Leinster v Munster Build-up Tread

ersatz · 11-05-2023 5:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120584410#Comment_120584410

That's fair enough as it's on the URC to manage optics and appoint appropriate officials, etc. Managing the appearance of fairness should be basic stuff for any league if they want to grow and pointing that out is not going after refs.

snotboogie · 12-05-2023 9:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120583954#Comment_120583954

To be fair to Archer, the three games were all away, two of those in South Africa. 2 wins and a draw against Stormers, Sharks and Glasgow away is an outstanding return. He is also probably influenced by the fact that he had one of the best runs of his own career over those 3 games, going back to back 80 minutes in South Africa and fronting up in the scum on the back of Munster being absolutely minced there by the Sharks only a few weeks previously.

Leinster won't be the only team fielding a weekend side, Munster will likely be missing 7 of their 1st choice 15 (Barron, Snyman, O'Mahony, Murray, Feikitoa, Conway, Nash) and there could be up to 4 academy players in the 23 (Edogbo, Coughlan, Campbell and Philips).

12-05-2023 9:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120583954#Comment_120583954

A Munster - Connacht final would be good for Irish rugby, although there is an argument that a Leinster double would be best from an Ireland perspective going into the RWC.

12-05-2023 10:57am

Munster: Mike Haley; Keith Earls, Antoine Frisch, Jack Crowley, Shane Daly; Ben Healy, Craig Casey; Jeremy Loughman, Diarmuid Barron, Stephen Archer; Jean Kleyn, Tadhg Beirne; Peter O’Mahony (C), John Hodnett, Gavin Coombes.

Replacements: Niall Scannell, Josh Wycherley, Roman Salanoa, Fineen Wycherley, Jack O’Donoghue, Neil Cronin, Rory Scannell, Alex Kendellen.

Earls has made a miraculous recovery. Poor Joey still can't make a 23. Zebo nowhere to be seen, what a waste of a signing.

hold my beer · 12-05-2023 10:59am

That's a much better team than I thought Munster could field. Looking forward to this now.

Clegg · 12-05-2023 11:01am

Some team.

Delighted that Henshaw and Kelleher are back.

https://twitter.com/leinsterrugby/status/1656977521810997248?t=YafUmteUP5qYzXqo6dij9A&s=09

12-05-2023 11:01am

https://twitter.com/leinsterrugby/status/1656977521810997248/photo/1

And Leinster.

bingobango12 · 12-05-2023 11:06am

Almost completely second string for Leinster. Noticed no Carberry again and Scannell on the bench. He’s been poor for a while but the poor blokes confidence must be on the floor.

12-05-2023 11:08am

No Lowe, Ryan, Moloney, Ringrose over the past two weeks. Anyone else?

Of likely/certain starters for next week that we know are fit: Keenan, Ringrose, Ross, JGP, Porter, Furlong, Doris, Moloney rested. Which is... fewer than expected. Lowe and Ryan we don't appear to be sure of their fitness.

durthacht · 12-05-2023 11:08am

Great week for Nick McCarthy to get called up to the US Eagles and the URC semi final squad. His Leinster career is probably winding down but this must be a lovely week for him.

Also, delighted for Deegan and Connors as they were excellent in South Africa and it's nice their season didn't finish with the big defeat.

Brief_Lives · 12-05-2023 11:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120586945#Comment_120586945

that almost completely second string for leinster is still a load of bollox. how many internationals/ex internationals are in the 23?

you'd have to throw a stone fairly fcuking far not to hit one with the squad Leinster have.

Podge_irl · 12-05-2023 11:11am

Not happy with that squad at all really. Sub halfbacks the standout problem, but would like a much stronger bench in general.

bingobango12 · 12-05-2023 11:18am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120586961#Comment_120586961

What’s that got to do with anything? Porter Sheehan Furlong Molony Ryan Doris VDF Gibson Park Byrne Lowe Ringrose Larmour Keenan all not playing. So yes it is second string.

Conan and Henshaw (out of position) only two that will likely start the final next week. Because Leinster have a better squad doesn’t mean this second string team is “a load of bollix” as you put it.

