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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,110 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    For the sake of global emissions and carbon accountancy, seeing as it`s methane, we could cull a few million cattle. I`m sure every other country would gladly follow our example and the problem would be solved in jig time.

    That would hit economies and cause a problems with food security but sure what harm.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    That's the approach and wanted position. Cattle are being blamed for all sorts of stuff despite the fact that glbal ruminant numbers are relatively stable for many years yet methane emssions only really started climbing in the mid noughties I believe. Around the time fracking became legit. Probably just coincidence



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    As good as a reason as any to move away from fossil fuels 🤷‍♂️



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    Big opportunity for ireland for capital and energy intensive automated manufacturing. The main inputs required are plentiful energy and political stability with strong access to markets through the EU. (Some people here think we should downgrade our relationship with the European Union to avoid having to implement European emissions requirements, so it's entirely consistent that they would oppose building up our manufacturing base like this.)



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,566 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Japan had one power plant with 4 reactors destroyed in 2011.

    80% of the other reactors have stayed offline since then despite Japan's need for power. 12 years to get them up to code (despite people claiming you can go from green field to power in a shorter time) and get the Japanese public onside. Didn't happen. And remember most of those plants were undamaged.



    Nuclear power can't escape politics (see also Italy and Switzerland). Nuclear power can't escape economics and can't escape physics (most of the "new" nuclear is "old" nuclear dipped in glitter until it's working reliably assume it's snakeoil. )

    If you have nuclear you need to be able to handle massive unpredictable extended outages. To do that you need backup / storage and peaking plant and if you have them you might as well go for renewables as they are faster and cheaper.

    Global average uptime for nuclear is just 77% if you don't count Japan's 80% outage for 12 years and counting and France 50% outage last year.



    German nuclear power was not as stable as you'd imagine.


    UK nuclear is in grey

    Finland's new nuclear power plant was supposed to be ready in 2009. Last year they got the same amount of power from wind. And 75% of that wind was completed last year.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Obviously, but it won't happen. Turkmenistan are raking in the cash from these fields. So much so they don't give a hoot that they are flaring millions of cubic meters of it away each year. And there's no sign of their biggest market (China) saying they don't need as much. Or India. Or anywhere over that part of the world#. And Turkmenistan aren't going to shut it down as it brings in the mullah. What's the solution then? A simple tech upgrade and burn the excess gas would cause less damage and they can't even be arsed to do that.

    What I'm saying is, things like this need to be targetted a hell of a lot more than easy pickings like, I dunno, cows



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,110 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    I haven`t seen anybody here looking to curtail our export to the EU or anywhere else other than greens.

    For us there are two problems with energy intensive manufacturing.

    1. We are more or less living hand to mouth where energy is concrned with the IDA saying they are having problems attracting manufacturing industries because of that as it is.
    2. The price of energy in intensive energy manufacturing is a major component when it comes to being competative in the market place. We currently have the most expensive electricity in the E.U. Close to double the EU average, and the next round of RESS auction price being reported as around €150/MWh is not going to make it less expensive.




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,055 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    This moving away from fossil fuels is just empty soundbite for people who cant think. In fact, we will need many times more of fossil fuels to be extracted and used to even attempt to get "green energy" started. Whole carbon neutral is unachievable simply because proposed solutions will require so much carbon emissions and money that it is almost incomprehensible how can anyone actually fall for it.

    This is about US and if we think globally dare to try to multiply costs involved.




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    Popcorn time ... preliminary results of ORESS expected today from Sleepy Ryan. To refresh our memory about what may happen, from the Biz Post:

    Irish auction set to be world’s most expensive for offshore wind energy

    Ireland is set to unveil the world's most expensive offshore wind prices this week when the government announces the results of its first ever offshore wind energy auction. Industry experts believe the results of this very first offshore renewable energy subsidy auction, known as O-RESS 1, will deliver average prices close to the €150 per megawatt hour (MWh) price cap, which is more than triple the price of offshore wind in Scotland and considerably higher than other European countries.  

    If this bears out, the energy generated by the first wave of offshore wind farms in Ireland will be anything but cheap for consumers and will be on par with the unprecedented price of electricity last winter, which was made so expensive by record high gas prices. In Scotland, the latest offshore wind auction delivered projects at below €50/MWh – less than a third of the price Ireland could end up paying. Although €150/MWh is just the price cap figure and will not necessarily be the final cost that emerges from the first O-RESS auction this week, it does set a certain price expectation for the supply chain and will influence auction bids.

    Eamon Ryan, the Climate Minister, will announce Thursday the results of the first O-RESS auction. The six energy companies that submitted bids to the auction will find out if they have been successful at winning state support for their respective projects. Between them, these six projects have the potential to deliver more than 4,000 megawatts (MW) of renewable offshore wind power. They include the 1,500MW Codling Wind Park off the coast of Wicklow, the Oriel wind farm being developed by ESB and Parkwind, and the North Irish Sea Array being developed by Statkraft

    In a technical note, the Commission for Regulation of Utilities (CRU) suggests the state is likely to subsidise around 2,800MW of offshore wind projects under the first O-RESS auction. Once the outcome of the O-RESS auction is revealed, offshore wind developers will have more certainty on their business model and a guaranteed revenue stream once the project is operational.




