FEC committee & final report - UPDATE post 442

Cass · 04-05-2023 8:40pm

Exactly, loaded questions.

Grizzly 45 · 04-05-2023 9:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120555952#Comment_120555952

It's a stupid and badly thought question on whoever put this together part on security.

Because if you have a dealer level of security checked off by aGS, we might as well all apply then for dealerships off the DOJ as our security is compatible!

This would be great,as you could then have unlimited stock of arms and ammo. Wait 6/12 months and apply for your restricted dealer's license, CF handguns and semi-auto,and huge calibre rifles anyone?Who says you have to sell them in Ireland?As a gun dealer, you are perfectly entitled to trade and sell internationally and import and export stock.

Going by a total " baby" gundealer who recently got his license,if AGS is happy with your security and character, and they must be if you have a substantial amount of firearms needing this security level.The DOJ cant really refuse you a dealer license in that case.

This is a prime example of "the law of unintended consequences!" when applied to firearms legislation.

As for training and all the rest Disagree,as whatever we do in the public perception or media we are dammed if we do and dammed if we don't.So unless there is a discussion on how this should be achieved ,and not just an "owl and the ants" proclimation from on high we might as well give them two fingers [unlike digger bucket and chainsaw man,who is probably laughing himself silly as a lot of this is his wet dream legislation back in the SCovi days]

Gumbo · 04-05-2023 9:45pm

One example. Whoever put this consultation together should be appalled at the wording used.

What happened to the public service commitment to use plain English.

emphasis on “should not” be conditioned!

Grizzly 45 · 04-05-2023 9:59pm

justiceeiresurveys.qualtrics.com Looks like some Jobsworthy in the Dept got foisted with this and just took the entire FC report and stuck a multiple choice answer box under the cut&pasted pertinent paragraphs. Cheap & nasty work.

garrettod · 04-05-2023 11:01pm

None of this takes away from the fact that the Minister has rolled it out, and can now claim that he gave everyone a chance to offer their opinion..... He's one step closer to his end goal!

Grizzly 45 · 05-05-2023 11:34am

On a lighter note,but still with ge on filling out govt surveys like this,and it does seem that our political masters do use this programme sometimes as a manual on how to work a govt.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahgjEjJkZks&pp=ygUxeWVzIG1pbmlzdGVyIGZvciBhbmQgYWdhaW5zdCB0aGUgbmF0aW9uYWwgc2VydmljZQ%3D%3D

Zxthinger · 07-05-2023 10:35am

Lithuanian laws have been recently relaxed to allow allow full auto firearms in private ownership while we are here arguing about and extra round in a rimfire pistol.. lol

I know they have there reasons for releasing these firearms for private sale but prior to this they had SA Centrefire Rifles and centrefire pistols and no issues.. We are here dealing with nonsense pertaining to a lowering of the legal stature of our air rifles while other countries are just properly licensing their ‘law abiding folk’ and monitoring the situation.

We have all heard the cry from the PTB that Deer need to be culled yet they’re aiming to removed the optimum tool for pest management..

Does any of this actually make any sense. What is it that they think they are hold long back..

?

Grizzly 45 · 07-05-2023 12:57pm

The former E blocs realised the advantage a long time ago of being armed when they had the joys of 60-odd years of Moscow's boot on their necks.Its also that they are more bolshie than the rest of the EU countries on these issues as they are not too happy swooping a dictatorship of Brussels with the one in the Kremlin.Esp if they could be the frontline countries if the Russian bear decides to have another swipe at empire building sometime.

Gumbo · 07-05-2023 2:42pm

https://www.thejournal.ie/gun-ownership-ireland-6060473-May2023/

solarwinds · 07-05-2023 5:02pm

That is some article. Is there some Dept. just handing out pre written articles for print.

Another example of the slow drip feed of negativity included in the article.

TheEngineer1 · 07-05-2023 7:03pm

Have any of the FURG groups released statements regarding, or made people aware of on social media, the Dept of Justice survey? Even if it is completely loaded against the shooting community (Lack of questions on SACF rifles and CF pistols is very telling. I can't see anyone in government passing amendments for this up and coming criminal justice act to remove the reference to SACF rifles).I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere.

BSA International · 07-05-2023 10:14pm

One thing for sure we will have more restrictions heaped on us and will get no concessions.......irregardless of this joke consultation or any other with FURG or anyone else. This is already in the pipeline !

tonysopprano · 07-05-2023 10:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120565595#Comment_120565595

Just like in 2008, where a criminal event, with illegal firearms, was used to stamp on our necks, this article is using the actions of 1 mentally deficient being, (however unsavory or regrettable) to again stamp on our necks, despite there being "According to published figures from An Garda Síochána in 2020, there were 208,835 active gun licences.", held by THE MOST LAW-ABIDING members of society, who did not kill their wives or kids or neighbours AND -deleted-

If only the Garda Siochana had a record, as good as ours.

Zxthinger · 07-05-2023 11:30pm

Maybe they should get people to do courses on Axe ownership and knife usage.. and the correct storage for car jack and Hurley sticks..

