduated with aspirations to make a life in Ireland.

    It gives a great message to all non-EU economic migrants who plan to claim asylum in this land of milk and honey.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,140 ✭✭✭screamer


    may as well be a commie country at this stage, just a stupid government, and with SF incoming expect even more stupid Robin Hood policies to impoverish the worker for the wasters gain



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,538 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    You have made that assertion twice now and haven't backed it up, so it's just a make up your own facts day for you. For the purpose of the thread, it matters little whether a council tenant has a job, but you've laboured the point heavily and I would like to know where you are getting your information. The fact that about two thirds of DCC tenancies are in arrears would suggest you are wrong, as the low rents are very manageable for anyone with even a low paid job.

    The Mom & Pop LL get a mortgage because they have good credit and the banks are willing to lend to them. They have good credit and good standing for good reason.....they have earned it. They also take on the full risk of the property. You may have heard that some tenants decide to stop paying rent and it can take years to get them out without ever having the unpaid rent recovered. If the asset is paid off after decades of risk, the sale of the asset is in my opinion a relief rather than a reward. A LL I would never want to be in this joke of a country.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭sondagefaux


    Via Ronan Lyons on Twitter.

    Unless and until housing construction rates increase (which is clearly not going to happen if this government is re-elected), even this fairly lame effort to increase the availability of rental accommodation is better than nothing.



  • Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Council tenancies are only "inheritable" by adult children, if they

    (a) were on the original tenancy list and declared for rent purposes / no arrears owing.

    (b) their income does not exceed the limit to qualify for social housing and

    (c) they / their family meets the criteria for the unit size.

    We've been through this process with a family member in the last two years. Family member lived with elderly parent. Parent died. Adult child applied to take over tenancy. They qualified for social housing on income criteria, but has no children or partner, so was not approved to inherit the tenancy of the family home due to unit size. Instead, they were granted "leave to remain" until a smaller unit could be allocated. About six months later, they were offered a one bed apartment.

    They are now very happy in their new, much cheaper to heat, clean and maintain one bed unit, and a new family have been allocated and moved into the former family home.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    I know of three cases where the adult children are living in 3 bed houses in SCD and the parents have either died, or moved off (2 cases, one moved abroad), leaving only one adult "child" in the house. There is a big difference between what should happen and what actually happens due to the incompetence of the council and their staff.



  • Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Well, I can't comment on those cases, as I don't know the family's involved.

    It may be that they never actually applied to take over as lead tenants, or declared the lead tenant deceased and just continued paying the full rent, which I suspect may be what happens in a lot of cases. Or like my family member they've been granted "leave to remain". If they met criteria 1 and 2 above, the council can't move them until they have an alternative to offer them.

    One of my neighbour's a couple of doors away is in a council owned 2 bedroom house. His partner died last year and he has also been informed that the council intend to move him to a one bed unit as soon as possible.

    So it is happening.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    One of the primary reasons fg doing so bad in the polls. The workers now renting from the unemployed.... People earning over the pittance of 40k, losing over half their income over that pittance, to pay for free luxury housing and the world's most generous welfare state...



This discussion has been closed.
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