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Fighter jets for the Air Corps?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    I asked you why do we need fighter jets to which you qouted multiple reasons ranging from us being bombed by mistake in WW2 to Russian bombers flying 80 km off the coast in 2020. And other once off non issue incidents.

    Surely you can see that your reasoning is Abit hollow.. I mean when you have to bring up 1942 to back your point....

    This is my 3rd time acknowledging your "sources" but unfortunately it doesn't make it any less ridiculous.

    So what other policing issues do we have that urgently requires 15 - 30 fighter jets ?

    Outside of a dismissive nonsense reply you havent much to say because you know the "issues" your referring to are nonsense.

    We have survived decades without jets and facing the same issues but now all of a sudden we are in immienent danger... Spare me...


    I've done nothing but pin you to point and you have been found wanting in terms of answers for basic questions regarding what you are advocating for.



  • Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    And I absolutely disagree with once off "sources" like the Irish times articles citing nameless "experts" advising on our defence only a sheep would blindly agree unfortunately the majority of the population are drones that seem to think war is call of duty and jets are cool...

    But of course our jets are for "policing" only according to you , with no idea what we LL do if we actually have to use em... On who ever is violating our airspace.

    So in short I think your fix of jets won't make us any safer nor will they resolve issues like other nations disregarding our airspace boundaries.

    You assume when we get jets everything will be rosy. There will be no difference between right now and if we do get them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,143 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Actually that was in reply to you saying we've never been attacked and can't be due to our geographical location. All obviously wrong. I never said we needed 30 fighters or linked to a source that did. So also wrong. Why are referencing 2020 if nothing has happened since 1942. Again wrong.

    All you've posted a litany of factual errors.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,143 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    I dunno what your reading, but anything I've read links to official source of the analysis, or article. Which you'd know if you'd actually read and/or understood it. Nothing once off about the same thing being said for years from a wide variety sources.

    ... and predictably you're back to war again...



  • Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    Still can't mention all these clear defined threats you have a handful of nonsense examples because at the back of it all you know well there is no credible threat that warrants these jets.

    Basacially your argument is a complete strawmans with 0 depth when questioned.

    You had to bring 1942 into it because no other time in our history have we been attacked from the air. And even that example is completely irrelevant to us today and what I said stands absolutely correct we are geographically safe as can be from attack.

    Unless of course you are saying that the UK will allow Ireland to be attacked ?

    You relise that fighter jets are an instrument of war and completely combat orientated there is 0 other applications for fighter jets and yet you are astonished that I reference war when discussing our need for them.

    Once again I'm exposing your hollow strawman deflection tactics.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    So since your fully aboard the jets bandwagon..

    Do you believe that if we don't get them we will be attacked or suffer severe consequences without them?

    Do you believe there are credible threats to Ireland?

    These are simple questions surely even you can answer them without deflection.

    Can you explain the lack of major incidents without them for decades ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,143 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997



    The reasons for them are clearly outlined in the various report and studies. I can't read them for you.

    England DID allow Ireland to be attacked. It's a fact of history.

    Ireland been landed from the sea, countless times, invaded. How is that geographically safe. Lol.

    You can use a fighter jet to control air space, in peacetime. It can be used to search, reconnaissance, training. They are not solely used in war.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,143 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    More shortages in the US.

    "In response to a question from committee member Rep. Jennifer Kiggans (R-VA), asking how long it takes to train Air Force fighter, bomber and mobility pilots, Allvin testified that training for mobility pilots should take 18 months while fighter and bomber pilot training could take more than two years.

    But he explained that it’s actually taking the Air Force up to four years to train new pilots because the service doesn’t have enough training aircraft available."





  • Registered Users Posts: 3,950 ✭✭✭sparky42


    So the US and UK are both having major problems with their pilot training systems?



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,143 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Seems so. I guess if you ignore resourcing issues with people and equipment, for a long time. It starts to gain momentum that's hard to reverse. Especially if there's crisis.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    How does a jet control air space?..... As I said it's a combat orientated bit of equipment war is absolutely relevant when discussing them as it was what they are primarily for.

