Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

ambro25 · 04-05-2023 2:04pm

Ireland may well have these legacy (capacity-related) and property-based restrictive factors mitigating against a strong development of UPC practice domestically, but the opportunities for the Irish profession lie more at the European scale of the construct, precisely for the reasons which you outlined, @[Deleted User] (native English speaking, proximity of legal training/system/practice).

The Irish IP profession may be very small relative to EN/FR/DE, but these have absolutely nothing on its quality and reputation (I should know 😉), and the USP of EU-based EU-qualified IP professionals is that they can act pretty much anywhere in the EU before national UPC courts (…which is a tad more difficult for visa-requiring UK professionals).

Luxembourg has the exact same issue of astronomical pricing on the property side of things (€15k/sqm minimum), but it’s hardly like Monaco or Lichtenstein where every local is a millionaire. Doesn’t stop talent flogging in: talent and their employers find a way.

Edit to add: costs awards in the UPC are statutorily-capped. That’s not a panacea of course, but the empirical evidence of the approach where it is practiced (e.g. IPEC in UK), is that it biases legal costs down. After that, and in a UPC context (-to come), your mileage may vary of course. DE and FR legal costs in the IP (patent) sphere are usually lower than GB, likewise the awards and the level of damages…though France is fast ratcheting up and now frequently high-scoring on this last point. Methinks they’ve spotted a ‘European Texas’ opportunity for patent litigation, and started to position accordingly.

retalivity · 08-05-2023 11:43am

Another Brexit benefit incoming, Revolut looking to move their HQ out of London

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/05/07/kemi-badenoch-emergency-meeting-revolut-fears-leave-uk/?utm_content=politics&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1683484049-2

"Kemi Badenoch, the Business Secretary, is seeking an emergency meeting with Revolut over fears the $33bn (£26bn) technology company may abandon the UK amid frustration with high taxes and red tape.

Sources at the Department for Business and Trade confirmed that it wanted to meet with Nikolay Storonsky, chief executive of Revolut, just days after he attacked Britain’s “extreme bureaucracy”.

Officials in France and Spain are understood to have courted Revolut, which is headquartered in London, in recent weeks as bosses grow increasingly frustrated over delays in securing a UK banking licence.

A spokesman for Revolut said: “We’re a British company and London is our home.” The spokesman did not respond when asked whether Revolut would accept the Business and Trade Department’s request for a meeting.

Mr Storonsky launched a barrage of criticism against Britain on Friday, saying it was hard to do business and would never choose London as a place to list the company."

MBSnr · 08-05-2023 3:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120569222#Comment_120569222

Not sure it's Brexit related TBH. Revolut blame the UK regulator for being too slow in granting the bank licence. Industry insiders say Revolut is being quizzed on why there was a delay to the publishing of their 2021 accounts and that the FAC and PRA have genuine regulatory concerns over granting the licence.

Also regulators in the US, Canada and Australia are delaying their banking licence responses, as they are waiting on the UK outcome, which is possibly forcing Revolut to publicly make these statements to try and move things on (which might be working, based on the headline).

Leroy42 · 08-05-2023 5:39pm

But this is the position the UK currently finds itself. Like with trade deals, companies know the UK government is under pressure to prove the benefits of brexit and as such are open to pressure when it looks like it would hurt that.

Not dissimilar to the way the big US firms can pressure Ireland but then Ireland is a much smaller fish and that is somewhat of the price you pay. The UK may have to get used to that sort of treatment.

Capt'n Midnight · 08-05-2023 6:31pm

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-65484552

In another example of "TakingBackControl" the Troy government is overturning the 1998 ban on animal testing so it can align with EU rules.

Quin_Dub · 09-05-2023 9:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120571311#Comment_120571311

Exactly - The UK hold virtually no cards in any negotiations , whether that's trade deals with other Countries or even trying to deal with Corporations and everyone knows it.

The UK will ALWAYS be weaker partner in any deals they do for the foreseeable future , the absolute best they can hope for is something approaching break-even.

Hermy · 10-05-2023 6:24pm

It's being reported by RTE that the promised bonfire of EU laws will now not go ahead as planned.

Instead only 600 will be revoked rather than the 4000 laws promised.

According to Business Secretary Kemi Badenoch this is due to a risk of legal uncertainty.

No surprise there I'm sure.

Peregrinus · 11-05-2023 3:37am

No surprise — Sunak continues to position himself as the Tory leader who is Not Actually Insane, this being probably the least damaging brand he can hope to build before the general election.

But considerable dismay among the shrinking band of Brexit True Believers™. A delegation of them has reportedly gone to see the Chief Whip, and there's talk of letters to Sir Graham Brady. But it's all posturing. They don't have the numbers. They're just positioning themselves to say, when the Tories are trounced at the general election, that it is because the electorate are disgusted at the betrayal of Brexit.

