Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

"Green" policies are destroying this country

Options
17317327347367371067

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 680 ✭✭✭US3


    This is copied and pasted from your post. What do you mean they don't?


    There was solid support – from 28% in Germany to 43% in Italy – for the idea of limiting meat and dairy intake to two or three meals a week; between 24% (in the UK) and 48% (in Italy) would back government legislation to that effect



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    Wow, that will only worsen the health of western nations



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,886 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Yup I was wrong.

    Though something like 24% of the UK also support shutting down pubs and nightclubs forever when asked about what covid rules they wanted to keep in place. Not suggesting there is any connection, just that there is always a surprisingly large percentage of people who support legislation in support of anything that conforms to their own lifestyle.



  • Registered Users Posts: 680 ✭✭✭US3


    Surprised DaCor hasn't posted this.


    Dublin has been ranked worst for public transport among 30 European capital cities by Greenpeace

    https://www.irishtimes.com/environment/climate-crisis/2023/05/04/dublin-is-worst-capital-in-europe-for-public-transport-ticket-pricing-finds-greenpeace/



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It was posted earlier by someone else 🤷‍♂️



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The report has been released

    As I thought, the % referenced in the earlier articles was on actions completed for the dept, so not the sector. It really was poorly worded in the earlier article.

    Its fantastic to see progress across the board, regardless of the dept or sector. The sector itself will be reducing emissions by participating in programs etc launched as a result of actions completed e.g. for the hedgerows and trees action, the dept sets up the incentive, the sector plants the trees and hedgerows, sequestered carbon is counted towards the sector.

    Just on the agri sector, they had 11 actions due and completed 10, hence the 91% figure. A quick summary of those actions is below, highlighted one is the only one not completed yet

    Just looking through the other actions completed, there's been a nice bit done, but still too many delayed actions. The only positive in relation to the delayed ones is they become higher priority for the next quarter and get additional supports/resourcing if needed so they get completed either way.

    We really should be seeing 90%+ for completed actions though. Anything below that is not good enough imho

    That being said, there's lots of great stuff coming in future quarters. Lots to look forward to 👍️

    The legacy actions file linked on the above page also shows that there's been 330+ actions completed in total so far. Not bad at all



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,453 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    The Govt giving temporary residential energy allowances was a targeted response to the rapid energy cost rise.

    You got that also. We all received it. And it was only available to Irish properties.

    The scheme has now finished and it was never remotely comprarable to a forever farming subsidy.

    Grants to help people upgrade their homes so that they can become more energy efficient is an incentive for people to go Green.

    Again, its not comparable to farming subsidies because you only get the grant if you take the green option and pay the lions share yourself.

    Though I do think there is merit in only giving subsidies to the farms demonstrably commiting to emission reductions. I am sure that policy is coming down the track.

    Good to see those Agri targets being hit and again it does show there is willingness in parts of the farming community to change. Great to see.

    It would be interesting to know how those targets accord with the 25% 2030 targets, if anyone knows?

    Certainly agree with you on the public transport in Dublin.

    Although I am actually quite pleased that Greepeace produced the report. Hopefully it will shame the govt into action, but I wont hold my breath :)



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    This looks very interesting and might go a long way to helping the Agri sector to meet it's emission targets

    Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Charlie McConalogue, and Minister of State with special responsibility for research and innovation, Martin Heydon, today announced a world-first scientific breakthrough that can enable the reduction of methane from the Irish cattle herd through animal genetics.

    The research to underpin this is a result of a €3 million project ‘GREENBREED’, funded by the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine. The project has led to the publication of the world’s first national genomic evaluations for methane emissions in Irish beef cattle.

    Collaborative research, involving Teagasc, Southeast Technological University, Munster Technological University and ICBF, found:

    • large differences in daily methane emissions between animals fed the same diet, with 11% of these differences being traced to genetic differences
    • the 20% highest emitting animals genetically are expected to emit 30% more methane per day compared to the 20% lowest emitting animals

    The work indicates that breeding programs to reduce methane emissions will be effective for selecting low-emitting livestock, especially when undertaken in tandem with the national genomic evaluations, such as the age at slaughter evaluations released in 2022.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    These are the schemes the dept. have announced, which they believe when implemented (or if) will reduce ag emissions. And a lot of those schemes are oversubscribed. Now what happens if the schemes don't deliver on the reductions expected? Is that the deptartments fault, or the sector? On the yellow highlighted one, it's a joke that LESS wasn't delivered. There are grants for LESS equipment with the exclusion of the dribble bar technology which is the cheapest variant of LESS. The other options are more expensive, heavier (meaning more soil compaction, more diesel burnt) and in many cases where land is hillier/stonier are completely unsuitable for the job. I believe the department are looking into it.