AbusesToilets · 12-05-2023 11:20am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120586910#Comment_120586910

Shocking that there isn't a better TH in Munster than Archer. Damning indictment of their academy.

snotboogie · 12-05-2023 11:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120586910#Comment_120586910

6-2 split with Earls starting just back from injury is a huge risk. I understand O'Mahony may have been touch and go too but you have a lot of flexibility between Beirne and Wycherly to cover 6. It also leaves Munster with zero impact from the bench in the backline.

12-05-2023 11:23am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587010#Comment_120587010

TBF, he's been good enough over the latter part of this season. Good enough that he hasn't been a problem anyway I'd say.

Clegg · 12-05-2023 11:28am

Both 15's are pretty even I think. Leinster's bench is stronger however. That and home advantage should hopefully see it through.

Can't overlook the cup tie factor though. Munster lads striving for a final while the Leinster players could be holding back for next week. Hope it doesn't happen, but easily could.

Must love hardship · 12-05-2023 11:28am

Jaysus that is fairly harsh for carberry. Both healy and crowley start and not even on the bench with rory scannall in the 22 shirt.

How long is left on carberrys contract? (Edit I see he is out of Contract summer 24.)

Great to see Earls get a run but is he fit ? And not a lot of cover for him.

Have to carry extra back row cover as pom is hardly fit either

Podge_irl · 12-05-2023 11:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587039#Comment_120587039

Is it? Leinster's bench looks ropey as hell to me.

12-05-2023 11:34am

Two interesting selections - on Munster first; not remotely surprised to see O'Mahony, but am surprised to see Earls. Good for him and glad he doesn't have to bow out with an injury in SA. Win or lose tomorrow and over the next few weeks, he deserves a proper send off.

Feel like Leinster will try to threaten and stretch that midfield defence between Healy and Crowley. It's a fairly disastrous state of affairs for Joey that he isn't even in the 23 here, and makes it almost impossible to envision him clawing his way into a RWC squad, absent a lot of injuries elsewhere. 6-2 split on the bench again. Any injuries to outside backs will require a bit of rejigging.

On the Leinster side - brilliant to see Henshaw, Kelleher and Healy all healthy, and able to play. Big opportunity for the forgotten man in our backrow Will Connors to show what he can do. Feel like if he can use his elite tackling to shut Coombes down as a carrier, it could go a long way to deciding this one. Also great to see Tommy O'Brien getting a big chance here.

Agreed with the @Podge_irl that our bench looks weakish, especially at half back. Despite that, it's still a strong enough selection and in the Aviva we should be good enough to win this.

TRC10 · 12-05-2023 11:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587040#Comment_120587040

Jaysus that is fairly harsh for carberry.

Not really. He's been 3rd choice for a couple of months now. Not sure why that would suddenly change. Crowley and Healy still very much the two matchday 10s. Crowley starting the match at 12 doesn't change that.

Quin_Dub · 12-05-2023 11:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120586910#Comment_120586910

Glad for Earls on a personal level that he gets another game in a Munster shirt , but does his inclusion make the 6-2 split on the bench risky?

If Munster lose a back three player earlyish in game they could be in bother.

Clegg · 12-05-2023 11:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587045#Comment_120587045

It is. McKee, McCarthy and VDF are three very impactful players to spring from the bench.

I see nobody on the Munster bench that can make the same physical impact, bar maybe Salanoa.

Former Former Former · 12-05-2023 11:40am

Joey Carbery got married during the week. He was never going to play this week.

Podge_irl · 12-05-2023 11:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587080#Comment_120587080

That's not the reason though.

Must love hardship · 12-05-2023 11:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587056#Comment_120587056

I know he is behind healy and crowley since they got knocked out of Europe but now it looks like he is behind scannell too.

I know they don't play the exact same positions. Where scannell is a 12 who can sub 10. But carberry can play 10 and 15. And you still have cover in the centre from daly and Earls..

If daly Earls or haley go down you going to have a number of positional switches to accommodate bringing in scannell..

It's always the risk with the 6 2 split I suppose.

Quin_Dub · 12-05-2023 11:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587080#Comment_120587080

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587091#Comment_120587091

Sadly a likely more accurate statement is "Joey was never going to be playing this game , so he got married during the week"

sydthebeat · 12-05-2023 11:50am

Not too worried about the leinster half back situation. Harry will do 80, Luke 70. Frawley will come on for Robbie on 60.

