Race Horse Deaths

You're still trying to weirdly pull the sanctity of life gimmick and it's not working. There's no opportunity cost fallacy here, "having more horses in existence" is not the purpose of selectively breeding race horses, it's to make money. If you care about there being more horses in existence, go breed some generic horses, breed selectively for the health and wellbeing of the animal, not for racing traits. We're narrowly discussing racing, selective breeding of racing traits, and how this all winds up in hundreds of horses dying in our human custody every year under tragic circumstances, heart attacks, breaking limbs and necks, etc. and/or what can be done to eliminate the injuries (removing fences proposed)

I didn't dodge the question though, you kept going on and on and on about "think about how many fewer horses there will be" etc and I repeatedly told you I don't care etc and that's a poor argument I was not buying, with reasons.

I wasn't dodging anything, you just failed to understand what I was trying to tell you. This isn't a gotcha, I'm not swayed by a lower population of horses if we don't bloody them in horse races anymore.

Ahem,

"So we've established you don't care if your proposal leads to fewer horses in existence."

Jibes?

This whole post of yours was jibes. I guess you're incapable of making your case then

no the thread is about horses alone, though in passing I will admit something of myself that I'm not fond of selective dog breeding or animal breeding in general, it creates well, I don't want to say 'abominations' but certainly animals that suffer as a result of genetic conditions - like pugs and other shortnose dog breeds that have acute respiratory issues, or oversized dogs with heart and lung issues etc. as a result of their biology. Here it seemingly is immense stress on joints and necks and cardiovascular systems of these racing horses, selectively bred for racing speed, not overall health or fitness. A horse with dense bones I guess does not run as fast, a heart operating at the bleeding edge of health and safety is preferred?

I mean it sort of is a think of the animals stance, I just think of living animals here, not theoretical/counterfactual future populations of an animal that might not exist if humans didn't breed them for our own devices.

That's fine but even while horses are generally considered sentient it's hardly like they have proper informed consent or have any clue that one bad fencejump could mean they get put down while losing a leg. Like yeah, I could get a dog to consent to going just about anywhere with me with the right incentives but that consent doesn't ensure I have its best interests in mind.

I'm not even jumping to ban the sport but I'd entertain. A ban first came up in Post #23. I'm more of the more in depth thinking of investigating issues like, selective breeding issues leading to greater injury rates, etc. and doing things that could potentially modify or mitigate the dangers of the sport to be that much more humane for the animals. #8 and #16 laid the blame on the fences. I didn't know all racing horses stemmed from 3 stallions. Tracks though, learned a lot about alpaca farming last week and iirc all white peruvian alpacas have a common ancestor too, and a lot of prize winning alpacas (fur quality) in the US stem from just a few sires.

Mother in law owns 3. Mostly for pets, barely for trail riding :P

True, but we're leading them into those fences, those extreme, bleeding edge competitions, pushing these animals so far to the limit that hundreds die every year as a result of the racing portion. We would not put humans through this.

But we banned eugenics.

Wow, damn, you are correct, I will admit clearly I overstated. That is an earned touche.

I think it's fair to rebut however that when us in the west uncover sweatshop practices we do work to condemn them, rout them out, and impose sanctions under the laws with which are... normally lobbied to death by multinational corporations. Hell even some 'red' US states are reintroducing child labor. I guess I was guilty of thinking for a moment we were better than that. Thanks for a slap. Yes corporations like apple like to get away with, and whitewash that kind of **** when it happens. Big scandal for them of course in the 2010s but now in the 2020s its Uighur slave labor accusations, and Apple is suing China over it, but who is to say who is complicit there. I don't remember apple paying any fines to any economy over the earlier sweatshop/suicide scandal. For another time I guess.