    So many reasons you can't even give a few examples....

    Oh Jesus Ireland has been invaded from sea... We talking the Vikings now... I'll spell it out for you we are geographically safe where it's relevant and that's today.

    Do you disagree with that if so why?

    Absolute strawman reasoning WW2 and the Vikings lol

    Germany did not mean to bomb Ireland and issued an apology but even so you know fine we'll that isn't even comparable to today and is completely irrelevant outside of strawman reasoning.


    We need jets and references a WW2 bombing in the 1940s...



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,104 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Never heard of the phrase 'combat air patrol'?

    Jets control airspace by responding to ground, sea and airborne tracking systems and denying access to that airspace to any other aircraft, be it a warplane, a spy plane, a drone or a civilian aircraft out of communication or known to be in unfriendly hands.

    It is the most routine tasking that any interceptor / air superiority fighter will ever do. In all likelihood, it'll be 99% of its service life.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,143 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    So sorry they did it multiple times lol.

    Unless our Geography has changed, how it didn't save us in the past, it seems entirely relevant.

    "Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

    "We don't need those things......what do they do again?" lol.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,451 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Both forces waited too long to replace their jet trainers. The RAF Hawk should have been replaced a decade ago with another LIFT, but in the meantime the Tucano was also withdrawn from service, so now all the people waiting on conversion courses are also struggling just to maintain normal flying hours due to the lack of aircraft. In the USA the T38, which was used by everyone in the fast jet game to keep their flying hours current, suddenly stopped becoming available,as one by one airframes started timing out. Combine that with a few high profile fatal accidents and suddenly everyone is trying to stay current on a handful of airframes. Air National Guard units in particular struggled, as it was not always possible or practical to take an F16 or F-A/18 up just to build flying hours on cost grounds.

    Of course neither air force is in the habit of buying something off the shelf built elsewhere.



  • Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    Right so just to summarize you're saying we need jets because we as a country now a days are not safe from attack, when questioned on this you have referenced a single accidently bombing in the 1940s that was done by mistake and apologized for your other reference to show we can still be attacked and aren't safe is the viking raids of 795.

    Can you see why no one with half a brain would take you lot seriously and your requests lol

    Conjuring out strawmans like this and convincing yourself that Ireland is still in danger of attack shows an ungodly amount of ignorance and lack basic military knowledge and the political landscape.

    I know exactly what jets are for you re the one that struggles to grasp the concept that they are completely combat orientated and there sole reason for existance is to kill lmao the question was asked to try and show you how stupid what you were saying was. Similar to the above laying out of your "examples" maybe when you see it in black and white the penny might drop.

    I do get a good laugh out of the strawman arguments though.


    "Jets are instruments of peace! And for peacefully stopping viking invasions and WW2 era bombings" 😂😂



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,143 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Nice rant that's unsurprisingly all wrong as usual.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,143 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Both having problems of pilot retention aswell.



  • Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    Predicably no answers 🤣 not surprised though would be tough to Google answers for that.

    Well I'm happy with that I have completely debunked the fallcy of Ireland being "under threat" conjured up by the likes of yourself and other "experts"...

    But rest assured bud the Vikings are gone and WW2 are over we won't be bombed anytime soon if we do t have aircraft 🤣🤣



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,143 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    The Vikings aren't gone. They are in the Irish DNA. Wrong again



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,104 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Your trolling is becoming tiresome.

    So too is your ignorance of the deteriorating security situation in Europe and the north Atlantic, very definitely not to exclude Ireland.

    Fact: three days ago, the UK Defence secretary announced the Government there had approved the sending of long range air-launched Storm Shadow cruise missiles to the Ukrainian forces. A missile almost impervious to air defence systems, it could cause devastation of Russian formations and indeed to strategic targets in the near border area of Russia proper. The Russian authorities are enraged by this escalation.

