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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,055 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Plug in Hybrid vehicles should be banned. They are a total monorail. Having driven a few models, typically Petrol from 1.2 to 2.0 litres + batteries, the tiny electric range afforded by the separately charged e-drive is so impractical and the extra weight of carrying it so punitive on the petrol engine that the effective fuel economy is effectively 10 l/100kms, which is crap. And that's before the separate cost of charging your electric drive.

    So, either buy a modern petrol mated to a nice light car, or buy an EV, or buy the newer offering available on some models from Nissan and Mazda, where a small petrol motors acts purely as a constant generator for an electric drive and is hence extremely efficient while being flexible.

    But don't be fooled by a PHEV.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Any kind of a hybrid is a cod. They offer the worst of both with little of the benefits of either



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,154 ✭✭✭opinionated3


    Don't have extensive knowledge of phev's but a friend of mine has just bought a plug in hybrid three weeks ago. So far he absolutely loves it. Drives to work five day's a week, a round trip of about 58 Kms. Does multiple short trips around his local town bringing his elderly mother to places. Reckons he's definitely saving money on fuel Vs his previous diesel model. Btw very little suitable public transport in his area.

    Just another opinion on these cars.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,235 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    A cod like the entire green agenda in general?

    Anything with the green stamp on it is little more than financially interested groups manipulating the gullible. Doesn't take much digging to see most green initiatives are environmentally worse but may have better optics. "Screw all those in South America, people need to see me here driving my EV"



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Sold the car years ago. Walking, bike and PT for 99% of my trips and GoCar for the handful of times when the other modes aren't suitable.

    Best decision ever, never been healthier and saved a fortune.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    More public transport development, this time on the East Coast

    Four bus routes to be enhanced as part of 'East Coast Commuter Corridor'

    Route 101 from Drogheda to Busáras, via Dublin Airport, will become a full 24-hour service with 293 departures each way per week. The new buses on this route will be both double- and single-decker vehicles.

    Route 101x from Drogheda to Wilton Terrace in Dublin, via Balbriggan, will have services operated on a greater number of accessible single- and double-decker buses in response to increased passenger demand. The frequency of the route will stay the same.

    Route 133 from Wicklow town to Busáras via Ashford will be rerouted so it will no longer serve Bray, which Bus Éireann and the NTA say will improve punctuality and reliability. Route 133 will now have 143 departures each way per week.

    The route has been consolidated so that the former 133B, 133L and 133X routes will cease.

    A new service, route 131, will instead travel between Bray and Wicklow town, the first such bus service on that route. It will have 112 departures each way per week and will connect passengers with the Dart via Bray station.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,391 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Hard to believe, but 25 years ago, when going to college, some of the 133 departures had 2 buses, one that went to Dublin and one that went to Bray. You had to change in Kilmac if you were on the wrong bus. Maybe the passing of time has clouded some of the minds in their press department.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Ya do know that petrol market share is growing right?

    Market share 2022 vs. 2023

    Petrol 27.04%, 32.85%

    Diesel 25.83%, 22.34%

    Hybrid 24.56%, 17.44%

    Electric 12.51%, 16.66%

    Plug-In Hybrid 7.56%, 7.9%



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,185 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Yeah.. Bray & Wicklow at most. Look at the rest of Wicklow - essentially a no mans land for public transport between the M11 and the M9. And that's a big area.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,055 ✭✭✭patnor1011




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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    I've a 14 year old diesel that hasn't owed me a penny in years and served me well. I'm currently looking to upgrade and it's petrol all the way for me. Unfortunately, the market is still small enough here but thankfully out brethren up north have access to a larger market and it makes the decision a lot easier.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    My petrol car is as green as I ever plan to get, if I can help it. Large, comfortable and fantastically boring family saloon, Octavia 3-cylinder 1.0 litre turbo automatic, 50 mpg with the air con running, in the lowest CO2 category. It's all I want in a car: gets reliably from A to B, with decent entertainment spec (touch screen / Android Auto for my anti-Green pro-nuke energy podcasts). Beats the hell out of burning Brazilian woodchips to generate electricity to power a massive Chinese-made lithium battery and still having to live with range anxiety (if you can even charge it after the Green's have decimated our grid infrastructure).



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    Surprise surprise, most people (who aren't self-flagellating Green puritans) are prepared to be eco-friendly up to a certain price point. Also not surprisingly, more people support walking and cycling in warm countries than in cold damp ones. From the Business Post ESG report:

    Many Europeans want climate action – but less so if it changes their lifestyle, shows poll

    A seven-country YouGov survey covering UK, France, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Spain and Italy, reveals that individual views on climate change depend on the impact on their lifestyle.

