Another Electric fence question

gerryirl · 13-06-2018 6:46pm #1

We have an elephant super m45 electric fence. We have it since god was a child. It has served us well but Im not sure its able to cope with it hitting scrub etc. Ive a fair bit of fencing done the last few years and we are losing power all the time so Im looking for opinions for a new one. Looking for 1 that would do a 100 acres approx. I dont know much about them but whats the story with joules etc. any advice or opinions are welcome

Thanks

grange mac · 13-06-2018 7:02pm

gerryirl wrote: »

We have an elephant super m45 electric fence. We have it since god was a child. It has served us well but Im not sure its able to cope with it hitting scrub etc. Ive a fair bit of fencing done the last few years and we are losing power all the time so Im looking for opinions for a new one. Looking for 1 that would do a 100 acres approx. I dont know much about them but whats the story with joules etc. any advice or opinions are welcome

Thanks

Got one from Donedeal from polish guy in cork. 10joules output 180euro. Massive crack from it, couldn't justify the 5~600 gallagher or pel fencers. Happy with it.

gerryirl · 13-06-2018 7:44pm

i got a solar fence last year for a different bit of ground. Serious crack from it but I dont know how it would fair out with vegetation etc. Whats the joules about

patsy_mccabe · 13-06-2018 7:49pm

You'll get an idea of the joules (stored energy) required and approx area of land it will cover from here;
https://www.gallagherireland.com/energizers.aspx?mktcatid=427

A 100 acres will require about 10 Joules going by the above.

aidanki · 14-06-2018 8:56am

what are cheetah electric fencers like, made in Carlow IIRC, just as pricy as Gallagher however

Farmer · 14-06-2018 10:02am

Cheetah are excellent in my experience with good after sales support.

gerryirl · 14-06-2018 8:34pm

I cant fault the elephant. My father reckons is 30 odd years old. I was onto Elephant about it and they sent me on the details power of it etc. I think what has happened is each year there is bits added here and there and unless you can fully control the vegetation you ll lose power bit by bit. So I have 2 options either control the vegetation fully or buy bigger. An elephant m115 is near €700 euro. I control vegetation as good as I can but Im working too so getting time to do everything is becoming a problem

14-06-2018 10:16pm

Earthing system checked?

gerryirl · 14-06-2018 10:23pm

49801 wrote: »

Earthing system checked?

yes put in 2 new bars an all. I worked it our from google maps measuring it. Ive up on 6 miles of fencing. Thats fine with no vegetation but with vegetation the limit for the fence I have is 5 miles. So Ill have to get out in the coming days with the chainsaw and a few cans of round up and grazon 90

FeelTheBern · 14-06-2018 10:39pm

gerryirl wrote: »

We have an elephant super m45 electric fence. We have it since god was a child. It has served us well but Im not sure its able to cope with it hitting scrub etc. Ive a fair bit of fencing done the last few years and we are losing power all the time so Im looking for opinions for a new one. Looking for 1 that would do a 100 acres approx. I dont know much about them but whats the story with joules etc. any advice or opinions are welcome

Thanks

Only advice I could add is that if you want one for 100 acres, get one to do 200 or more. You'll never regret it as you can always add on bits of fencing if needed and will also be more powerful when you do have the inevitable grass/briars etc onto wire.

15-06-2018 8:47am

gerryirl wrote: »

yes put in 2 new bars an all. I worked it our from google maps measuring it. Ive up on 6 miles of fencing. Thats fine with no vegetation but with vegetation the limit for the fence I have is 5 miles. So Ill have to get out in the coming days with the chainsaw and a few cans of round up and grazon 90

Personally I’d stick with the grazon. Roundup creates great opportunities for weeds later which means you have to regularly reapply.

gerryirl · 15-06-2018 7:37pm

What does the grazon kill. Is it briers and what else

blue5000 · 15-06-2018 11:39pm

Is the earth dry?

invicta · 15-06-2018 11:52pm

blue5000 wrote: »

Is the earth dry?

The best “earth” for any fencer unit is,where possible,is the steel rsj pole of a shed!
As all poles are inter connected by the steel trusses and corrugated steel roof, if you have say 8 girders, then you have 8 earth bars!
Now for dry stock, that’s a solution, but I wouldn’t use a milking parlour or a dairy as a fencer earth, as you could get problems with earth leakage!

Snowfire · 16-06-2018 12:09am

invicta wrote: »

The best “earth” for any fencer unit is,where possible,is the steel rsj pole of a shed!
As all poles are inter connected by the steel trusses and corrugated steel roof, if you have say 8 girders, then you have 8 earth bars!
Now for dry stock, that’s a solution, but I wouldn’t use a milking parlour or a dairy as a fencer earth, as you could get problems with earth leakage!