Hotblack Desiato · 11-05-2023 12:11pm

Meanwhile Starmer is positioning his party as Tories wearing red ties.

ancapailldorcha · 11-05-2023 12:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120582633#Comment_120582633

Based on what?

ancapailldorcha · 11-05-2023 1:02pm

It looks like Kemi Badenoch has put her foot in it:

https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1656617880698462208

She announced her plans in the Telegraph prior to doing it in the House much to the chagrin of the Speaker who promptly upbraided her. She also managed to antagonise both sides (I hate that phrase) of the house.

serfboard · 11-05-2023 1:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120582638#Comment_120582638

I think that this will give a flavour of the current discontentment.

If you are actively trying to encourage your own voters to not bother voting, you do it with policies like this.

ancapailldorcha · 11-05-2023 1:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120582959#Comment_120582959

I don't see the issue. Just Stop Oil aren't popular. The UK isn't a country of climate change deniers and all of the major parties here are in favour of action on climate change.

I can't watch the video yet so I'm going off the quote in that tweet.

serfboard · 11-05-2023 4:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120582975#Comment_120582975

You are obviously not aware of the first proper use of the Public Order Act, which was during the coronation. It was used to arrest people protesting. Ian Dunt has a piece on it here.

the new Public Order Act, ... allows [the police] to arrest anyone they suspect of possessing materials which can be used to “lock-on”, for instance by chaining themselves to a road. In this case, the police said the straps used to bind placards satisfied the threshold.

This article (also in the i) shows another use of the powers.

Parody PM as usual, has his amusing take on it here.

The idea that Labour won't commit to repealing the Act is appalling to some of their voters, and makes them wonder, as the tweet I linked earlier says: "what the point of Labour is".

ancapailldorcha · 11-05-2023 4:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120583858#Comment_120583858

To be clear, I'm not condoning either the Act itself or the arrests of Republic activists. I read Dunt's piece and it's very insightful on the subject.

The problem goes a bit deeper than party politics though. In a two-party system, this is a heck of a thing to give up. It's the same with our anti-democratic voting system. Again, this is a vile piece of legislation that needs torching. Dunt adds that the coalition did this to a lot of New Labour's policies so there is precedent.

At the end of the day, we have a choice between the Conservatives and Labour. That's it. I think the comment about red Tories is a bit silly and unhelpful. It just encourages fatalism and that's how the Tories win at the end of the day.

Podge_irl · 11-05-2023 5:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120583858#Comment_120583858

I suspect promising to repeal it might be appalling to quite a lot of their prospective voters also.

It was a fairly popular piece of legislation and while I agree that it is an abomination, not being in power doesn't solve much about it either. The question has no good answer.

serfboard · 11-05-2023 7:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120584076#Comment_120584076

To repeal or not to repeal, that is the question. Whether you lose more prospective voters by promising to repeal, or lose more actual voters by not promising to do so is a political calculation which Starmer has made, and come out on the not repeal side.

Gives me the impression of a position which was focus-group tested - a great way to make decisions if you have no real principles.

Was it "a fairly popular piece of legislation"? How do you know that?

I get that people were pissed off at those idiots in Just Stop Oil with their ludicrous carry-on. However, you don't respond to that by giving the police sweeping powers of arrest under the flimsiest of pretexts.

Podge_irl · 11-05-2023 8:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120584533#Comment_120584533

Was it "a fairly popular piece of legislation"? How do you know that?

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/11/09/britons-broadly-supportive-public-order-bills-meas

However, you don't respond to that by giving the police sweeping powers of arrest under the flimsiest of pretexts.

Sure, I certainly wouldn't and I agree with you that its a terrible idea. Its a sweeping statement, but Britain has always been quite pro heavy handed police measures I think. Which is weirdly ironic given their complete refusal to countenance ID cards.

Anyway, ultimately most laws don't need to be "repealed". Just overwritten with other ones.

Hotblack Desiato · 11-05-2023 8:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120582638#Comment_120582638

Couldn't find the thread, found it now.

https://twitter.com/MammothWhale/status/1655578919079145476?s=20

To sum up:

will keep anti-protest laws
will not tax the wealthy
will not nationalise services
will keep tuition fees
will tag migrants
will allow 'conversion therapy'
will suck up to anti-LGBTQ churches
will not reintroduce freedom of movement
will attack unions
will increase public sector wages by less than inflation (NB after years of freezes)
will not support strikers
will allow continued NHS privatisation by stealth
will support Thatcherite justice policies
will continue austerity
will support nationalism (if you're English)
will oppose the will of the Scottish parliament
will coalesce with Tories on councils
will suck up to the Orange Order
will be backed by the leader of the Scottish Tories (and, really, why wouldn't he?)
will not tackle racism and sexism in the party
will endorse a UKIP-style immigration policy
will support 'stop the boats'
will not reform electoral system
will continue or expand rent to buy
will not freeze rents
will endorse Tory benefit cuts
will support a minimum wage below the living wage

Taking all of these things together, does this sound like a party of the left, or even centre, in any meaningful sense of those words?

As a commenter said, Starmer is endorsing the Tories' continued movement of the Overton window to the right.

Christy42 · 11-05-2023 8:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120584862#Comment_120584862

Main reason they are the better option is that they are not actively trying to think up ideas to make things worse but don't seem to want to help.

Podge_irl · 11-05-2023 9:07pm

Taking all of these things together, does this sound like a party of the left, or even centre, in any meaningful sense of those words?