    Measures entailing no great lifestyle sacrifice were popular, with between 45% (Germany) and 72% (Spain) backing government tree-planting programmes and 60% (Spain) and 77% (UK) saying they would grow more plants themselves or were doing so already. Between 40% (Denmark) and 56% (UK, Spain and Italy) of respondents would happily never buy products made of single-use plastic again, while between 63% (Sweden) and 75% (Spain) would support a government ban on them.

    There was solid support – from 28% in Germany to 43% in Italy – for the idea of limiting meat and dairy intake to two or three meals a week; between 24% (in the UK) and 48% (in Italy) would back government legislation to that effect. Government subsidies to make homes more energy efficient were wildly popular, with support ranging from 86% in Spain to 67% in Germany, while covering the costs personally was rather less so (19% in Germany to 40% in Spain).

    There was broad support, too, for frequent flyer levies (from 39% in Italy to 59% in Germany, with a majority in five out of the seven countries in favour), but much less for buying only secondhand clothes (from 17% in Germany to 27% in the UK). More radical proposals, such as voluntarily eating no more meat and dairy and having fewer children than you would like, were supported by between barely 10% (Germany) and 19% (Italy), and 9% (Germany) and 17% (Italy) respectively.

    Asked whether they would be willing to switch to an electric car, an average of just under a third of respondents across the seven countries surveyed answered positively. Giving up driving altogether in favour of using public transport, walking or cycling. In France, Spain and Italy, 35%, 44% and 40% respectively said they would be willing to make the move. Support was lower in Britain (22%), Germany (24%), Denmark (20%) and Sweden (21%).

    Regarding a ban on fossil fuel cars, only in Spain and Italy were more people happy with the idea than opposed to it – with the level of opposition in countries such as France and Germany, at more than 60%, almost double the support.

    Also reported in the Grauniad:




  • Registered Users Posts: 680 ✭✭✭US3


    I find it hard to believe that almost half of Italian people would support legislation telling them what they can and can't have for breakfast or dinner. Even the 24% of UK supporting it seems to high. How could any kind of legislation stop you from eating a ham sandwich 4 times in a week instead of 3 anyway?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,453 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Not fixated. Just interested in opinions from the farming community on how they should adapt to climate targets, especially considering they are propped up by the tax payer.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,235 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    If you were to rephrase the question to "what do you expect others to do to combat climate change" In typical green fashion the results would be flipped - everyone else should pay more fuel tax, more on air fares, plant less trees (they only take up space for bus lanes)



  • Registered Users Posts: 40 joggerjogger


    12 year olds ? You're taking advice from 12 year olds, that explains so much of the brainless policies I just can't express it enough



  • Registered Users Posts: 40 joggerjogger


    Eh diesel electric ? Ya know those things called trains that Eamon has a hard on for



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,055 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Dunno. 9 out of 10 of your posts so far are but but but farming. Tell me which industry is not propped up by the tax payer and then elaborate why do you decided that food production is the worst of it and worthy of attack from "activists" who at most planted salad on windowsill and think they are competent to provide solutions or even to talk about it.

    Climate targets are just populist talk from politicians who thought it is the new go-to thing and most of the countries will never meet those crazy targets. Whole carbon trading scheme they use to "met targets" is just a con and was exposed some time ago.

    Closing down or even downsizing farming and food produce in the name of some "climate targets" when over half of the world population is going to bed hungry every night is just plain crazy talk. Attacking food supply in the name of ideology or personal belief is outright stupid.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Ah ya are fixated now. Every post is anti farming. Also, every industry is propped up by taxpayers. Even energy. How much has the government paid off your electricity bills? Or all the grants for retrofits and solar etc. Or the tax breaks for companies. Or putting in infrastructure to entice businesses to open in areas. Ya get me. The government prop up everything as the money stays in the economy. They give with one hand, take with another.

    Anyway, time to channel my inner DaCor and dump a few links. First up is that agriculture have hit 90% of their targets in Q1, more than any other department (ironically enough including the department for the climate or whatever it's called).

    Agricultural, long considered the laggard sector, has been performing strongly under the plan. The department had the second highest number of actions, yet achieved 91 per cent of the targets.

    It also showed that there has been a substantial uptake among farmers for the new environmentally-focused schemes being run by the department.

    Even the department weren't expecting the uptake from farmers in the schemes. Maybe @BlueSkyDreams could acknowledge that his "climate enemy" are more engaged than anyone else.

    Next up, an interesting one on the costs. Only 4 EU countries have the money to increase spending on climate actions to meet their Paris agreements. The EUs fiscal poilicies in relation to debt are the problem here. Countries will have to borrow, but under the rules many aren't able. The key take away here is that debt is going to finance the green revolution

    Any finally, Greenpeace who I'd have very little time for have said that public transport in Dublin is a shambles when it comes to pricing. This paragraph was interesting as it showed that the common person is just not given a thought. Tax them to the hilt but let other business off (I'm looking at aviation really here which is a total joke it isn't taxed)

    Public transport tickets in the EU are taxed at an average of 11 per cent VAT, higher than many other basic services and necessities, though in Ireland public transport tickets are exempted.