    CAP is the main subsidy for agriculture which was decoupled from food production in the 90s and is now an environmental subsidy. "Forever farming subsidy" was introduced for cheap, plentiful and high quality food in the EU. It has achieved that or the % of income spent on food would be multiples of what it is now. It was a case of consumer pays, or government pays. Still true today.

    In addition to that there is a lot of work being done on feed additives to help reduce methane emmissions. I believe seaweed is seen as a possible additive that can reduce emissions. Though remember there is no golden bullet. What scientists are trying to do is change the biology of a ruminant with something simple.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Now what happens if the schemes don't deliver on the reductions expected? Is that the deptartments fault, or the sector?

    It's already built into the legal frameworks that missed emission targets in the first period (to 2025) automatically get added on top of the targets for the 2030 period.

    This means more severe measures would be required to achieve even more drastic reductions in emissions, faster, in a shorter time frame



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Honest question here but shouldn't emission limits also include limiting the number of new entrants into the country? If we continue to allow 100,000+ into the country every year then any limits are pure pony in any sensible meaning of the terms.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,018 ✭✭✭✭y0ssar1an22


    i reckon all good public serving officials should set a good example to us plebs.

    cut out the cars and the flying.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,217 ✭✭✭Packrat


    In other words: "The beatings will continue until morale improves"

    Spoken like a true believer..

    Are you John Charles McQuaid reincarnated?

    Religion of all sorts are the refuge of the feeble minded, but death cults like yours are truly despicable.

    You won't win. Human nature is to survive and adapt, not to destroy itself.

    This ponzi scheme of yours will collapse and you'll die sad, bitter and alone.

    “The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command”



  • Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭AnFearCeart


    Not surprising to see this. We live in a society where an abundant flow of tax intake coupled with borrowed money flows into Government coffers. The government in turn spends a handsome proportion of this intake in supporting non-productive sectors, the kind of sectors that produce mountains upon mountains of studies and attracts activists to "lobby" government on which policies to adopt and proceed with. All that matters is the problem is never solved and the money keeps flowing into a never arriving solution.

    A sizable proportion of the Irish population, and indeed many western nations too into the bargain are semi, if not fully dependent upon government funding. This ranges from income supports to outright full employment in NGOs, etc... where all wages are dependent on government grants and budget allocations. Dare speak out against this from within and it's look over your shoulder for the impending P45. Government is bigger now than ever before, the only two things they have to cater to are - 1: Those who are fully or semi-dependent on government funding whether welfare or employment to keep their status quo - or 2: Those who are wealthy enough to lobby financially to have policies enacted to keep their ever increasing incomes growing.

    So, you end up in a situation where the very wealthy along with those fully dependent or semi dependent on the government for income/reliefs/favourable policies will toe the line with whatever they come up with going forward. It's a war on the working class and middle class (anyone who can stand on their own two feet), both demographics of which are shrinking.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,217 ✭✭✭Packrat


    A very insightful post. It's a truly awful situation for the rest of us.

    “The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command”



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    And the prize for the biggest melt on boards goes to.....

    2nd place goes to the people who thanked this post

    How dare DaCor suggest that young people's opinions should be taken into account



  • Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭AnFearCeart


    Hmmm... firstly, there are heaps of restrictions placed on young people such as the right to vote until you're 18, ditto for drinking alcohol, smoking tobacco, almost the same for marriage, sexual consent and driving a mechanically powered vehicle to mention amongst the least of things such as. Are you otherwise suggesting that we as "supposed adults in the room" hand over learned life experiences on such matters to a cabal of youngsters who to put it quite frankly are sculpted into thinking along the lines of those who desire an outcome aligned to those of the sculptor? Ahem, no - we've been here before and bought or seen that shirt on the rails of the Catholic Church. No thanks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    Stroke of Machiavellian genius really. Pump their little heads full of the idea that the world is about to burst into flames next Tuesday week, then when you have them properly terrified ask them to repeat your policies back to you. Pretty soon they are willing acolytes of your nihilistic doomster cult.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I've noticed a pattern where more and more progress is being made on emissions etc, there is a corresponding increase in dystopian prophecies from climate change denial folks.

