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Foundation (Apple) [** SPOILERS **]

12467

Comments

  • Site Banned Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    I read a few foundation novels about 20 years ago. The series obviously departs this.

    I like the actor who plays Harry Sheldon. Superb actor but have not seen a huge amount of him by episode 8

    While parts of this are entertaining (especially scenes with Sheldon or the older emperors) I'm not sure id commit to a season 2.

    It just plods at times.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 87,872 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    Holt McCallany and Ben Daniels are in for season 2



  • Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭Useless Lump


    I’m guessing McCallany is going to be Hober Mallow.

    first though about Daniels is the Mule but not sure why I think that - season 2 would be too early.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,694 ✭✭✭corkie


    @Useless Lump

    Ben Daniels (The Exorcist) as Bel Roise: He is the last great general of the Superliminal Fleet and would-be conqueror of the Foundation. Bel is noble to a fault, but his fealty to the Galactic Empire is waning.

    Holt McCallany (Mindhunter) as Warden Jaegger Fount: He is the current Warden of Terminus and guardian of its citizens against external threats.

    Spoilers: - https://tvline.com/2022/02/01/foundation-season-2-first-photo-cast-additions-ben-daniels/



  • Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭Useless Lump


    I was going to chastise you for posting spoilers (confirming casting is a spoiler, I was just posting a thought) but then I realise it is a spoiler thread so it is my own fault.

    they are making Roise older than in the books.

    the costumes in season one where fantastic. Costume designer is Irish I think.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,394 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    Only found out about this recently. It looks fantastic. Would love to watch it. I do not have Apple TV.

    Is there anywhere else I can watch it?

    My usual site will not work as it is out too long 😞

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Posts: 8,385 [Deleted User]


    With Foundation be prepared for an adaption to give it more of a distinct narrative. It's an adaption where necessary changes were made (my own opinion of course) to make it work as a TV show.

    Changes don't seem to be by committee, or such, but to work as a show.


    Also it's very well shot and very pretty but at times over lingering, which slows everything down.

    It's a show which you don't realise has completely hooked you until you watch the last episode and start thinking "Feck, it's finished?? Balls"



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    With the First World burden of so much Peak TV, I've only very recently remembered this was ever on my watchlist. Finally got around to taking a look at the thing, watching it as someone who knows of the books - but never read them.

    Watched Episode 1 and as the trailers suggested, it was wonderfully baroque space opera in its trappings and setting, full of pomp and splendour ... but ye gods the plot and momentum was dense to the point of being impenetrable. Enjoyment of the world(s) was tempered by lots and lots of blather very clumsily delivered; all made worse by the fact this opening episode had to both establish a whole universe - then imply it's about to collapse. Hard enough to teach of a whole Galactic empire and its custom, without then jamming a bunch of technowaffle maths into it as well. Maybe the opening episode should have spent most of its time establishing the status quo, then only show the cracks at the very end, as a tease.

    And while the visuals were sumptuous, with great use of Irish locations like the Long Library, or Powerscourt, some of the editing kept erratically jump cutting, never allowing moments or interactions to settle.



  • Posts: 8,385 [Deleted User]


    Read my above, you will only realise how hooked you are, when you finish.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    We'll see. As opening episodes go, I was intrigued by the world and some of its players, but that was despite the execution. Too much front-loading so maybe with that out of the way, the rest of the season won't be so drowned by infodumping. You could hinge a whole show on that trio of emperors alone - and I presume we'll return to that weird parallel relationship.

    Was great to see Alexander Siddig in a small part though; thought the guy had aged well 'til I realised he's only 56.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Episode 2 and that left me with a distinct response of, "wait, what??" by episode's end. Clearly structured to wrong foot the viewer but assuming what I saw was true, it's funny how even in Streaming shows some clichés remain...

    The most famous and/or prestigious actor in the cast gets bumped off cos they'll cost too much to keep them around otherwise.

    The stronger, more fascinating material was the Empire - and TBH you don't need Mathematicians to see an empire starting to wane, with rash actions like those taken by Lee Pace. I almost got a little irritated when we kept returning to the exile ship, with our damp squib of a lead. The power dynamic between the three clones was fascinating to watch



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Episodes 3 and 4 and this show is quite something; I am constantly left in a state of befuddlement, internally wondering "am I supposed to know what the f*ck is going on??". But not in the manner of something like Westworld, where superficial pontificating was used instead of actual story; here it feels like the pieces are all there ... but they're pieces from 3 different boardgames and somebody threw out the instructions.

