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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,405 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    I agree with every word in your post. Ireland is a world leader in integrating renewable energy into its grid and long may it continue. Over the next few summers we should also see a noticeable contribution from solar, especially on summer days when wind isn't meeting a large proportion of demand and we have to resort to burning gas. Your posts in recent days show there is a real impetus behind solar farms now in this country also.

    In that regard, electrifying buses and rail transport should surely be an absolute priority for Government, especially the increasingly busy rail corridors into Dublin and Cork. One of the key perks with rail is that energy density isn't such an issue as it is with other transport modes, so there may be options for lower cost battery powered trains into the future.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,405 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Apple made a profit more than double that of Shell in the last quarter. Should Apple be windfall taxed also?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Agreed on rail, it should be electrified a long time ago. As it is, the current plans are still on the long finger by all accounts, though maybe that will change soon



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    I don’t see how this would save very much in carbon emissions. The non-electrified trains run at such low frequencies. It would be a symbolic project but would make basically no real difference.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40 joggerjogger


    And that outlines how out of touch with logic the green sociopaths are

    12 year olds man, 12 year olds



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  • Registered Users Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Mullaghteelin


    Elephant in the room is our ever-expanding airline industry and record breaking passenger numbers, that are often lauded as a mark of our economic success. Every back holiday we are told it will be the busiest weekend in Dublin Airport since whenever, as if we should be keeping score. More is good, apparently.

    What happens when we are told cheap flights must become a thing of the past? What happens when we are told we should be trying to reduce passenger numbers?

    I can barely imagine the uproar and hysteria that would cause!



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That's on the way as airlines will no longer get a free pass on emissions under the next revision of the EU emissions scheme.

    Flights by airlines not switching to low emission options are going to become more and more expensive



  • Registered Users Posts: 51,885 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    The Greens now down to 3% in the opinion polls. Won't be long until they're gone.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    There's only one poll that matters 🤷‍♂️



  • Registered Users Posts: 51,885 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover




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  • Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭AnFearCeart


    I know the image used in the article is a stock image, but seeing prime farm land covered over with panels is very disappointing as the land could be used to produce high quality food.

    I'd much rather see marginal lands used for panels, such as lands like this:

    which are types of land the owners receive grants for farming.



  • Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭AnFearCeart


    Whwt would that really achieve? The Irish farmer can pass on the increased cost of beef to the Saudi Arabian customer. (Just as the carbon cost drives down the price consumers will be willing to pay for Saudi Arabian petrochemicals?)

    I don't follow your thinking on this part - Irish beef is already expensive to purchase in comparison to beef originating elsewhere, driving up that price difference will not hamper the overall consumption of beef, it will though hamper the consumption of Irish beef.

    Your comment about driving down the price we pay for Saudi Oil is bizarre - carbon taxes do not drive down the price in any shape or form. When petrol and diesel hit over €2 per litre, people still filled up as normal - because they have to, they've no other choice.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,154 ✭✭✭opinionated3


    Best post I've seen on this thread in a long, long time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,110 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Where do you see this co-operation on emissions or indeed carbon accounting ?

    COP 26 India and Japan made it clear when it came to using a cheap energy source to protect their economies where they stood on carbon accountancy. China the same to provide the energy required to produce all the green tech. Russia could care less even if they tried, and now Germany, is burning whatever they can get their hands on while shutting down the last of their nuclear plants. That represents around 40% of the global population. Meanwhile here with 0.07% we have greens talking about accounting.

    But you do not even have to go that far afield to see the farce of green accountancy. We have "Green" energy companies claiming to be providing 100% green energy where we only produced 34% in 2022. How can that 100% claim be possibly true ? The possible muti-use of so called Guaranteed Green Energy Certificates perhaps ?

    I would have though with their obsession with accountancy Irish greens would have been all over that looking for an explanation. Not so it seems as it took an investigation by the Advertising Standards Authority on foot of a complaint by a Sinn Fein Senator for them to be told to cut out the B S.

    But then when it comes to massaging the figures, the EU is not hiding behind the curtains either. Biomass makes up 60% of EU renewable energy mix. Wind and solar combined 22%. The EU counts wood and other biomass burned for energy as carbon neutral based on the premise that CO2 emitted will be absorbed by more trees in the future. Not only do the not have a clue if trees are being planted to cover those being chopped down, the European Academic Science Advisory Council told them years ago that it will take from years, to decades to centuries.

    We have now also fully embraced the con importing woodchip from Brazil 7,000 Kms away, to burn in the former turf fired Edenderry plant in the make believe world of green carbon accounting.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Funny you should mention Germany, their end date for coal was brought forward 8 years to 2030. Coincidentally, the same shutdown date for Edenderry.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You might like this so, Pepsi are after installing the largest rooftop solar array in the country, 4,500 panels




  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    You’re not really putting any alternatives forward here. You are very quick to criticize others’ efforts but you have no proposals of your own.

    or do you think the whole thing is just hopeless and 4 degrees plus of temperature rise is inevitable?

