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General British politics discussion thread

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    #8882
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,627 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    A far worse story than no I.D. is emerging. People who "don't look enough like their I.D. are being turned away.

    I wonder is there a system to report this because what stops for instance a Tory voting I.D. checkers from deeming all the "dyed hair, leftie woke looking types" don't match the I.D.



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    #8883
    PommieBast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,715 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120555532#Comment_120555532

    Got a reference? As much as I believe the whole ID thing is with malicious intent I don't think it has gone that far.

    Looking at my UK driving licence (lost at least 15kg since the pic was taken) I did however wonder how much leeway they give with pics.



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    #8884
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,627 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120555745#Comment_120555745

    Its all anecdotal so far and their are accusations and denials from people on the Guardian live blog. To be honest the numbers will be tiny but hey the numbers of voter fraud were equally tiny.



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    #8885
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,330 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Sadly, UK seems still unwilling to apologise for slave trade;

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/04/belize-likely-to-become-republic-says-pm-johnny-briceno-as-he-criticises-rishi-sunak




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    #8886
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,297 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120555745#Comment_120555745

    From the guardian:

    Dozens of voters have been turned away at polling stations because they did not have valid photographic ID, ITV News reported.

    Polling station tellers in Oxfordshire said “large numbers” are being turned away, reporting that between 10% and 25% have been unable to vote.

    The Electoral Reform Society said it had seen “countless examples of people being denied their right to vote due to these new laws”.


    Jess Garland, the Electoral Reform Society’s director of policy and research, said: “We’re already seeing countless examples of people being denied their right to vote due to these new laws.

    “From people caught out by having the wrong type of photo ID to others turned away for not looking enough like their photo.

    From the independent:

    People have been prevented from voting because they didn’t have the correct photo ID, an MP has claimed.

    Layla Moran, the Liberal Democrat MP for Oxford West and Abingdon, said she had received “reports by our tellers of people being turned away at polling stations for lack of correct ID.”

    At the end of the day the whole point of a photo ID is to identify the person; so I could see someone being turned away with a valid ID as well as people simply thinking they had a valid ID.



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    #8887
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,298 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120555532#Comment_120555532

    This is a conspiracy theory?



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    #8888
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,297 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    Initial results not looking good for Rishi or more specifically the Tory party in general...

    With full results from 25 out of the 230 councils where elections were being held, the Conservatives had suffered a net loss of 36 councillors, Labour had a net gain of 38 councillors and the Liberal Democrats added a total of eight councillors.



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    #8889
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,627 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557071#Comment_120557071

    Lost control of 7 so far too with one swinging all the way over to Labour.



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    #8890
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,330 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Prof John Curtice BBC says Tories may lose 1,00 seats, but results indicate Labour would be the largest party after a GE, but might not have an overall majority.

    That would be good and the Lib Dems might get it right this time on changing to PR.



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    #8891
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,298 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    So all the talk of voter suppression and the like is turning out to be completely preposterous.

    People in England just had to bring some ID with them as people in Ireland are asked to do. Big fuss over nothing.



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    #8892
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,442 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557418#Comment_120557418

    The UK is not going to switch to PR. Apparently, Sir Keir is not a fan:

    Labour Leader Keir Starmer actively opposes a move to proportional representation for the House of Commons – putting him at loggerheads with the party membership and trade unions, Byline Times can reveal.

    On Wednesday, this newspaper reported that the 350,000-strong union USDAW had become the latest to call on Labour to back scrapping Westminster’s winner-takes-all voting system, First Past the Post.

    Two-thirds of trade unions that support the Labour Party now back a major change to Westminster’s voting system amid a mounting campaign among the party and union grassroots.

    But Starmer’s official spokesperson has now revealed that the Labour Leader has a “long-standing view against proportional representation”. When asked to clarify if the Labour leader was against PR he said “yes”.

    https://bylinetimes.com/2023/04/27/keir-starmer-now-opposes-scrapping-westminsters-voting-system-for-pr-in-blow-for-reformers/

    I find this infuriating but we have a two-party system so it doesn't matter.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #8893
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,298 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557418#Comment_120557418

    Starmer said a week or two ago that PR was out of the manifesto or Labour policy. I think I read that somewhere.

    Labour always pretend they're interested in PR until it looks like they're going to win a majority. Whilst these figures are not as good as 1995 when Blair got 48% of the vote, I would say Labour are still favourite to win a majority.



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    #8894
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,939 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557600#Comment_120557600

    Until all votes are counted and we can see what turnout was and which demographics were up or down this statement is as you say preposterous.



