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You've been looking in the wrong direction, the dangers are coming from the Left - read OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,383 ✭✭✭✭Geuze



    Correct, that is why some of my friends say: "let SF go in Govt, and see what they can/will do"


    As in, it's easy to oppose from the ditch, but let's see how a SF or PBP minister deals with medical consultants and their demands.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,509 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Lol

    you have yet to compare their public platforms actions or statements.

    you name dropped them but have yet to establish they are even comparable. Or as you put it just a moment ago to Annasopra: you asserted it, but have not evidenced it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,364 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Yeah, you said - better the devil you know, or sometrhing....

    It would depend on how much sway a far left party would have in a coalition (which, at the ciurrent standing wouldn't be all that much) - I think we'd ba back to the good old days where we were having an election every other year.

    Has there ever been a far left inflential party in a western nation...?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,619 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Maybe Scandinavia-ish? Though they tend to be fiscally responsible rather than Homer Simpson running the garbage that most other left governments turn into "Can't someone else pay taxes?".



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,364 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Scandinavia's not even close to far left. Economically, they'd be moderate left, socially they can be surprisingly nationalistic (especially Denmark) and Sweden' supposed to be one of the most racially intolerant countries in Europe when it comes to immigtrtion.

    It would probably come down to how you defined far and moderate though.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,364 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    .... and vice versa. The further you go from center, they more authoritarian you get, regardless of which direction you go.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    The far left in Ireland dwarf any threat posed by the far right in Ireland for the simple reason they have influence both in media and state bodies, they have completely infiltrated education, PBP receive about ten times the amount of RTE airtime their electoral level warrants, Paul Murphy must have his own dressing room in RTE

    the far right have no power or influence whatsoever in Ireland



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,730 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    The devil we know is a bad option but the wing nuts waiting in the wings are likely to leave us wishing we were only dealing with greed and cronyism if they ever get into power.

    Ireland is in desperate need of political reform but unfortunately there is the potential for a protest vote against this current scumbags that could send us hurtling back to the bad old days of the 80's or worse, and we may never recover.

    We're stuck allowing multinationals to take the piss and pay fvck all tax because we have no other options. Prior to this current arrangement the country was a dump that people were clamouring to get out of for generations. Sinn Fein et al would have us back in that situation.

    We're certainly not spoilt for choice in the next general election.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,730 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    Agreed.

    Horseshoe theory is the preferred term I prefer to think of the far left and far right as two cheeks of the same arse.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,364 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Yeah, I stated that earlier, but someone dismissed it as 'bunk' - not much point in debating with someone who is that dogmatic themselves.

    But the "dangers" (whatever they are - has anyone actually said?) always come from extremism and dogmatic authoritarianism. The problem is, we do like to provoke the extremists sometimes.

    (edited)

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,730 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    We can take it as a given, as Noam Chomsky might say, it's something so obvious that it should be embarrassing to even mention it.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users Posts: 277 ✭✭Guildenstern


    I really don't think the far left have that much influence in the media etc. I do think the more general left do, but then so do FF and FG, given the soft focus of much reporting, which sometimes seems little more than just repeating government press releases.

    Economically, I don't really see the moderate left - Labour, Social Democrats, and you could even throw SF in there, will be too much of a problem as some paint them. Plenty examples across the western world of moderate left parties in power.

    FFG bots will continue to cry reds under the bed and how all the multinationals will just leave etc, but that's standard scare tactics. If you've only lived in Ireland and just had FFG to deal with, and are generally content with what they have provided, these scare tactics are for you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,730 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    Reds under the bed is hardly appropriate here.

    Sinn Fein have stayed a number of goals that would have catastrophic consequences to our economy, and let's face it, without foreign investment we're toast.

    We have a post brexit United Kingdom in direct competition with us for the type of investment we receive from multinationals who have a bigger population base with better infrastructure to offer any companies leaving Ireland.

    Sinn Fein could be absolutely disastrous for this country if they go ahead with the economic policies they're proposing.

    And if you don't think the far left have influence in the Irish media you must be living under a rock. The likes of Paul Murphy can't keep themselves out of the media spotlight in Ireland.

    Glazers Out!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The far-left in this country - or at least those who claim to speak in its name - are nothing more than a bunch of amoral, insincere grifters.

    Clare Daly, Mick Wallace, Richard Boyd-Barrett, Ming Flanagan, Paul Murphy - they're all the same. They claim to speak on behalf of the poor, whilst raking in the cash off the back of their views. Many are having a great time as MEPs; all you need do is turn up to claim your 300 euros for the day, or whatever the value is these days. You barely hear from most of them again, except of course when they're shilling for Russia.

    There are lots of mindless sheep in this country, who somehow find themselves serenaded by these five grifters. All the while at their expense, the grifters are laughing all the way to the bank.

    I wouldn't call the above quintet a "threat" to Ireland for that very reason.

