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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭pcardin


    Lol. This aged well. I hope the below crowd understands why I dont engage in any discussion with them. Their moral compass is build in the same country as the 'give me a tow' tank parody Armata




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,036 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    How many people were there to counter protest? Just you?

    It still looks like I was right, most people do not care about Russians having their V day celebrations



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,148 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    I can understand it if they lived through the chaos of the 1990's. Near overnight Russia for the ordinary Russian went from pretty stable to near societal collapse, from a secure enough trajectory of school, college for many & a "job for life" to destitution for an awful lot of people especially in the urban areas. Their national and personal assets pillaged by oligarchs who became unimaginably wealthy and powerful princelings. On top of the whole existential thing of their once mighty Soviet Union failing and falling.

    Then putin comes along and things start to change. He nationalises the oligarchs, gets rid of the more obvious ones, keeps the ones he can control and gets a handle on the flood of cash and resources out of the country and some of the scraps from the master's table start to get to the people and they see this. He also gives them back their pride, rejigs their religiious faith to his purposes(and religious Russians tend to be very religious) and in essence brings back Tsardom(which many had a sentimental hankering for). Still, the difference for the average urban Russian between say 1998 and 2018 is stark and it's a positive one for most. Of course he makes sure they know all this and his role is hightened by his spin.

    If putin had retired or died in say 2010, yes there would have been a lot of questions around him, but equally a fair number of commentators outside Russia would have said on balance he was overall positive for Russia*. The problem is he didn't and had no more tricks in his box for the future of Russia. It's been set as an economy of flogging resources ruled by boyars and a Tsar. "Easy" cash, but other industries never really went beyond very local and even their resource selling was lazy. For all their talk of "friends" in the east and BRICS, where did nearly all their pipelines go? West. They didn't even bother to plan that ahead.

    That would take a very different leadership to putin and in many ways a mindset change for Russia herself. And time of course. They should be as well off as Scandi nations, but...





    *Bellendshenko in Belarus is not dissimilar. He navigated the early days of post Soviet collapse pretty well and still retains support among those over 40 for it. And then he went daft. As dictators tend to do.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,484 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    I’d be curious as to how many of the pro-Russia posters here were at the genocidal army celebrations. Anyone care to admit their presence?



  • Registered Users Posts: 510 ✭✭✭AerLingus747


    I'd say it was a carefully curated event for agents and handlers only



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  • What did you want then? The Russian Z-Mob to have their shenanigans banned and then be allowed to scream about Western oppression & censorship? Let them have at it IMO. Either ignore them or hold a counter-protest. Did you bring any eggs btw?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,861 ✭✭✭Rawr


    I wonder if it dawns on them at all, that they are putting on that disgracful display of knuckle dragging, in a nation where their only punshment for this is the scorn of society. But...if any of us adorned our own cars with Ukraine flags or symbols and paraded around a town in Russia...how many seconds would that parade survive before the local cops were all over it.

    We're talking about a country that will even punish the parents of children who might just crayon a Ukraine flag in thier homework in the hope of peace.

    These photos should be saved and these people should be reminded now and in the future years of their choice, by putting this photo beside the images of those innocents that the Russians have murdered in this conflict. Let them be forever compared to this, in the hope that some of them might develop an once of shame.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,036 ✭✭✭timmyntc




  • Registered Users Posts: 17,930 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    I recall the convoy of cars with Russian flags and Z symbols on the motorway last year, Russian and Serbians here protesting against the possibility of Ireland joining NATO, this recent Victory day parade.

    Have there been any Russians here protesting against the invasion?





  • Yeah, but would you not think it would be better to allow them to have their wee parade and hold up a sign like this at a counter protest: i.e. confuse the f**k out of them. I always think ridicule is the best response to people like this.




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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,148 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Oh I very much agree. My point was to try to explain why Russians, or at least a fair number of them, especially older ones, see putin as a positive. And of course add his control of the state and media to push his narrative that he is. And now he's got a war to get people behind him. War tends to raise nationalism and circling the wagons, even among many dissenters, and even more spin.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,719 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Although war can provide a boost to the popularity of a country's leadership, it doesn't do that forever or even automatically. There's a balancing act to be done between what is to be gained from winning, what is to be lost by losing, the time elapsed and the resources expended. Watching 1420 on Youtube, getting vox pops from Russians on the street, it becomes clear that nuanced views do exist in Russia. Just how many, I can't say, but their apparent existence shows that the Russian narrative in all of this is not absolute, not even in Russia. Putin has created a climate of fear where people feel unsafe expressing contrary views without recrimination, but he cannot get at what they hold in their hearts. If enough people are quietly against what is going on, then the petrol is already sprayed, waiting for a spark.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,455 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Its what happens when a few conspire to suck the wealth out of a country, as Putin has done. The collapse of the USSR meant that many people were facing starvation, due to the wholesale fleecing of the country by the Oligarchs, until Putin stepped in, commandeered the whole lot, and diverted a few scraps to the general population while keeping the rest. To this day many Russians , especially the older ones, regard Putin as their savior for this reason