The sharks are way more physical than Munster and Harry came through grand, even moving to 12 for the last quarter.

Dubinusa · 12-05-2023 11:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587107#Comment_120587107

I hope he refocused and comes back into the reckoning. I'm not a fan of him at 10 but, he's a good player. Full back would probably be his best option. He's due to get back into the squad next season. Healy off to Scotland opens the door for him.

Podge_irl · 12-05-2023 11:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587107#Comment_120587107

Also unlikely.

Back when he was planning this he still would have been the starting 10 - it really wasn't that long ago.

In reality, he had a civil ceremony because he needs to before having the actual wedding in France apparently. He did it on a down day and it wasn't a big affair and thought he could still play. But he just hasn't been selected.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 12-05-2023 12:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587102#Comment_120587102

You wouldn't go for 3 10s in a 23. Unless the 10 was better cover for other positions.

Scannell is probably a more solid defender. If someone gets injured he can cover.

Foe example I wouldn't want frisch to go off and have 10/12/13 as Healy, Crowley, Carbery.

Former Former Former · 12-05-2023 12:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587107#Comment_120587107

This isn't Vegas. You can't say "hey honey, I've a great idea, let's get married today!". You have to give three months notice.

It's odd that he chose to do it in the business end of the season but here we are.

Quin_Dub · 12-05-2023 12:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587166#Comment_120587166

The key risk though is a back 3 player going down though.

If Earls breaks down, you are probably looking at Haley to the wing , Crowley dropping back to FB and Scannell coming in to 12.

Just lots of seemingly unnecessary disruption , unless of course they are more concerned with POM not lasting the game than Earls.

Clegg · 12-05-2023 12:04pm

Leinster's big advantage is in the centres I think. If Henshaw is back to anywhere near his best, he and Ngatai can get a lot of joy. The latter is especially good at sitting down defenders and drawing them in before passing. Could put Henshaw into a lot of space.

I'm a bit concerned that they haven't played together all that much, but neither had Ngatai and Frawley and thet went well enough.

Quin_Dub · 12-05-2023 12:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587178#Comment_120587178

Ngatai and Henshaw are both more than experienced enough to play together and I'm sure they've done plenty of sets on the training field as well.

Just hope that Henshaw can get through the game unscathed.

12-05-2023 12:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587019#Comment_120587019

Yeah, but Beirne likely isn't 100% either. Feels like they probably scrambled him back for Glasgow given the significance of it, but the plan wouldn't have been for him to go 80 last week absent the injuries to O'Mahony and Snyman.

They've gone 6-2 a good few times this season.

I'm surprised (pleasantly) that neither Ahern or Edogbo features for them; I rate them both (especially Ahern) higher than Fineen Wycherley. Probably not quite fit enough in either case.

snotboogie · 12-05-2023 12:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587211#Comment_120587211

Ya its a tough decision either way. If Munster lose Frisch, Daly or Earls they have no cover. In any of those cases you are moving Mike Haley to the wing, who I believe has never played there for Munster. It may actually just be that Campbell and Zebo aren't fit, they don't trust Philips (who still has no contract for next season) or McCarthy (who only joined the academy halfway through the season) and with Nash, Coombs and Conway all ruled out they literally have nobody left to cover the wings.

stephen_n · 12-05-2023 12:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587178#Comment_120587178

Henshaw hasn’t been anywhere near his best in his last few outings.

Games are won upfront and with a 6:2 split, that’s where Munster are going to try and win.

typhoony · 12-05-2023 12:26pm

Not surprised at all that Leinster have rested nearly all their first teamers, should be a competitive game, can see a couple yellow cards at least

Akrasia · 12-05-2023 12:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587176#Comment_120587176

Hodnett finished at 12 against Glasgow. There are risks with the 6-2 split, but we certainly needed the extra forward last week.

Anything can happen, I expect there to be at least 2 injuries to our players tomorrow given the nature of these contests

Podge_irl · 12-05-2023 12:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587173#Comment_120587173

its not his "proper" wedding, he just had to get the civil ceremony done. Its not that weird.