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    Sorry, we've got one manic link dumper on the thread already, don't have time to wade through all that stuff. However, the Dutch TTF gas price graph did catch my eye -- yours is way out of date, gas prices have dropped another 75% since that one. And speaking of falling prices, about that greentech stuff that you claim is falling like a stone -- just how do you explain ORESS-1?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,743 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    And everyone thought the index-linked £92.5 (circa €106) per MWh that Hinkley Point C has as its strike price was insane..





  • Article from the Daily Telegraph arguing that the backup and storage systems needed for wind and solar aren't feasible at the moment. The cost of a battery storage system seems insanely expensive currently.




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Thing is, nobody is realistically suggesting we use Lithium batteries for large scale (days/weeks) storage. Its for seconds/minutes/hours only

    Its useful for load balancing/frequency and short term back up while other sources "spin up".

    Other options make far more sense. There's some handy graphs around which explain it nicely, few examples below

    As with all storage options, scale, cost and feasibility will determine the best fit for each use case.

    This is exactly the sort of thing where a decision matrix would look at the pro's and con's of each option based on the weighting of each factor for a given use case e.g. if you need something that lasts for weeks then duration of generation is given a higher weighting and so on



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    Gas in ever decreasing proportions is planned as the main fallback from wind and solar until 2040 or later. That is the plan. Everybody knows this. This article doesn’t identify any fundamental flaw in the strategy or anything like it.





  • And when the gas is eventually phased out? What supplies the baseload if a cost effective energy storage solution is not available by then and you get a prolonged calm spell of weather, especially in winter? The author seems to like nuclear power as a possible solution.



  • Registered Users Posts: 680 ✭✭✭US3


    Why is wind three times more expensive in Ireland than Scotland?



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    nNuclear as we know it today is not much use for this, especially not in Irekabd. Perhaps if a suitable alternative reactor is invented then it will be suitable.

    This is the general problem with the future - we don’t know what is going to happen. 20 years seems like a fair bit of time to develop storage and other (potentially nuclear) technologies.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,185 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Some industry rep on earlier suggesting it might come in about half the current prices. Which sounds great, but in reality only back to the comfy margins pre Russian invasion. Ryan would want to be smart here and not leave us wide open to exploitation for years to come, like taking sweets off a baby.





  • Small modular reactors (SMRs) have been proposed as a way round of avoiding the very high capital costs of getting a conventional nuclear power plant built and into operation. Some in the Green movement are advocating nuclear power as a way forward if reducing CO2 emissions is to be done in the short to medium term. 'Ecomodernists' is a term used to describe them.




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,743 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    I don't see why the likes of RR couldn't build SMRs based on their submarine reactors, but when it comes to nuclear electricity it is going to be the likes of EDF calling the shots, and they all have vested interests in building things like EPRs rather than SMRs.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,056 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Ryan is a moron.

    Ideally this process will not conclude until he is either gone from office, or Cabinet make a collective decision on the outcome which supersedes his.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    The main problem with SMRs is that they haven’t been invented yet. They are still just an idea.

    Asmall reactor in a submarine produces plentiful, reliable but very expensive electricity in a very specialised and constrained environment. It just isn’t viable in a commercial context. The reactors that make commercial sense so far are really big ones, not small ones.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    There will be a lot of disappointment on this thread. The auction has come out with fairly low prices, considerably lower than even the current spring wholesale prices.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,848 ✭✭✭?Cee?view


    That’s exactly the stance I’ll be taking to any canvasser that comes near me. In Galway, Fine Gael have been supportive of some of the local Green crazies with the exception of Senator Seán Kyne. He can expect to see his support increase as he’s stood up to their crap.



  • Registered Users Posts: 680 ✭✭✭US3


    But the tax paper is going to subside the 4 companys when the whole sale price of energy is more than the agreed fixed price. Mental stutf





  • Yes, they aren't around yet. The French have plans for a prototype by 2030. Rolls Royce are costing their design at an initial £2.2 billion per unit falling to £1.8 billion as production ramps up. Hoping to have it's first SMR running by the early 2030s, with 10 on stream by 2035.




  • Registered Users Posts: 680 ✭✭✭US3


    Whatever minister was on radio 1 was asked if this would make electricity cheaper for Irish people, she refused to answer and went off on that it's more about energy security



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Only problem is nuclear is prohibited by law here and there are no moves to change that. Good luck to the TD that signs off on a reactor in their locality

    On a side note, the proposed changed to planning legislation would also make it very difficult to object to one going into your local area



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    This might address some of the concerns from some about "panels from china" if this goes ahead

    Eirsun Limited are looking at either Portlaoise or Mullingar for a solar panel factory.




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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The results of the ORESS auction are in.

    4 successful bids totalling over 3GW of offshore power. The average price struck at auction was just over €86 per megawatt hour.

    The projects are: Oriel Wind Park, the Arklow Bank II, the Bray Bank, the Kish Bank, the North Irish Sea Array, the Codling Wind park and the west coast-based Skerd Rocks project.

    A great start. Now if they can get these through the planning system fast enough we could see these up and running well before 2030

    Further auctions are to follow for more projects



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