I did that and yeah you’re right great earth job, but I was told it shouldn’t be done while cattle in the shed,

patsy_mccabe · 16-06-2018 4:08pm

Very dangerous to use the metal in a shed as the earth of a fencer. The normal funtion of an earth is to get rid of stray eletricity. It's completely different from the function of an earth in a fencer, which is to create a conductive loop to shock animals.

invicta · 16-06-2018 5:23pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Very dangerous to use the metal in a shed as the earth of a fencer. The normal funtion of an earth is to get rid of stray eletricity. It's completely different from the function of an earth in a fencer, which is to create a conductive loop to shock animals.

Wouldn’t 2 or 3 earth bars driven outside the shed be the same thing? i.e. the conductive loop is going straight to earth???

patsy_mccabe · 16-06-2018 7:53pm

invicta wrote: »

Wouldn’t 2 or 3 earth bars driven outside the shed be the same thing? i.e. the conductive loop is going straight to earth???

No, a normal earth is only there for an emergency, should something go wrong. It conducts the 230V to ground.
In a fencer, the output voltage is about 30,000V. When an animal touches the fence, the current from that voltage goes back through the metal in the shed to get back to the fencer. Not good or safe practice. That's why they even recomend going a distance away from the shed when placing the fence earth.

_Brian · 16-06-2018 8:51pm

invicta wrote: »

The best “earth” for any fencer unit is,where possible,is the steel rsj pole of a shed!
As all poles are inter connected by the steel trusses and corrugated steel roof, if you have say 8 girders, then you have 8 earth bars!
Now for dry stock, that’s a solution, but I wouldn’t use a milking parlour or a dairy as a fencer earth, as you could get problems with earth leakage!

Not recommended practice at all.

squinn2912 · 16-06-2018 10:00pm

Learning quite a bit here - we’re operatinh with half a dozen battery fencers. If those fencers do an area of 5-6 miles then at 180 euro they’re well worth it

wrangler · 17-06-2018 7:44am

_Brian wrote: »

Not recommended practice at all.

Agreed, earth bars are supposed to go into damp clay if possible, there's not much damp clay in the foundations of sheds nowadays unless one of the uprights hit the subsoil.
The Electrician that wired my shed connected all the girders to an independent earth outside the shed, it'd be a great earth for a fence now alright but he recommended not to do it

longgonesilver · 17-06-2018 8:05am

OP do you need to have all your fence connected all of the time?
When designing my fences I try to have it so that I can disconnect fields or areas if there is no animals in them.

squinn2912 · 17-06-2018 8:38am

Just about to head down the road to use a hedge strimmer to clear briers and grass from a fence. Is there a recommended fence that would save me this heartache every turn round? Something like 40-60 acres 5-6 fields including paddocks and perimeters

17-06-2018 9:17am

squinn2912 wrote: »

Just about to head down the road to use a hedge strimmer to clear briers and grass from a fence. Is there a recommended fence that would save me this heartache every turn round? Something like 40-60 acres 5-6 fields including paddocks and perimeters

Grazon90 can be used to address weed infestation and does not kill grass

orm0nd · 17-06-2018 9:30am

invicta wrote: »

The best “earth” for any fencer unit is,where possible,is the steel rsj pole of a shed!
As all poles are inter connected by the steel trusses and corrugated steel roof, if you have say 8 girders, then you have 8 earth bars!
Now for dry stock, that’s a solution, but I wouldn’t use a milking parlour or a dairy as a fencer earth, as you could get problems with earth leakage!

it's a pity there isn't more regulation re fencers, be it for cross compliance or QA

earthing off a shed is a big NO NO

croot · 17-06-2018 9:46am

orm0nd wrote: »

it's a pity there isn't more regulation re fencers, be it for cross compliance or QA

That’s one thing we don’t need. Regulation is needed in industry and farming but in Ireland it is being used as a means of control rather than what it should be for.

I have direct experience in my day job of a system being put in place to stop money being mis spent now costing multiples of what may have been mis spent. Normal oversight would have been fine but now we have a whole new raft of bureaucracy and it’s really just to justify their own jobs imo.

But yes the shed is a really bad idea. Just do it the recommended way and don’t try to reinvent the wheel

Water John · 17-06-2018 10:00am

The, top of the range, fencers claim to burn off most vegetation. But they are, very pricey.

patsy_mccabe · 17-06-2018 10:59am

Water John wrote: »

The, top of the range, fencers claim to burn off most vegetation. But they are, very pricey.

I'd say they use a lot more electricity doing so.

squinn2912 · 17-06-2018 11:37am

Just back up the road now it’s never simple! So grazon90 would be a better idea than a super fencer!

wrangler · 17-06-2018 11:40am

squinn2912 wrote: »

Just back up the road now it’s never simple! So grazon90 would be a better idea than a super fencer!

Grazon 90 will kill every thing except the grass and the cattle/sheep should eat the grass and bushes

Muckit · 17-06-2018 11:40am

squinn2912 wrote: »

Just back up the road now it’s never simple! So grazon90 would be a better idea than a super fencer!