12-05-2023 12:34pm

Looking at the two teams, Kelleher the stand out of the two front rows, beyond that not loads between them. I rate Loughman, Milne is developing well but still raw enough. Ala'alatoa a far better tighthead than Archer, but the red v blue rivalry factor should get a lot out of Archer.

Advantage Munster in the second row, Kleyn is having a terrific season and Beirne is on the cusp of world class. Interesting though in that Jenkins and Kleyn would play a very similar brand of rugby and Beirne / Baird are similarly athletic second rows.

Backrow a tough call. POM Hodnett Coombes v Deegan Connors Conan.

I think people will call this one on provincial lines. No doubt POM a far more established international than Deegan, but the same could be said of Conan over Coombes. Connors looked to be Ireland's openside at one point but injury has derailed his career of late. Hodnett has never been in the frame for Ireland but has had a stand out season that's brought him close to the top table.

Can't really call it but going to give slight advantage to Leinster. I think Connors is a better player than Hodnett and the margin between the two is greater than that between POM / Deegan. I think Conan is a more dynamic player than Coombes as much as Coombes gets through an immense amount of work I think he's more a Rhys Ruddock style 8. Lineout is going to be fascinating but advantage Munster, can't see the scrums going either way.

Overall not a lot between the packs, front row Leinster, second row Munster, back row parity. Leinster the better coached unit however and that gives them advantage.

Halves another interesting one. Munster look to be in a 'getting their best players on the pitch' situation with Crowley moving to 12. I'd take McGrath / Byrne over Casey / Healy personally. Crowley is hardy enough for the 12 channel but will the line hold against two hard carrying 12s? Advantage Leinster at half and mid field to be honest, and that's a significant advantage.

No much between the back three's. I'm a big Haley fan and I don't think it's JOB's best position. Earls v Kearney makes me want to post the jumanji 'what year is it' meme. Daly v TOB is a nice line up as both are up and comers with International aspirations. Parity in the back three from what I can see.

Leinster's forwards replacements are far stronger. If the game hasn't been won at that point, I see the forwards bench sealing the deal for the home side.

TLDR:

Front row: Advantage Leinster

Second row: Advantage Munster

Back row: parity / slight Leinster advantage

9/10: Advantage Leinster

12/13: Advantage Leinster

Back 3: Parity

Bench: Advantage Leinster

Conclusion: Ladyboy's to progress.

Akrasia · 12-05-2023 12:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587211#Comment_120587211

What makes you think Beirne isn't fit, he played the full 80 last week. The squad update even specifically said Beirne came through the game without injury

pickarooney · 12-05-2023 12:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587148#Comment_120587148

Yeah, he couldn't get legally married in France if he's not a resident there. The 'actual wedding' would be just a party with no legal status.

aloooof · 12-05-2023 12:51pm

Pretty happy with those team, all things considered.

Think Fineen Wycherley is a little unlucky not to be starting, given some of his performances of late.

Niall Scannell only recently back from injury but looks like Barron’s out starting hooker now?

Feel we’ll miss Murray or Patterson here, even one of those fit would’ve been helpful.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 12-05-2023 12:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587288#Comment_120587288

Given that he needed to give 3 months notice maybe he was expecting the season to be over by now.

What if Munster were away to South Africa for the semi (3 months notice is necessary) he would have missed one of the other.

12-05-2023 12:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587304#Comment_120587304

Yeah, I don't mean he's injured, I just mean he came back pretty quickly from a very long layoff. In an ideal world they'd have preferred to have eased him in more slowly than they've had to. He played 80 last week out of necessity.

Brief_Lives · 12-05-2023 1:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587396#Comment_120587396

he had it on a wednesday. They always have wednesdays free. it's not a big deal.

12-05-2023 1:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120587454#Comment_120587454

Who officiated? We're they from Munster?

Clegg · 12-05-2023 1:12pm

Harry Byrne has been playing well since returning from injury and getting consistent time on the pitch. Tomorrow he's starting the biggest game of his career. It's a chance for him to show he should be ahead of Crowley and that Farrell backed the right man over Healy.

I hope he plays well, brings the ball to the line and puts his outside backs into space.

Leinster v Munster Build-up Tread

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