Im not going to forced to join a gun club..

Anyway, how would that stop a potential incident..

If they want a similar system to NI with hunter mentorship then theyd want to be offering everything else that exists in NI..

garrettod · 09-05-2023 11:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120566565#Comment_120566565

Very good question - haven't seen Jack, from any of them 😒🥵

berettaman · 10-05-2023 1:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120552726#Comment_120552726

There is a lot going on from Rep groups, not a lot of it is in the open.

😉

Grizzly 45 · 10-05-2023 1:35pm

I bet that student rag posing as a "newspaper" AKA The journal didn't expect the overwhelmingly "negative" comments to this twisted tat of an article. The journal.ie, Buzz.ie, Irish central.ie are all anti-gun "papers"[,if we could give them that title] with little to no influence.

TheEngineer1 · 10-05-2023 2:48pm

There's a thread on the r/Ireland sub-Reddit atm regarding the SACF ban, vast majority of the comments support continuing allowing them to be licensed surprisingly enough. There is no public support for this ban.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/13cyck3/semi_automatic_rifle_ban/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

Only certain members of AGS (who are not answerable to the electorate) are pushing for this.

There shooting community don't support it, and the general public doesn't support it.

Asus1 · 10-05-2023 3:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120579502#Comment_120579502

Had a look at that there.Its always funny to see people making up stories in their head then putting it online thinking their story which they made up will be taken as gospel.I won't say which person is lying,have a look yourself it won't be hard to see.I see some like to use weapons instead of firearms as well so it's probably going down that path.

Feisar · 11-05-2023 12:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120579569#Comment_120579569

In fairness a lot of people including those on our side of the fence use the term weapon. I specifically remember a Beretta Urika being described as "some weapon of a yoke". Clearly the gentleman meant it was a nice handling gun, for a semi.

Zxthinger · 11-05-2023 12:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120579569#Comment_120579569

What’s funny?

Not have a go at you Auss but I’ll tell what funny. Claims that thermal can’t distinguish between a bird at 20m and a fox at 200m.

Also, contradictory statements to that above with more nonsense claims that a thermal will allow people shoot further and as such it will have a cohort of shooters shooting at dangerous distances because of its effectiveness..

We all have day scopes that let us see everything and we can see further than we can see with any thermal and further than any rifles effective range yet it’s not a problem.. we are Lar all out shooting deer at 600 yards.

Maybe it would be funny to limit us to iron sights and 22 rifles while banning night shooting and banning thermal altogether ormaking it compulsory to be in a club, making insurance mandatory and forcing us to carry signed copies of our permissions while we are out..

Perhaps we will ring AGS and tell them we will be in Micky Joe’s top field lamping on 18 Aug.

Maybe it will e funny when anyone with a semi auto is harmed in with storage conditions similar to a restricted dealer..

Thats after doing a 120hr course and then working your way up to 22 in stages with a mentor.

Don’t for get to have yer ammo locked in a separate box in a different part of the vehicle when travelling to farm x or y to drop a few rabbits..

Maybe it will be funny when a NV scopes are fudged into the restricted list and we all need monitor alarms as tye three rifles wity NV scopes now becomes six firearms lol..

Maybe it’s funny that the clowns had an opportunity to suggest that large crossbows be taken off the restricted list and yet they failed to do that one thing..

Ha it would make ye cry..

The cops couldn’t manage the administration related to half the bollockzz in the reports..

The county is on its knees with red tape.

Its this way the true path of a modern western nations that based on freedom and equality for all..

I think not.. the whole affair is tinged with cronyism and self serving interests..

It’s the same as the cry for a deer cull. They want to make an industry out of it and Gormely wants more trees to combat the Global warming that never happened, the 33.7 deg max for 1865 Dublin that they won’t acknowledge, the cLIEmate crap that’s not real that’s been rebranded now as energy independence..

Blah blah blah..

Give me air rifles sub 18ftilbs with one time licence and one off official registration fee.

Give me reloading like every other English speaking civilised country

Get large crossbows off the restricted lists and leave me alone to enjoy my life.

Rant over..

Feisar · 11-05-2023 8:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120581515#Comment_120581515

...

Grizzly 45 · 11-05-2023 12:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120577467#Comment_120577467

Work in progress on the answers to the submission on the way. But Jeeze its slow because every I must be dotted and examined and T crossed just right to get the maximum effect from all participants IOW we don't want target shooting guys saying "Meh, doesn't affect me what the hunting guys are affected by!" And vice versa. And both put down an ambivalent answer.

Get everyone, friends and family to fill in this BTW, you can apparently have five responses from one ISP addy. We need both quantity and quality when this is launched.

BattleCorp · 11-05-2023 4:47pm

Has anyone here actually researched what is involved if the Government bring in the requirement for people with x number of firearms to have secure storage arrangements similar to a dealer's strong room? This is a recommendation contained in Report Two of the FEC, see below.