    Personally I can't understand why these folks seem to be getting so triggered by cleaner air, increased biodiversity, cleaner water, more public transport, more walking & cycling infrastructure, greener energy generation and so on.

    It's a strange one but there's a definite pattern there. I think by 2030 some will be full blown tinfoil hat wearing cranks.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The ramp up on solar continues

    First up, a 468 acre solar farm in Waterford was granted permission (usual TBD caveat as regards appeals applies)

    Second, the first of 20 planned solar farms by Amarenco has started construction. They are aiming to have all 20 operational by 2026




  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,405 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Personally I can't understand why these folks seem to be getting so triggered by cleaner air, increased biodiversity, cleaner water, more public transport, more walking & cycling infrastructure, greener energy generation and so on.

    People are not triggered by these. People are triggered when they are taxed or their quality of life is reduced in this ridiculous futile exercise of saving the planet through only reducing emissions on the island of Ireland.

    Ireland represents less than 1% of global emissions. Climate change is not picky, it does not discriminate on point of origin of CO2. Therefore it only works when the world reduces emissions. The narrative peddled by the Green Party and the green brigade would equate to the world striving to reduce emissions holding hands and Ireland not pulling their weight. This is simply not the case.

    The current system of national emissions targets is also complete bullshit and should be scrapped. John the Irish farmer produces 1kg of beef and sells it to Saudi Arabia. John burns 1 litre of diesel driving his car, diesel that was extracted and refined in Saudi Arabia. The emissions for both these activities are attributed to Ireland. That is not fair to countries like Ireland.

    The Green movement doesn't understand the difference between macro and micro impacts. The world emitted 37,000,000,000 tons of CO2 in 2019. Sure, cancelling the Tipperary Town bypass will save a few tons off that list because a handful of people mightn't want to drive from Limerick to Waterford to see their family because the traffic is offputting, so we'd be able to stave off armageddon for a few seconds when you crunch the numbers. But the effect this has on people in Tipperary is huge, vs the tiny impact on global emissions. And those are real people whose lives are affected, and they have every bit as much of a vote as anyone else in this country.

    The Green movement also assumes that there is no such thing as trade, or offshoring. See the latest example of Brazillian woodchips being imported into Foynes and trucked to Offaly for burning. How does that make any sense? If we reduce our national herd for example, unless there is restrictions on beef consumption, we'll be importing beef, which the EU apparently want us to get from South America given their recent trade deal advances, which would potentially involved cutting down parts of the Amazon for beef farming. Is that really a win for Ireland? Or the world?

    These "wins" for the environmental movement and the absolute clown show that is the Irish Green Party are what annoy people. I could go on. I do sometimes laugh at the posts on here such as "Wooo there's a road project in the south east being obstructed by the Green Party" as if that's some sort of win for anyone. But then that laugh fades as I remember that there are 3 people who actually believe this nonsense sitting at the Cabinet table.

    By all means, bring on renewable energy, greenways, cleaner air, less tailpipe emissions, more wilderness, less pollution. But there are more effective ways to do it than taxing people and making life hard for them for no reasonable gain.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    This is all about international cooperation to make the global scale changes needed.

    Do you think it is really a good idea to call for the whole basis for cooperation on carbon accounting to be torn up 25 years after it was agreed because you don’t like it?

    Accounting for emissions where they occur seems like the only sensible way to do this. How would your proposal work?

    Whwt would that really achieve? The Irish farmer can pass on the increased cost of beef to the Saudi Arabian customer. (Just as the carbon cost drives down the price consumers will be willing to pay for Saudi Arabian petrochemicals?)

    I understand that you are angry but I cannot see how a relatively wealthy country with a high standard of living like Ireland reneging on its commitments is a good way to bring global change.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    You stuck in an 'only' in the middle of that post. What did you mean by that?

