Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Media silence over Niall Collins story

Options
1272830323347

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,407 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Because that was the version of events which had entered the public domain at that time, new FOI information released has added more to the story. If the Ditch had done their research before publishing, they would have been able to provide the information about the events, they didn’t, so we can only comment on what we have been told. If you look back on my posts, you will see that I said that if more information comes to light, then he could be in trouble, but I do not have a crystal ball, I can only comment on the information available.

    That does not change the fact that you continue to be incapable of differentiating between an expression of interest and a beneficial/material interest in a property. But we live in hope.



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Your timeline doesnt make sense

    According to your timeline he attended a council meeting oficially as a councillor 7 months after he left the council

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,879 ✭✭✭hometruths


    Really? That was the version of events in the public domain at that time?

    Odd then that five days earlier than your post, RTE published a totally contradictory version of events to your version of events:

    On 15 December 2006, Limerick solicitor Patricia O'Connor wrote to Limerick County Council's Department of Housing to express an interest in a specific site on Main Street in Patrickswell.

    Ms O'Connor said she was writing on behalf of "a client", whose name has been redacted in FOI documents.

    She said her client "wishes to provide a centre in Patrickswell to provide a service" - the details of which have also been redacted - and asked the council to explain how the land could be purchased as at that time it was in public ownership.

    Council agrees to put the site on the market

    A few weeks later, on 15 January 2007, the issue was raised at Limerick County Council's Bruff electoral area committee meeting.

    The meeting minutes of that meeting show councillors were told there had been "a number of enquiries to purchase a parcel of land at Main Street in Patrickswell".

    And they were also told the site was three quarters of an acre and had "very limited use as an open space".

    As such, it was agreed by the Bruff electoral area committee to place the site "on the open market" and that officials would update "the meeting again for further consideration".

    That 15 January 2007 meeting was attended by seven councillors, including Mr Collins.

    Mr Collins did not table the motion or second it.

    The meeting minutes are unclear if a formal vote took place, but no objections were raised to the decision.

    What happened to the property in 2007

    Files released today by Limerick County Council show the Patrickswell site was advertised for sale twice in the Limerick Leader in January and February 2007.

    Are you sure you're not just defending your version/interpretation of events, rather than the truth?




  • Registered Users Posts: 14,407 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    What contradiction?

    The only one I can see is that it went to market earlier than I thought, the site sold a year after he left the council.

    Do you think there is some “gotcha” there?

    The foundation of your argument is that he acted corruptly because he had a material/beneficial/pecuniary interest in the property when he attended the local committee meeting where the sale was discussed and a recommendation made to sell the property on the open market, that article makes no reference to him having any such interest.



  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,879 ✭✭✭hometruths


    No gotcha, just pointing out that if you're going to soapbox about defending the truth, it would be better to do so with a true version of events.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭jmcc


    The patience of floating voters with FFG and this kind of stuff is probably coming to an end and there is going to be a shift in sentiment that could cause a major seat loss for FF and FG in the next GE. Even people who had formerly voted FF and FG seem to be, anecdotally, expressing reservations about voting FFG again. One only has to look at the leadership of FFG to understand how standards could have fallen so low in these parties. The floating voters are the demographic that decides the outcome of GEs not party supporters and members.

    Regards...jmcc



  • Registered Users Posts: 86,083 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    From Independent

    Sipo is considering a second complaint against Mr Collins that alleges breaches of the Local Government Act 2001 by the Minister of State for Skills and Further Education.

    The complaint has been made by Kristofer Shekleton, a lobbyist and former Fianna Fáíl member. It comes in addition to a complaint made by People Before Profit TD Paul Murphy who alleges breaches of the same act and the code of conduct for councillors.

    (A second Sipo complaint, plus AGS examining allegations yet MM backing him while others had to resign, this is not going away)



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭jmcc


    If things go against Collins, it could have implications for Martin's position.

    Regards...jmcc

    Post edited by jmcc on


  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Complaints to SIPO and Gardai just mean complaints.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,879 ✭✭✭hometruths


    His only chance of getting a "Nothing to see here" from SIPO is if issues of this nature are time barred. If SIPO is obliged to investigate the issue irrespective of when it occurred, he's going to be found guilty of a breach of ethics legislation.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 9,127 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    The loyal tip-the-cap FFG voters on here will never see any wrong and can't wait to lift Collins on their shoulders but the optics for floating voters are very bad. SIPO won't do anything anytime soon (under resourced and lacking in powers) and FFG will continue to block reform like the 2015 bill but he will lose his seat and FFG will have to enter an election with the stench of cronyism and corruption all around them.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    What? How do you know that SIPO will find against him? SIPO isn't a court either by the way. They don't find people guilty.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,879 ✭✭✭hometruths


    OK, they will find he breached ethics legislation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,641 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,024 ✭✭✭Sheep breeder


    Agree with what your saying about the FFG vote losing ground, in our house would have being 5 votes for FF with the father, now it is a independent and others votes, the next generation of younger have no interest in voting. Next election will see changing times for the FFG parties



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,024 ✭✭✭Sheep breeder


    Regarding the stench personally think that will be ramped up at election time, the loyal tip the cap lads can’t see anything else only the party, we live in a different country now with people more worried about funding buying a house and life than worrying about politics. Due to people seeing more of this cronyism coming to the fore all the time, question for tip the cap lads on here if a poll was done in the morning on age per voters brackets how many young people or 30 to 40year olds would known their TD in their area.