    Once they earn the salary and status of their position in society, they pretty much disappear off the radar until the next wave of far-left grifters swoon in to replace them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 277 ✭✭Guildenstern


    Just because Paul Murphy gets airtime doesn't mean that much. Keeps his profile up, which I suspect is his intention, but I'd be pretty confident his party hasn't received any sort of bounce due to his many TV appearances. 2/3% level. It can work against a politician as well, just coming on the TV what appears each and every week, whinge after whinge. Viewers tire of it quickly.

    I agree much too much media for such a small % of support. The points he is arguing, opposing government policy, could just as well be argued by one of Labour, SF, Social Democrats, or even some of the many independents we have.

    I'm reminded of the similar fear expressed by many in the UK, mid 90s when the John Major government was on its last legs. To be replaced by a Labour government led by Tony Blair.

    I accept a PBP led government would be ridiculous but I'm struggling to see much concern from a moderate left led one, but then I just don't see SF turning out to be that radical.



  • Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭Madd Finn



    Thank you for confirming my deepest prejudices, expressed already in my post when I said:

    "The whole premise that the world can be viewed through a bifocal lens of "Left" and "Right" is nonsense and tends to be peculiar to countries with outdated representative systems that essentially permit only one alternative: Left or Right? Red or Blue?

    ... It polarises people, dumbs down discourse and gets us all nowhere."

    All you have got as an argument is "the other guy (in your case, The Left) is so mad that anything, even the nonsense spouted by MY favourite loony, is preferable"

    To strengthen this line of argument, you then say that the stupidest point of view of the most moronic of your opponents is, MUST, be espoused by anybody of different outlook to yourself. This is the secret of the supposed success of the craziest American news networks. If somebody from their preferred party says something ridiculous, with which they might even disagree, they don't address the issue at hand. They don't suggest a modified approach that they might actually be comfortable with.

    Instead they demonise the crazies on the other side and say "Here is your only alternative!" They stamp out intelligent discourse by only recognising the extreme arguments of each lunatic fringe. They ignore intelligent discourse by only recognising the extremes. A bit like you posting a GIF of a screaming depressive and suggesting that this is the only counter to your point of view.

    We live in a world of increasing literacy, unprecedented global access to knowledge and the potential to expand genuine knowledge and expertise. But the powers that be, particularly in the US but to a lesser extent in the UK as well, want to try and reduce us to a simple Left/Right or Blue/Red binary and demonise the other side.

    More fool anyone who buys into it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭Madd Finn


    ...and here we have a prime example of somebody trying to speak for the opposition so they can demolish arguments the real opposition didn't make. It's easy to win an argument when you're trying to speak for BOTH sides!

    "The far left in the west are apologists for the historical horror's of Communism, which they argue was a fantastic system that we should all be clamouring to adopt, which is the left wing version of all the negative things you outlined in your post."

    This is BS. Most of what passes for the "far left" in Ireland are in fact Trotskyists, or at least much closer to him than to the Soviet Politburo. If you don't know your Judean People's Front from your People's Front of Judea you should at least know that Trotsky and Lenin had a MAJOR falling out which led to an agent of Lenin's successor, Stalin, smashing Trotsky's head in with an icepick in Mexico a couple of decades after he fled the USSR. These people were VERY different.

    So are their ideological successors.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,364 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    He kinda has to as a politician - the question is, how much airtime is he getting compared to more mainstream poiticians?

    Wasn't he recently speaking out against the hate incitment bill? Doesn't sound like a far left stance.

    It's also a case of how much attention the movement is getting - at the end of the day, he's still just one TD in a field of 160.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    If Justin Barret or someone got elected, and he was getting the same kind of coverage from the media that Paul does, there'd be armies of people on the supposed left that would be screaming about how the media in Ireland is far right and "fascist".

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users Posts: 33,364 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    That's because of history. We know what happens in Europe when the far right gets elected. We haven't had the same history with the far left (yet).

    I find it ignorant when people use the adjective that most describes the political stance they have the most to describe the media. Nothing new there.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,730 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    Far left regimes existed in places that weren't the USSR.

    They all resulted in mayhem and misery. In theory far left policies seem utopian, in practice they're universally distopian. Infighting within one nation doesn't excuse the universal failure of the ideology.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    not sure if serious?

    “ we haven’t had the same history with the far left yet “



  • Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭Madd Finn




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,697 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    Quite a lot of reasons why they resulted in mayhem and misery. One of course being outside interference from capitalist forces.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,364 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,730 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    So it's all capitalism's fault that every communist regime ended up a disaster?

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,697 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    I'm just saying, capitalism is not blameless. And communism has never been tried without influence from capitalism.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,730 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    Sounds like a serious cop out.

    Communism failed because of capitalism. Nonsense.

    Glazers Out!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You're having it both ways.

    When capitalism fails, you blame capitalism.

    When communism fails, you blame capitalism.

    Utterly embarrassing stuff right there.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,364 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    They tend the fail for the same resaon - human insecurity.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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