No matter what fencer you need to keep the line relatively clean.

wrangler · 17-06-2018 11:45am

Muckit wrote: »

No matter what fencer you need to keep the line relatively clean.

Agreed, it was grand when it used to be allowed to hire a flail to go between the wire and the ditch in midsummer

squinn2912 · 17-06-2018 11:53am

Aye I was hoping someone might have an easy way out fir me! I suppose it’s obly a few hours every couple of weeks

Farmer · 17-06-2018 11:58am

Over a few years, you wouldn't be to long getting rid of the price of a better fencer in Grazon bottles. Equally, you really can't completely ignore vegetation. Best bet is a bit of balance overal, a reasonable fencer, - for me a "Super cheetah" is sufficient, good earths, well strained high tensile wire, minimal use of poly or temporary metal posts, a small bit of grazon here and there and a bit of pruning. If there are no major earth faults, a reasonable fencer will burn off the tips of vegetation that touch it. Certainly the €800 fencers will burn it off better, and you or the poor auld dog as well shoud you happen to touch it!

IMO always leave the fencer on so that it can keep ahead of the vegetation

Muckit · 17-06-2018 12:00pm

squinn2912 wrote: »

Aye I was hoping someone might have an easy way out fir me! I suppose it’s obly a few hours every couple of weeks

If you give it a good strim now that's it for the season. An ordinary hand hedge clippers handy then to get the odd stray briar every now and then. Do them as fast as you'll walk.

And the flail every 5-6 years.

peterofthebr · 06-05-2023 3:14pm

Maybe wrong chat but I've setup a Battery Fencer Cheetah Cub it's a single stand running a long distance 800m+ nothing touching the wire.

Should I earth it at the end of the line? The Energiser came with about 1ft earth for beside the device but wonder what would happen if I stick another earth near the furthers point(would it give a stronger jolt?) . The fense tester says its got a strong charge at the end already, Ive beef cattle

.

cute geoge · 06-05-2023 4:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562626#Comment_120562626

So your going to run an insulated wire 800m to a second earth🤔

that not how the fencer works,leave it as is

peterofthebr · 06-05-2023 4:21pm

No just was thinking of rod in da ground and insulated wire from wire to rod.

cute geoge · 06-05-2023 4:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120562814#Comment_120562814

well that is a complete no no as it will only earth the shock

peterofthebr · 06-05-2023 5:23pm

OK thanks for replies

hopeso · 06-05-2023 9:24pm

Put in a longer earth rod at the energiser if you want to improve the earthing.

orm0nd · 06-05-2023 10:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120563923#Comment_120563923

and/or a second earth rod about 3 metres from the first and bonded with insulated wire and connections sealed with denso tape

emaherx · 07-05-2023 8:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120563923#Comment_120563923

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120564100#Comment_120564100

The Cheetah Cub energizer is a 0.2J stripgrazer, the supplied 1 foot earth rod is for stripgrazing, definitely worth getting 1 proper 5ft earth rod when used as a permanent 800m fence. Complete waste of time and effort adding any more, a fence like this needs to be kept completely clear of earths from vegetation and will give a good shock if maintained but at 0.2J any amount of earthing will kill the fence and no amount of additional earth bars will make a difference.

This is a useful chart, it's based on PEL energizers but should be relevant for any other manufacturers.

07-05-2023 9:17am

A battery fencer will do fine on one earth rod . Throw a bucket of water on the earth rod to keep the ground moist. It will immediately up the shock by 20% .

50HX · 07-05-2023 9:22am

Earthing off the rsj of a shed renders your insurance null & void if any fire occurs in the shed

Good loser · 07-05-2023 9:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/107281640#Comment_107281640

Use it around now with another run in Sept. I concentrate on briars, then nettles and thistles. Grazon will do furze and whitethorns.

farm to fork · 08-05-2023 12:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120567609#Comment_120567609

Set up a quad sprayer in the back of the jeep and fly around the farm with lance out the window with Grazon pro. Only job. I put a long hose on it to get into the areas like corners where I cant reach from the driving seat. I have also set it up in the grab of the loader with the lance attached to a short boom and ran the sprayer off the button for the 3rd service when the ground was too tricky for the jeep.

orm0nd · 08-05-2023 2:01pm

Spent a time looking for cause of voltage drop this morning. we have sheep wire with a strand of mains in a lot of places and at some stage a pigtail was put in to replace a rotten post. The pigtail was zig zagged through the sheep wire and the white insulation cracked thus allowing a short.

The fence unit was bought in 1977 and has never missed a beat.

7 earth rods 3 metres between each in a half moon configuration form the earthing system.

893bet · 08-05-2023 5:01pm

Genuine question but is it not against the regulations to spray the headlands/under the wire at the ditch?

Another Electric fence question

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