    VAT on cross-border airline tickets in the EU is at zero per cent and kerosene for airplanes is not taxed, which keeps the price of polluting transport low, while climate-friendly transport remains expensive, Greenpeace says.




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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    They don't and that is not what was being asked.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Closing down or even downsizing farming and food produce in the name of some "climate targets" when over half of the world population is going to bed hungry every night is just plain crazy talk. Attacking food supply in the name of ideology or personal belief is outright stupid.

    Half the world going to bed hungry has very, very little to do with the amount of global food production.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,639 ✭✭✭Nermal


    People are a lot more virtuous in surveys than in supermarkets.

    The only way you'll significantly reduce meat consumption is through making it unaffordable or through rationing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,110 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I`m afraid that is exactly what it means.


    The OECD - FAO Agricultural Outlook Report 2021 - 2030 is projecting an increase of 14% in global meat consumption by 2030.


    While the Irish Green Party and their supporters are looking for a decrease of 1.3 million head of Irish cattle, Brazil alone is increasing their herd numbers by 24 million to fill this demand, while cutting and burning rainforest to do so. For 2021 the E.U. imported meat to the value of €396 millon from Brazil. Same for Argentina. In total 80% of the value we exported to the E.U.for the same year.


    I often wonder does the Irish Green Party and their supporters somehow believe we are living in our own little biosphere, or is it that they believe Irish cattle are somehow unique globally when it comes to emissions, because when it comes to carbon footprints and global emissions I cannot see any other explanation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,748 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Good lot of 2009 Diesels and early going around which are the more polluting "Euro 4" standard, so may not have a diesel particulate filter (DPF) for one, and they're more polluting than newer Diesels, along with the fact that some VW group cars were fitted with "defeat devices" to give false reading on the actual level of pollution that these engines produce, so would definitely be good to have old Diesel cars off the road..

    The new "Euro 7" standard will come in in 2025 and will tighten up emissions for fossil fuel burning vehicles and will push the price of a new ICE car so they are higher than your average EV....



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    agriculture have hit 90% of their targets in Q1, more than any other department

    Thats great news however it looks like that figure applies to the Dept of Agriculture, not the agriculture sector so excuse me if I don't jump for joy. I could be wrong though, the article is not very clear

    I am hopeful that the agri sector can pull up its collective socks and get to work on its emissions though and look forward to seeing progress.

    If you have more details on the achievements I'd appreciate a link as I'd like to dive into the details to understand more



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    What in the name of jaysus do you think figures from the department of agriculture represent if not agricultural? This is the shite that drives people mad. Certainly me. Do you think it's the department offices that have hit targets or something?

    Agri socks are being pulled up as any one can see with farmers en-masse signing up to schemes and reducing inputs. I see milk intake by processors are down. Likewise the beef kill. According to other posters here that should mean a price increase. That's not happening and now it looks like a retailer price war on dairy is starting.

    I've no more details on achievement but I think Eamon Ryan is releasing a report today



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    What in the name of jaysus do you think figures from the department of agriculture represent if not agricultural?

    Each dept has their own individual targets as well as targets for the sectors. They are aligned, but not necessarily the same thing. I posted recently some of the individual climate action roadmaps from some other depts as examples of actions that the depts have to do themselves that are not necessarily sectoral requirements

    I've no more details on achievement but I think Eamon Ryan is releasing a report today

    Great, look forward to reading it. I would love if that 91% is for the sector and not just the dept. It would be a pleasant surprise and would go a long way to quieting the likes of Michael Fitz on his "woe is us" narrative.

    The rate of sign-ups for the various programs is very encouraging and shows that many farmers are on board with the climate action goals



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Absolutely, those new emissions standards will do more to kill off ICE than anything else

    In fact, for anyone who buys new and is buying an ICE engine now, it'll likely be the last one they'll ever buy as a lot of manufacturers have already or will shortly be, ceasing development on ICE models.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,453 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    What other industry receives billions in subsidies?

    And judging by your remarks below, is an industry that has no drive or concern whatsoever to offset emissions and reduce the climate impact of their industry.

    Granted, there have been other farmers here who have acknowledged climate targets and Agri's role in helping.

    And where those people feel 25% is too large a reduction, they have said so and explained why.

    Fair play and respect to those people and i am sure they will try their best to deliver positive results.

    But for those of the opinion that Agri needs to do nothing on the emissions front and believe the whole climate thing is a big con, there will be a shock coming when subsidies start to reduce for those farms not doing their bit.

    That approach will come, sooner rather than later.



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