The construction requirements for a firearms dealer's strong room are pretty severe - and would be extremely cost prohibitive for most people. Below are just some of the requirements. Click the link at the bottom of the post to see all of the requirments. We could be saddled with all of them, and not just the ones listed below.

Construction requirements for strong room

5. (1) In the case of storage of firearms, a firearms dealer shall ensure that all firearms in the premises are stored in a strong room which complies with the following requirements:

(a) the walls, floor and ceiling shall be constructed as outlined hereunder and shall be secured from unauthorised access as follows:

(i) the walls of the strong room shall be constructed of either solid reinforced concrete at least 225mm thickness or solid, bonded block or brick at least 325mm thickness;

(ii) the floor shall be constructed of either solid reinforced concrete with a minimum depth of 150mm or solid, bonded block/brick at least 300mm in depth;

(iii) the ceiling shall consist of either solid reinforced concrete at least 150mm thickness or solid, bonded block or brick at least 300mm thickness;

(b) for existing walls, floors and ceilings that do not meet these requirements, provision shall be made to upgrade to such a standard so that the Commissioner is satisfied that it provides a resistance to attack equivalent to the above by utilising further additional measures to each non-compliant area to include the use of steel mesh, block, brick or reinforced concrete;

(c) ventilation holes, where necessary, shall be staggered, such that no line of sight exists from the exterior to the interior of the building;

(d) the strong room shall have no other openings, other than the entrance door, opening outwards;

(e) the entrance door to the strong room shall have a time-lock mechanism and be either—

(i) a manufactured steel door, with supporting surround, each of which is certified to fulfil the requirements of I.S. EN 1627 (minimum security grade 4) or equivalent, or

(ii) a door individually custom-fabricated of sheet steel to such a standard that the Commissioner is satisfied that it provides a resistance to attack equal to that provided by the above standard;

(f) the strong room shall be incorporated into the intruder detection system of the premises and operate on a separate 24 hour guard;

(g) the strong room shall be locked except when accessed under the direct supervision of the firearms dealer or his employees;

(h) outside of normal opening hours the time-lock shall be engaged;

(i) access to the strong room by members of the public shall be limited and shall only be permitted under the direct supervision of the firearms dealer or his employees;

(j) any steel or ferrous doors, fittings, sheeting, grill or shelving in any part of the strong room where ammunition or explosives are stored, shall be coated, painted or lined to prevent bare metal or rust from being exposed.

The legislation is S.I. No 646 of 2017 if anyone wants to read the full storage requirements for firearms dealers. https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2017/si/646/

This will be some pile of shyte if it comes in. You can shoot all you want as long as you are very well off.

I priced construction of a strong room that is 4m x 4m (similar in size to a medium sized bedroom) and it was over €10k. That's over €10k for walls, roof, floor and door only. The roof was just bare concrete because it was to be built inside an already waterproof shed. Obviously costs change depending on the type of vault door you buy, whether you construct it using concrete blocks or mass reinforced concrete etc. Alarms/CCTV/heating/electrics etc all cost more. €20k probably wouldn't cover everything.

Grizzly 45 · 11-05-2023 6:18pm

If you have to go that far in this proposed future legislation...There are gonna be a Hell of a lot of new gun dealers in Ireland! As you have now got 90% of the cost of setting up a dealership behind you in that construction,so you might as well go the whole hog and start recuperating costs by selling firearms. Law of unintended consequences.

A question that should be answered Strongly Disagree by everyone,as there is no definition of what a "substantial amount" of firearms are? Someone might say 5 is "substantial" or someone else might say it's 50!

Grizzly 45 · 11-05-2023 6:28pm

Some positive news for a change.

https://www.anglocelt.ie/2023/05/08/smyth-calls-on-minister-to-meet-gun-sport-reps/?fbclid=IwAR1-K7H6BSTY6coMB4Y6RQbC0wIjOhYSbZi8HcpVColnaTJdZ5kAwZtv0Mo

Vizzy · 11-05-2023 6:58pm

Not really great/positive news Grizzly.

Both of the TD's that replied to my email have asked the Minister by way of PQ for the exact same thing.

Problem is that the Minister is refusing to meet anyone prior to the closure of the consultation period ( as you probably know)

I'm convinced that if the farmers rowed in behind us, then we might have some hope of making an impact, but unfortunately the modern young farmer only sees hunters as a bit of nuisance which is a major change from 20 or 30 years ago.

Cal Ward · 11-05-2023 7:57pm

https://ruralpursuits.ie/my-reasons-for-withdrawing-my-support-for-the-fec/

Grizzly 45 · 11-05-2023 8:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120584470#Comment_120584470

Stange then that he said he'd meet the IFA no bother.

BattleCorp · 11-05-2023 9:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120584899#Comment_120584899

The IFA is a very large organisation. Farmers have lots of votes.

Us target shooters, we can go fcuk ourselves.

Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information

FEC committee & final report - UPDATE post 442

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Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information

FEC committee & final report - **UPDATE post 442**

Comments

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

FEC committee & final report - UPDATE post 442