    (Some your points are complete hokum. For example, if Germany increases coal emissions from electricity then there will be a corresponding decrease somewhere else through ETS.)



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Greens are a movement,not a party. They can survive an electoral wipeout far better than, say, Labour.


    They'll limp along until enough people forget how inept they were or nee generation of idealistic voters arise.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,591 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Irish auction set to be world’s most expensive for offshore wind energy

    The price tag is expected to be close to €150 per megawatt hour, which is three times more expensive than the latest sale in Scotland and far higher than other European countries source (paywall)

    This is part of the ORESS auctions. That's why the Greens are rushing to smooth the planning process, for the gold rush, while at the same time obstructing planning for anything they regard as ideologically impure. The Greens are setting the taxpayer up for compensation claims when the companies they obstruct sue the state.

    Meanwhile, to balance unreliable generation Gas consumption rises as wind speeds drop.

    "Total metered gas consumption was 4,586 gigawatt hours (GWh) for February 2023 which was 8% higher than the corresponding figure for February 2022," said Dympna Corry, statistician in the environment and climate division at the CSO.

    "Gas consumed by power plants to generate electricity in February 2023 was 33% higher than in February 2022 and 17% higher than in February 2021. source

    Wet and dull March drives higher demand for natural gas in Ireland

    Unusually wet and dull weather drove increased demand, according to Gas Networks Ireland, which operates Ireland’s 14,000km national gas network.

    Gas generated 45pc of Ireland’s electricity in March.

    At times, that figure rose to 88pc and it never dropped below 12pc.

    Wind powered 39pc of Ireland’s electricity in March, down on February. At certain points, wind generated 77pc of the country’s electricity, but there were times in the month when wind supply dropped almost completely and it contributed less than 1pc. source

    They tell us wind energy is cheap, then this: Wind farms to get paid for electricity they do not supply

    Wind farms will be paid for electricity they cannot supply under the terms of the Government’s latest renewable energy aid scheme, it has emerged.

    Eamon Ryan, Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications, this week announced details of the third onshore wind Renewable Energy Support Scheme (RESS 3) designed to attract wind farms capable of generating up to 3,500 megawatts of electricity in total.

    A new term included in RESS 3 will compensate wind farms when the system “curtails” or prevents them from supplying some of their available electricity. source


    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,358 ✭✭✭kabakuyu


    Looks like EVs have their problems as well, will the Greens encouraging us to buy EVs turn into the same diesel debacle they implemented in 2000's, the greens can't be trusted, they flounder from technology to technology without knowing the real long term consequences.



    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20104949.html



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    As much as I'd love to see it, I'm not sure that everyone can switch to PT/walking/cycling. Unfortunately due to the bonkers planning system we have thousands of one-off houses everywhere which means rural mass transport is very difficult to do. Not impossible though but needs a lot more exchequer support.

    So there will always be some who will need to drive, in which case EV is a better option than ICE.

    From the article you posted

    The break-even point depended on the source of the electricity used to charge the Tesla. For one charged entirely by renewable energy, it was 8,400 miles; for cars charged using the average US electricity generation mix (23% coal-fired, plus other fossil fuels and renewables), break-even came at 13,500 miles; and for electricity coming entirely from coal-fired stations, it was a whopping 78,700 miles.

    Based on the mix in the Irish grid, I'd estimate a break even around 12,000 miles, probably less



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    Lots to discuss here. Don’t see actual evidence that this will be the most expensive auction ever. You can’t really compare the GB prices to the Irish prices. The calculation is very different (because of how the consumer price index is factored in for example).

    Gas and other fossil fuel plants are also paid for not producing through the capacity remuneration mechanism and through constraint compensation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,110 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    It`s been your opinion that without co-operation on emissions and carbon accountancy where is no alternative. Even to the extent if that required Ireland culling cattle numbers by 1.3 million head.

    On cattle numbers where do you see the co-operation on emissions and carbon accountancy where if we culled every ruminate in the country, other than wrecking our agri sector to the detriment of our economy do you see it would not make one iota of differnce on either count ?

    You now seem to believe that the Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) is the answer to achieving this mythical co-operation on emissions and carbon accountancy. Are you talking about global co-operation, EU co-operation or just little old Ireland ?

    For coal governments representing at least 40% of the global population have clearly shown and stated that they do not give a rats behind about ETS, co-operating on emissions or carbon accountancy. Their priorities are their economies.