    Fact: Russian government survey vessels, deployed with Russian naval surface vessels and submarines have been identified loitering over a multitude of undersea pipelines and cables in the North Sea, Baltic Sea, Arctic Ocean,Celtic Sea, English Channel and North Atlantic proper, including the territorial waters and EEZs of a dozen or more EU and/or NATO states. Including Ireland.

    Considering the Russians invented the false flag operation over a hundred years ago (Maskirovka: The Disguise) and that they already blew up the Nord Stream 1 natural gas pipeline, it would be beyond naive to think that energy and communications infrastructure linking Ireland to NATO states would not be under threat, because of the involvement of those NATO states in supplying offensive weapons to Ukraine.

    The Russians don't care that Ireland is militarily non-aligned, we have been sanctioning Russia, seizing their assets in the IFSC, deporting Russians who are a threat and engaging in serious diplomatic fall outs with their embassy, humiliating their Ambassador and allowing permanent protests at their facilities.

    And so, your deliberate obtuseness around the hybrid threat environment in which Ireland exists and against which it must defend, is ignorant, naive, childish and stupid. And nobody here thinks you have a scrap of credibility in anything you say.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Going on the article below have the air corps made a submission on a plan for air policing to the government or is the journal just guessing and going on hearsay




  • Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    Atleast flinty talks some sense you just regurgitate sky news in a weak attempt to come across as someone who knows what they are talking about.

    The only reason you know where Russian military assets are is because proper militaries are doing there job no one is relying on Ireland to do or know anything about the Russians, Ireland and especially it's military is an absolute non factor.

    To quote the Taosieach "it's not like Europe is looking to Ireland for it's security". This is absolutely correct.

    In short it won't be the IDF that will be dealing with the Russians it will be the UK and the US over this side that will be stopping any attempts on infrastructure.

    It's not trolling it's a fact just because it hurts your feelings doesn't make it any less true.

    Yourself always make me laugh big rock breaker words in a attempt to sound clever relax you re writing a comment on boards not a thesis 🤣🤣 ooh noo the hybrid threat 🤣 spare me... Tbh I'm not too worried about making a good impression on the crowd here one lad is still worried about Nazi's and vikings and the other thinks we re in a call of duty moment.. my credibility with the over dramatics on here will just have to take the hit for debunking the fear mongering nonsense spun by some on here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    Guaranteed fact you never even heard of a storm shadow missile till it was all over sky news too 🤣🤣



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,950 ✭✭✭sparky42


    I would guess a little of both having read it. Interesting to see yet again DPER getting flagged as the major obstacle for progressing anything.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    This part seams interesting particuarly the costs

    Phipps said 2021 costings he has seen for such a fleet of aircraft, a squadron of between eight to ten fighter jets with the primary radar system, would be in the region of US$360 million, (€329.5m) with an annual running cost of US$20m (€18m).



  • Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    Credit to the RAF they have done a fantastic job in keeping the air space safe, and without any thanks, if its security we are worried about in the air we d do far worse than working with our closest neighbors. Who have arguably the best airforce in the world.

    It's no surprise we are decades without a major incidents.

    The up roar over it is hilarious just shows security isn't the main concern.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,143 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Quite damming. It's not likely DPER acting independently either.

    ".....Regardless of those machinations and the gnashing of teeth over the supposed deal with the British, all that will become redundant fallacy if Ireland’s military security apparatus is found wanting when a critical incident arises..."

    The very minimum is the Radar and ancillaries.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,950 ✭✭✭sparky42


    If that is accurate and current within the AC it’s some interesting figures, seems to be much lower than what we’ve seen before, though off the top of my head that operational coatings seem to be closer to the M346 suggestion to the Commission than operating Gripens?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,451 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    It depends on when the costings were put forward. It may be back after 9/11.

    Obviously though, based on this weeks troll, the entire article is fictional....



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  • Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    You must have a stack high of articles at this point.

    And yet..

    No fighter jets or progress towards them to be seen.

    Into the bargain Ireland remains as safe as ever without this equipment.

    The deal with the RAF is working flawlessly.

    0 major incidents.



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