    I think I'm enjoying this but uhhhh, what's going on?? And there has still not been half as much Trantor scenes as there should be; watching the brothers try desperately arrest the erosion of their own empire has been the most fascinating, most magnetic part of this.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Episodes 5 and 6 and the sixth was definitely the point where this show started to click with me; but as has often been the case, mostly for the Empire and the trio of Emperors. The whole subplot on the Moon with Brother Day was the show at its height, full of pomp and bombast in the best fashion. The Terminus material just doesn't work as well for me; I can't put my finger on what it is that isn't clicking there.

    Yeah I get it; it's a slow burn of a show but things are starting to click a little more. It's definitely not in any great rush to tell its story, but the more I've drifted into this universe the more fascinating it has become. Maybe that's why Terminus doesn't work: it's the árse end of the galaxy and as far from all the baroque, exotic stuff as you can get.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Episodes 7 and 8 and damn, that last scene. Should have left it at the dining table perhaps but that eighth episode was excellent stuff; the whole aspect with Brother Day kept me thinking maybe, maybe it was hinting at a shift in personality through hardship endured ... and then that rug-pull at the end. Day's such a díck.

    And yeah yeah, there was stuff with the ship, blergh. Though things did nicely ramp up there I will admit, even though the convenient room of open acid vats was like something out of a video game.

    Gail continues to charm her way into an airlock without a suit mind you. Way to go you plank, that's the backup ruined. Jesus.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Episodes 9 and 10; the season all done. Definitely a show that finished stronger than it started, and often overcame its larger, noisier flaws during that time. Wouldn't say that I'm completely hooked, in that I'm all-in like I was with The Expanse for instance ... but this was and remains a very singular beast for all the reasons I mentioned in ... uhhh, the only replies to this thread for the last 2 months lol 😂 Just for the production design alone this show is worth one's eyeballs; such a rich tapestry of futurevisions.

    Said it already, but the Empire subplot has been this show's strength, with Lee Pace and his "brothers" doing so much of the dramatic heavy lifting. While anything with Gail felt like tedium. To the extent that the big resolution of Trantor's slowly ambling story was genuinely a bit shocking - and a little heartbreaking. Didn't think I'd find myself feeling sorry for Day: Dawn sure, the audience was asked quite openly to root for his little rebellion; but the small but important change of heart in Day's thinking was immediately punished - while also being told things were even worse than one defective brother.

    Also, gotta respect the show's sense of scale that it had no problem with those various time-jumps: about 175 years covered across Season 1, so presumably we'll have a whole-new cast in Season 2. With the obvious exceptions of the people conveniently long-lived, cloned - or had access to stasis pods lol. It'll be fascinating to see what "kind" of Cleons we get this time around.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    For those like me who had zero preexisting knowledge of the book series, this (admittedly long) deep dive into the series has been interesting. I like the YT channel as it stands, and the video basically reflects my own thoughts on the series, albeit as a book-ignorant one: that the Empire plot was genuinely good, the rest of it middling to kinda awful - though I hadn't realised just how deviant from the books the tone of some aspects were. The Terminus stuff in particular.




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭Slydice


    I might be jumping to conclusions but seeing two maybe-coffin shaped pods and only one empire there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,413 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    Think I’ll wait for it to end the season before I watch. Found it very slow in places to be a weekly watch.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,360 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Really curious if this will be a complete divergence from the books going forward as regards what the crisis are based around. I know they have already started to play with time a bit but if they stick even a little bit the the timespan between each crisis we will need a lot of new actors each season after season 2. For instance in the books the second crisis is around 30 years later, and the third roughly 80 beyond that.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    I'd hope so, if only 'cos it'd mean the writers would then truly have to get rid of Gaal and Salvor. Mind you, with David Goyer at the helm they'd still manage to come up with equally irritating replacements.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,167 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    I must actually finish season 1. I thought it was interesting but didn't hook me as much as it hooked others.

    I read a couple of the books years ago when a kid. I thought they had interesting ideas but that Asimov himself wasn't a great writer. (Don't hate me. It's just my opinion. I know he's revered). I mean I also loved his Robot stories, but again thought they were pretty clunky from time to time. I mean much of this is because of when they were written (And the fact that most of the robot stories were short stories)



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 9,030 Mod ✭✭✭✭mewso


    Too much use of stasis pods to make me believe they will do anything other than contrive a way to have their favoured characters stick around. It seems non-readers enjoyed the show and it is probably the kind of series I would enjoy if it didn't have the foundation name attached. As it is I doubt I'll watch season 2 unless I hear amazing things.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,394 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    Is this show availible on DVD or Blu-Ray? I have looked for it with no luck. Have the firthree three episodes watched and could watch the rest online but would prefer to see it on Physical media much easier and it's worth it.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    On rewatch I'm liking their storylines more, actually!



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    How come? I just found Salvor a really tedious Chosen One YA style hero; dunno why they're always written to be so obnoxious.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Brother Day storyline is "where's this going?", once you know then there's not much more there. Find the parts about the Mother tedious this time round.