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    #8895
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,298 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557616#Comment_120557616

    So you'd prefer the dramatic American angle "voter suppression".



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    #8896
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,939 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557730#Comment_120557730

    Im saying you cant say if there was or wasnt any yet as there's no clue to what turnout was yet, you as usual are jumping the gun



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    #8897
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,442 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    This is a clear attempt at voter suppression. It was plain from the get go with the ageist discrimination where younger people weren't allowed to use some IDs that older people were. Of course, with the Tories being Tories, they've made a mess of it and squandered more precious political capital to create yet another corruption scandal for no gain whatsoever.

    My borough (Brent) didn't hold elections yesterday so I cannot comment. I'd be bringing every form of photo ID I had if they were.

    https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1654343858900156419


    Post edited by ancapailldorcha on

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #8898
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,298 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557765#Comment_120557765

    But is this "voter suppression". If this one tweet is correct, the people turned away can return with id.

    I was asked for ID the last time I voted in Dublin and I showed my drivers licence.

    Not sure I see the big deal here. I suppose people don't like change.



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    #8899
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,442 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557997#Comment_120557997

    That's because ID cards aren't a problem in other European countries and they're well used to them. This is a strategy to minimize the opposition vote and it was conceived of by a government of mediocrities. We shouldn't need ID because there's virtually no voter fraud problem here.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #8900
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,627 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120558116#Comment_120558116

    There will probably be more people who can't vote because of I.D. problems than there would have been fraudulent votes which kinda defeats the point.

    Something I don't understand is how does the person using postal vote show I.D. ?

    I'm probably more for than against voter I.D. but some of the aspects of it have been very dodgy.



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    #8901
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,939 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120558419#Comment_120558419

    There absolutely will be considering the infinitesimal amount of suspected let alone proven fraudulent votes that are cast.



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    #8902
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 13,298 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120558419#Comment_120558419

    You earlier speculated that tellers would turn away leftie wokie types. Whatever that is.



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    #8903
    Brussels Sprout
    Registered Users Posts: 7,076 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120557613#Comment_120557613


    If they don't have a majority then that'd likely be the price of any coalition agreement for the Lib Dems.



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    #8904
    Brussels Sprout
    Registered Users Posts: 7,076 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    The Green party seem to be doing well. Currently have 73 seats with a gain of 38.

    Given the mechanics of First Past the Post they might be nearer to the tipping point in some constituencies where the anti-Tory votes coalesce around their candidates. They'll need good local councilors for that to ever happen though.



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    #8905
    Guildenstern
    Registered Users Posts: 277 ✭✭Guildenstern


    Later next year, 2024, may see a UK general election very close to an Irish one. OK, a lot may happen to prevent that from now, but has that ever happened? I suspect ours could be more likely into 2025, but not certain at all. Am I right in assuming that the UK one has to be prior to December, due to the 5 year rule?



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    #8906
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,382 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120558756#Comment_120558756

    Middle of December 2019 in UK, 8th February 2020 in Ireland. So that was <2 months apart.



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    #8907
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,442 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120558419#Comment_120558419

    The point seems to be voter suppression. The problem is one of competence. If done in good faith then there's no issue with ID. The thing with the UK is that there's resistance to mandated ID as we saw during the New Labour years. Voter fraud doesn't really exist here. I saw on TLDR News that the number of successful prosecutions for last election was in the single figures in a country of almost 70 million people.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120558652#Comment_120558652

    True but 2010 was a fluke for them. Both major parties were toxic and they had Nick Clegg at the time. Now, Labour aren't toxic and I doubt most people could name their leader.

    It could happen and I desperately want PR but it's not going to happen if we're being realistic.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #8908
    Brussels Sprout
    Registered Users Posts: 7,076 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120558756#Comment_120558756


    There were Irish and UK elections 1 month apart in 1997.


    We could very well have Irish, UK and American elections within a few months of each other next year as well as Euro/local elections earlier in the year and an Irish Presidential election the year after.



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    #8909
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,330 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Well Starmer would have to look at minority Government, if he has no mind to have a coalition. A coalition with Lib Dems is most definitely tied to a move to PR. Starmer has gone back on a lot of things in the past few months, and being a realist, one more shouldn't be an issue.



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    #8910
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,442 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120559053#Comment_120559053

    Nick Clegg took 57 seats in 2010. I doubt Ed Davey will get more than 20. The SNP may not hold onto some of theirs in Scotland either.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #8911
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 25,627 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Having been forced to spend a lot of time in Torbay I'm in no way surprised it bucked the trend for the Tories.



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