  • Leo & Micheal will say: "are shure musha it'll be grand. We'll send out the Cork fishing fleet to monitor what's going on".



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,440 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Not very humble are they in a country that supports the fight back of Ukraine against the Rashist forces?

    Heck even the Prods in the Republic of Ireland after the establishment of the state mostly completely kept their heads down and just got on with life.

    But I suppose the effect of having the largest embassy in the EU in a country with one's warships patrolling off the coast unopposed and no threat to one's own country forthcoming in this genocide gives one a sense of power to do as one pleases in what they probably 100% perceive as an inferior little country to be laughed at.

    S.C.U.M.


    *and this is from a "prod" so I can use the term. But you do what you do to get on in life. The above by the Z's is not getting on in life but rubbing everyone's faces in it and putting yourself out there as an imperialistic force to be reckoned with.

    Deport them all who were at the rally.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,036 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Deport them all who were at the rally.

    What about those who had irish citizenship?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭pcardin




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,440 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    If they support Putin and Russia then yes.

    Just sign the dotted line.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,886 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Would assume poster is referring to those Russians who are letting the Z freak flag fly proudly while living in "Gayrope" among the degenerate nazis, homos and satanists etc. on a Visa!



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling




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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,693 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    On what basis do you expect the state to deport people who attended a perfectly legal event?

    I'm generally a big fan of the State not having the power to arbitrarily do these things.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,904 ✭✭✭✭josip


    I thought Irish citizenship through naturalisation was in the gift of the state and could be revoked? I don't think it should be for just attending a lame loony gathering, but if any of them were discovered to be in the employ of the FSB, then I would hope their citizenship would be revoked.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,036 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    but if any of them were discovered to be in the employ of the FSB, then I would hope their citizenship would be revoked

    Lol talk about goalpost shifting. "Deport them all" and now "deport subject to investigation if they are FSB"

    Is there any evidence that members of the FSB were at this rally and subsequent bbq at the racecourse? Or is this just more Pearl clutching about the dastardly russian immigrants coming to destabilise irish society by uh, having a barbecue and a Sunday drive? Lol



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,693 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I don't think they'd get permission for the march and whatever about Russia's actions being as bad as theirs (and I'm not really disagreeing here) the Russian state is not a proscribed organisation in the way that ISIS are.

    And its not a question of how I feel about it, its a question of the power we invest in our State and how they wield that power. I prefer it to be well controlled and regulated personally.

     that the person to whom it was granted has, by any overt act, shown himself to have failed in his duty of fidelity to the nation and loyalty to the State, or

    Obviously attending the parade is not going to fall inside this remit. But yes, if they were found to be a spy it could and would be revoked.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,213 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Of course they should be deported. Any Russian living in Ireland is a guest of our nation and if they can't behave themselves should be shown the door. I'd be hesitant to even allow Russian refugees in tbh. If the West keep accepting Putin's opponents/victims who's going to be left to overthrow him?



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,455 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Timmy, Irish passport holders or not, there should be no place in this Country for anyone who supports Putins murderous invasion of Ukraine. Putin is an unspeakable monster, and so are his followers no matter where in the world they are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,036 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    That argument could be made for almost any refugee from anywhere.

    Should we not accept Afghan refugees because they should stay and fight the Taliban? What about Syrians, should we refuse them because they should be standing up to Assad?



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,213 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    I'd certainly be in favour of deporting any Afghani in Ireland holding events to celebrate ISIS but rather than address that strawman can you explain why you think these Russian scumbags should be allowed to remain in Ireland?



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Should be accept Taliban fighters and isis

    But then again Afghanistan and Russia have a history between invasion, occupation,war crimes



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,036 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Strawman? You said you wouldnt accept russian refugees because then there'd be noone left to overthrow him. In your scenario the Russians seeking asylum are anti-Putin hence the overthrow comment, so the only strawman here is your response about Afghanis celebrating ISIS.



This discussion has been closed.
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