    Way more moving parts with Brother Dawn's arc and the differences.

    Terminus has the Foundation, Null Field, Sal, Hugo, Huntress and crew. It's a bit more generic but much more going on between action, prophetic math, and the beginning of the fall.

    Gaal's is still weak but only getting to her run on the ship solo, properly again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    feck sake. I watched season one and did enjoy it but feel like I’ve totally forgotten 87.67% of it.

    Watching that trailer gets me excited , actually had an old “aliens” movie feel to the music.

    Do I have to watch it all again? Feel like if I don’t I will be lost.

    I loved the clone dynamics/story. The explosion of the bridge/lift to space was spectacular if I remember it right. Has great potential .

    I really like lee pace, find him absorbing as an actor. Harris chews up any scene, he was part of the reason I even gave this a look in first place.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭Slydice


    Aaaaaahh.. there'll probably be a recap or two up on youtube or somewhere.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    New trailer has appeared; more Empire please, less warmed up Chosen One Bollix. That'd be nice, but still looking forward to season 2 all the same.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,360 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Its only a trailer but seems to look like this will be a complete divergence from the books going forward.

    Im interested still and hope as you do for more empire stuff as that was by far the most interesting story arc in S1



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Given my distaste for Rings of Power and Wheel of Time completely ripping up the source material, I can understand people's annoyance.


    I've not read all of the source works and am enjoying the show but it doesn't matter that the source was not great for direct adaption. They should have just made a different IP.

    Asimov isn't THAT popular nowadays that they had to have the Foundation name attached



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,360 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    I completely agree, its a similar although not as disaterous situation as happened to Terry Pratchett's Night Watch adaptation for BBC America, that show smacks of some show runner wanting to make a medieval, slightly magical, detective show with very specific themes and characters that to gain an immediate audience they decided to ram it into one of discworlds most beloved group of characters while changing absolutely everything about what made the charcters special, unique and adored.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    I'm inclined as moderator to infract that post for even reminding us that Watch "adaptation" ever existed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,360 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Id consider that fair, I apologise to everyone



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Another new trailer has arrived




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,360 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Lots of Cleon so im happy.

    I wonder if that's possibly The Mule at 1:25?



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Lee Pace must have so much to work with, basically playing multiple characters without ever having to share a set with "himself". By far the best character and hopefully the trailer isn't a tease and we do indeed spend more time with him/them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭Slydice


    Looks like they're gonna be a fight.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    And yet another new trailer? I guess Apple wanna push this one.

    Whatever about the faithfulness (or lack?) of the adaptation or the tedious Chosen One garbage, this remains a very handsome, gorgeous show, one that leans into the Opera part of Space Opera.




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,413 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    I enjoyed it so far. It’s slow so may not be for everyone but I don’t mind that in sci-fi.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭Slydice


    Feels so fresh to me 🙂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 150 ✭✭spuddy01


    Just finished the 1st season on wed bit of a binge. But quite enjoyed the show looking forward to the 2nd season.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    First episode dropped today, FYI



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,694 ✭✭✭corkie


    Thanks for the notice!

    Spoilers in the below for the first episode of season 2.

    Edit: - The show definitely threw us back in at deep end, with what seemed at first disconnect story lines.

    Post edited by corkie on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,291 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    Good episode. The empire storyline is still the best and the acting talents of Harris still seem wasted



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Caught that first episode and intriguing enough; certainly continues from the first season in that the Empire material was infinitely more interesting and gripping than all the Chosen One, superpower nonsense of Gail & Salvor (sic). It remains such a weak aspect of the show, and its thrust continues to undercut the whole point of Harry's grand plan. No one person is important in the grand scheme of the plan ... except for those that do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,973 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    Harris does seem wasted.

    Everytime I see Lee Pace all I can think about pies.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭Slydice


    2.1: Oh that was good! This story feels so new. Jared Harris feels like he's really putting a lot in as well. Really felt like they build on how trashed he had been by Gaal in the first season. Had me remembering Ian McKellen stuck in his prison in X-Men at first.

    The mega structure rings around the planet looked so cool!

    At the start, that

    fight was shocking and later the eyeless assassins and how Empire was getting married and all how it was shown

    combined with Gaal and Salvor talking the time passing and their ages

    that was some good handling of such a complex story

    Really feels like there's gonna be a big space battle or more coming up



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    God, I'm glad this is back. It looks as good as ever.

    Pieces have been set nicely, new players introduced, and new world order explained. Fantastic way to introduce the 2nd season.

    Apple are knocking it out of the park, with their sci-fi.

    Considering how, as a tech company, I hate them; I'm loving the streaming direction



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