    The Emissions Training Scheme (ETS), is an EU (8.5% of the global population) scheme, and when you see that 60% of EU renewables are from wood and biomass, (that contrary to the opinion of the European Academic Science Advisory Council), are accounted by the EU as carbon neutral does not that raise a red flag for to you on EU accountancy ? Or even when you see the farce of these so called EU Guaranteed Green Energy Certificates where their is no problem with co-operation on them being used on multiple occasions, or no problem with the EU green accountancy ignoring it.?

    For Ireland (0.07% of the global population) no problem for the Irish greens either where accountancy is concerned where it suits their agenda. Happy to play the game that burning wood chips transported from Brazil, (where rainforests are being chopped down wholesale to increase their cattle numbers) are carbon neutral. No problem for them either ignoring the magical mathematical accountancy of 34% of generated electricity becoming 100%. Even the Advertising Starndards Authority had no problem doing the figures on that.

    So again, with your belief that there is no alternative other than co-operation on emissions and carbon accountancy, are you talking globally, a seperate unconnected EU biosphere, or a tiny Irish biosphere ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,110 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Difficult to know from that article, but with this offshore plan being 50% of electricity generated for domestic consumption and the other 50% for hydrogen production, potentially could that figure of €150 not end up double that with all the hydrogen costs piled on top as well ?



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,566 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    The amount of damage a vehicle does to a road is proportional to the fourth power of the axle loading.

    A fully laden goods vehicle would do ~ thousand times as much damage as a light car which in turn would do as much damage as ~ 100,000 bicycles.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The trend continues in the right direction for wind energy in Ireland

    wind energy provided 35% of the country’s electricity in April, and for the first four months of the year has met 38% of power demand.

    The record-breaking amount of electricity produced by wind energy last month was up 8% against April 2022, while the share of demand met rose from 32%.




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,591 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Unpredictable, unreliable and up and down like a yoyo.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    I love the way you attribute statements to me that I did not make.

    The EU accounts for quite a bit more than 8 percent of global emissions

    The border carbon adjustment tax will help internationalize the effect of these measures for countries exporting to the EU.

    You are big on whining and moaning from your talking points but what is your alternative proposal? War on the Southern Hemisphere? Interpretative dance festivals to convince people to reduce emissions?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,055 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    I have notice another pattern.

    First of all there is no such thing as climate change denial folks. Everybody knows climate change is sure thing, it has been with us since like forever.

    Anyone who does not support current craziness of ever increasing taxes in the name of some dubious unrealizable goals gets this idiotic sticker.

    What is actually more idiotic is belief that we can revert climate change.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    Lots to discuss here. Don’t see actual evidence that this will be the most expensive auction ever. You can’t really compare the GB prices to the Irish prices. The calculation is very different (because of how the consumer price index is factored in for example).

    Uh, what?! We had people on here for months last year claiming that wind was the cheapest form of power ever, and quoting a price of £37.50/MWh ... "nine times cheaper than gas". Never mind that they cherry picked the highest European gas price ever which persisted for all of one day on August 26th, and the cheapest wind auction price ever in a country that wasn't Ireland. They also gaslighted us that wind prices were getting ever cheaper, ignoring the actual evidence that Irish prices had increased 30% in two years. If we now see €150/MWh it will have more than doubled in three years! (This isn't actually a surprise to anyone noting rising interest rates, the consequent cost of finance to capital intensive businesses, and the particular inflation in energy commodities such as copper).

    At what point do we say to all the vultures sucking on the public tit: "sorry lads, there's a limit to the price we can pay". The sad answer is that the Green's will never say that. There is no price they are unwilling to pay with other people's money. The Irish Academy of Engineers challenged them three years ago to come clean about the costs to the public of their 2030 targets, something they have never done. They much prefer the "boiling frog syndrome" whereby the average uninformed punter doesn't even realise how the Greens are responsible for the creeping costs of energy.

    Gas and other fossil fuel plants are also paid for not producing through the capacity remuneration mechanism and through constraint compensation.

    More gaslighting. Electricity markets the world over hold capacity auctions. That's because they don't leave the availability of vital electricity to chance, depending on who shows up on the day. Wind generators can't avail of this for the obvious reason that they don't have any firm capacity to sell.

    You are big on whining and moaning from your talking points but what is your alternative proposal? War on the Southern Hemisphere? Interpretative dance festivals to convince people to reduce emissions?

    Glad you brought that up. You are right to eliminate all the stupidly impossible schemes. You can include wind power in that. There is no possibility of it leading to a net zero world, it can't even keep up with increases in energy consumption. Indeed there is no single technology that can do that as we'd need to be deploying 2 GW of new low carbon capacity every day from here to 2050. That's why it's completely obvious that the greenies are a doomsday cult and not interested in net zero. They eschew one of the most obvious partial solutions in the form of nuclear power.



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