  • Registered Users Posts: 679 ✭✭✭US3


    I think Collins more serious offence was the time he was voting in the Dáil for members who weren't present. That goes against democracy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,330 ✭✭✭✭Overheal




  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭pjcb




  • Registered Users Posts: 23,968 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    No, in fact they will not.

    Far too many people are willing to listen to people who speak in a very serious and hushed tone of voice and assume that what they are saying must be the truth.

    If events elsewhere in the last 24 hours demonstrate anything, it is to believe half of what you read, a little less of what you hear and not to rush to judgement at the court of social media masquerading as media media.

    The abandonment of due process seems to be fine, so long as its happening to someone else......



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,879 ✭✭✭hometruths


    If events elsewhere in the last 24 hours demonstrate anything, it is to believe half of what you read, a little less of what you hear and not to rush to judgement at the court of social media masquerading as media media

    What did I miss elsewhere?



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,937 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭jmcc



    The problem with people supporting political parties as if they were soccer teams is that most voters in the real world are not so dedicated. FFG is facing into a perfect storm of a GE in that their support is down on their 2020 GE vote. Varadkar has been a disaster for FG and has lost seats for FG at every Dail election since he was installed as FG leader despite the majority of the FG party voting for Coveney. Martin lost what should have been a sure-thing GE because he was busy trying to be the best little FGer he could be and under him, FF has lost its identity. His comments on Paddy Cosgrave in the Dail have now been referred to SIPO. Ministers have been forced to resign.

    The electorate has changed and it is no longer as accepting of cronyism and gombeenism. Collins is doubly toxic for FFG in that this isn't just the issue about planning permission for a home. It is also about property speculation. That's quite toxic in the middle of a Housing Crisis and even the legacy media is covering it.

    While it does not look like SF will get a majority government on the present opinion polls, the continued pressure on FFG from The Ditch will give voters a moment of pause in the ballot box. And in that moment those floating may decide not to vote for an FFG candidate. The political landscape may look very different after the next GE and some dedicated FFG supporters could find that their teams have been relegated.

    Regards...jmcc



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,469 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The problem with people supporting political parties as if they were soccer teams is that most voters in the real world are not so dedicated

    The irony in this is ridiculous. The schadenfreude displayed here and the absolute refusal to accept patiently described realities because they fly in the face of what you want is being displayed by only one "side" in the last few weeks. The dedication to a "side" is coming from those anti-everything to do with the government. So let's not pretend like you are someone taking the high ground.

    FF and FG and especially the Greens are almost certainly going to lose seats and quite possibly won't form the next government. I do not care - what I care about is pushing for a political discourse that at least relies in some way on considered thought and acceptance of facts.



  • Administrators Posts: 53,707 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    We really have reached this low point in the thread now, haven't we?

    "Niall Collins is definitely a criminal!"

    The facts are presented, which demonstrate quite clearly that Niall Collins is not a criminal.

    "Niall Collins voted to sell land to his wife!"

    The facts are presented, which demonstrate quite clearly that Niall Collins did not vote to sell any land to his wife.

    "Niall Collins is corrupt!"

    The facts are presented, which demonstrate quite clearly that Niall Collins had no influence whatsoever on the outcome of this process.

    "FFG people are just desperate! Legacy media! Panic! What about Michael Martin? Leo lost seats!"



  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,879 ✭✭✭hometruths


    Are you still disputing the fact that Collins took part in a meeting in which it was decided to offer the land for sale?

    Or have you least accepted that much is true?



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,330 ✭✭✭✭Overheal




  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,879 ✭✭✭hometruths




  • Administrators Posts: 53,707 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    How can I accept something to be true which is absolutely incorrect?

    Niall Collins attended a meeting of the LEA. A LEA cannot offer land for sale. It is impossible. It has no legal authority to do this. It is amazing that after 30 pages of this thread this is still not understood.

    The land could not be sold without a vote of the full council.

    Niall Collins did NOT attend this vote. This is an irrefutable fact.

    Niall Collins had zero input as to who the winning bidder on this land was. This is an irrefutable fact.

    Niall Collins had zero input as to how much the land was sold for. This is an irrefutable fact.

    Repeating the same thing over and over and over again will make it no less inaccurate than the very first time it was posted.

    Niall Collins DID fail to recuse himself from a meeting at which a councillor proposed the land be recommended for sale, and another councillor seconded it. The only impact Niall Collins could have had on this entire process would have been to object to the sale at this meeting of the LEA.



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,469 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    There was no legal "offer" as the meeting he sat in has no power to legally offer land for sale. They made a recommendation.

    You may consider this semantics, but all law is semantics if you want to go down that road.



Advertisement