Various definitions/factions of the left have traditionally been against freedom of movement and would happily endorse UKIP-style immigration policy and stopping the boats. Nor have they been traditionally opposed to the FPTP voting system as they want to use it to take power.

Other topics there I think are pretty poor framing (as one example, a test in court of the boundaries of what devolution means and contesting when you think it has gone too far is incredibly important and nothing to do with left v right)

Others are incredibly in line with overwhelming majority of UK opinion. There are legitimate points of complaint/argument also but then the UK is not a particularly left-leaning country and also I would never expect to agree with every policy point of a leader. I would support more aggressive focusing on e.g. re-nationalising the railways as that is an experiment that has not worked, though British Rail were not without their massive faults.

Labour would and have in the past increased funding for the NHS and other public services. Better at investing in education (and no, I don't think removing uni fees is investing in education. 3rd level fees should be reformed but should absolutely not be abolished as its just a boon to the middle classes, which isn't very left either). The minimum wage wouldn't exist without them, and supporting increasing it is a positive. There is no point in "winning the argument" Corbyn style if you don't actually get in power to do anything. Contributing to Brexit is one of his legacies, and not one I think he'd be bothered by cause he more or less wanted it.

You need to work with the politics and realities you have, not the ones you want.

breezy1985 · 11-05-2023 9:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120584533#Comment_120584533

He will lose voters in the massive majority cities but not lose them in the former red wall and swing areas is my guess.

That has been Starmer's tactics all the way through.

ancapailldorcha · 11-05-2023 10:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120584862#Comment_120584862

That's not a great list, I'll admit but some of the entries are disputable. The Orange Order thing is hogwash simply because a Scottish councillor is a former leader. I'd hardly calling that sucking up.

Honestly, a lot of those tweets are just snide comments and links to dubious sources.

Here's one that simply false:

https://twitter.com/MammothWhale/status/1655601657038745600

Asked how many people he would be prepared to let into the country under a managed migration plan, he said: "We don't want open borders. Freedom of movement has gone and it's not coming back.

"So that means fair rules, firm rules, a points-based system.

"What I would like to see is the numbers go down in some areas. I think we're recruiting too many people from overseas into, for example, the health service.

"But on the other hand, if we need high-skilled people in innovation in tech to set up factories etc, then I would encourage that."

Immigration was a massive part of the Brexit debate and Brexit was what people voted for. It is what it is.

Frankly, that Twitter thread is just the sort of toxicity the Corbynistas promoted for years. Had they instead focused on what people actually wanted instead of their Islington safe spaces and allowing antisemitism to flourish, things might be different. Starmer is doing things differently because that's what people want.

ancapailldorcha · 12-05-2023 8:55am

It's a fairly standard debate between Alastair Campbell and Alex Philips of Reform but at the end, he finally calls out the BBC for allowing these cranks to spout their lies and fantasies which is the only reason I'm sharing this here:

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1656789295829512194

She spouts the usual guff about a lack of courage and that it's of course not real Brexit.

breezy1985 · 12-05-2023 9:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120585683#Comment_120585683

Here we go again rabbiting the Daily Mail with the anti-Semitism stuff.

Even worse rabbiting the Daily Mail with "safe spaces" jabs. Getting involved in the culture wars now are we ?

If Labour have to go with that list above because "it's what the people want" then the UK is fuked. I'm still hoping this is all a front from Starmer but the comments get more and more bleak.

Hotblack Desiato · 12-05-2023 11:47am

Starmer is doing things differently because that's what people want.

Different from Labour in the past yes, but are they really that different from the Tories now though is the question.

And yes the guy who posted that thread seems a bit of a nutter and I think a lot of his comments are ridiculously snide, but there are still a lot of bad/worrying things there that Starmer is clearly endorsing

breezy1985 · 12-05-2023 11:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120586864#Comment_120586864

They are very different to the Tories now. It could be argued they are not far off Cameron's Tories but this current crowd are the worst government the country has ever seen. An absolute bunch of nutters with no peers.

ancapailldorcha · 12-05-2023 11:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120586864#Comment_120586864

Yes, I would say so. I can't see Starmer banning protests to be honest. His party would probably split over it given that the left protest more than the right as far as I can tell.

I've no idea who that man is but that sort of tone is a red flag. It shows that he cares more about virtue signalling than refugees, immigrants, trans people, etc. They're just pawns for him to make snide comments with.

Podge_irl · 12-05-2023 12:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120586864#Comment_120586864

are they really that different from the Tories now though is the question.

Yes?

They may not be as different as some people want. I think you are also over-egging what Starmer is "endorsing", I think a lot of it is just either not taking a position or not committing to definitive action. I think its a bit weak morally or whatever, but I can at least somewhat understand the view politically.

breezy1985 · 12-05-2023 12:37pm

Can't see Starmer proroguing parliament or banning major publications from no.10 press briefings.

Can't see him taking teachers to court or crying about "woke" every week.

Can't see the Bank of England having to make last minute interventions to save the UK from financial collapse after only a few weeks in the job.

Brexit discussion thread XIV (Please read OP before posting)

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