    You think Ireland are trying to solve climate change on our own?

    We're doing it as part of a global effort.just because some countries are not fulfilling their commitment doesn't mean every country should abandon them



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,779 ✭✭✭paddysdream


    Catholic guilt ?

    Your last sentence really sums it up for me .If global warming is so important then who cares if its rich or poor countries who are forced to wreck their economies.If its a poor country then will the planet make allowances and its emissions will have less of an impact ?

    Are Irish emissions particularly harmful due to our wealth ?



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,405 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    It is all about international co-operation but I don't see much of that. Global emissions are still rising. But I don't see how little old Ireland being the well behaved member of the class is going to cause the US, China, Australia etc to drastically reduce their emissions. If anything, what the Irish Green Party are aiming for will see other countries shy away from emissions reductions if people have a reduced quality of life.

    Per capita emissions in Ireland are already half of those in North America, Australia, New Zealand, the Middle East etc. Even by Northern European standards we are doing quite well.

    I'm not suggesting tearing up any rulebooks for accounting emissions. But I will say this as I have repeatedly said, if a large share of the Irish population feels hard done by because of this, it'll lead to the politics of anger, and who knows where that will end. And I think that if there's a prevailing idea that it won't lead to anger, Hillary Clinton and David Cameron can speak of otherwise when anger pollutes the political system and people en masse feel hard done by.

    (I should state I'm not angry - it's 7:52pm where I am and I'm typing it as someone who's looking from the outside in, and I don't really think that Ireland should be following a policy of handicapping itself economically so we can earn some gold stars to show off at the next Conference of the Parties in whatever resort it's held in).



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Per capita emissions in Ireland are already half of those in North America, Australia, New Zealand, the Middle East etc. Even by Northern European standards we are doing quite well.

    Ireland is currently ranked 35th globally for emissions per capita out of 209

    When you exclude micro states and countries with less than 1 mil population, we are ranked 26th

    It is all about international co-operation but I don't see much of that.

    • The Paris Agreement 
    • UN Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC)
    • Kyoto Protocol 
    • The Ozone Treaties: Vienna Convention and Montreal Protocol
    • Convention on Biological Diversity (includes the Nagoya and Cartagena Protocols)
    • Basel Convention on the Control of Transboundary Movements of Hazardous Wastes and their Disposal
    • Aarhus Convention
    • Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES)
    • IPCC
    • COP
    • The Glasgow Climate Pact
    • The Kunming-Montreal Global Biodiversity Framework (GBF) 
    • Carbon Border Adjustment Mechanisms (CBAM)
    • Copenhagen Accord
    • Espoo Convention
    • EU Emissions Trading System (EU ETS)
    • Fit for 55 Package
    • Marrakesh Accords
    • REDD+
    • Renewable Energy Directive 20/20/20 (RED I)

    and so on



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,405 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Ireland is currently ranked 35th globally for emissions per capita out of 209


    When you exclude micro states and countries with less than 1 mil population, we are ranked 26th

    Given our high quality of life and our agri industry, that's quite good.


    I won't quote the rest of your post but despite the 20 examples of international agreements you mentioned global carbon emissions continue to rise. Talk is easy but it appears action is not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,212 ✭✭✭TomSweeney


    Excellent post, you should (probably have already) check out Bjorn Lomborg, he nails it on the responses to Climate Change.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I won't quote the rest of your post but despite the 20 examples of international agreements you mentioned global carbon emissions continue to rise. Talk is easy but it appears action is not.

    Rome wasn't built in a day

    It's why everyone has plans and targets that are annual, to 2030,to 2050 etc

    Why? Because just shutting down the world immediately to stop all emissions right now isn't a smart approach.

    However plans that will see us and others at 80% renewable energy generation by 2030 for example are achievable in a logical way without collapsing entire economies.

    Another example, the nations bus fleet should all be zero emissions but it's not realistic to do it overnight but it is realistic to do it between now and 2035.

    The same, smart approach, is being taken across all sectors of the economy.



  • Advertisement
  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The windfall taxes can't come soon enough. The record profits keep on rolling for Big Oil, this time its Shell with nearly 10 billion in profit for Q1 this year

    Read that again, 10 billion in profit in 3 months...




Advertisement