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Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,578 ✭✭✭Field east


    There are two very big issues that are central to the whole war with The UKr -and are intimately interconnected- that the conversation did not touch on @and are as follows:-

    (1) there was no mention of the invasion of Georgia or what Russia is doing in the Transnistra part of Moldova or the widespread involvement of Moscovy - BY PROXY- in the economic, financial, security, etc, business of a good number of soverign states. This would include cyber attacks

    (2) he made a big - he put it central to his argument re the war- issue that the expansion of NATO has led to the war in UKr. Putins ‘top of the pile’ - by far- objective is the recreation of the USSR,. He has said that the GREATEST MISTAKE ever made by the powers that be was the breakup of the USSR and all his actions are towards that end. In a nutshell he is about creation a ‘STRONG US’ and a ‘WEAK THEM’

    That should be as clear as ‘the proverbial nose on your face’



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Hating Putin infested/run Russia is the sane stance. You might find this confusing, but most of us have zero empathy for Putin’s Russia. Anyone that does is VERY suspect.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,680 ✭✭✭eire4


    I am not attacking University of Chicago in general. I clearly acknowledged in my last post and do so again that it a highly regarded instruction. So stop suggestion I am attacking the University in general because I am not. I will however attack their Economics department and Milton Friedman for the horrific euphemistically named "trickle down" economics which he and his colleges from Chicago have foisted on so many countries and which have destroyed the economic lives of so many particularly in latin America. The Chicago boys as they became known and Milton Fredman and Arnold Harberger were intimately involved with the disgusting evil dictator Pinochet and destroyed the economic lives of millions in Chile while helping to enrich those at the top and thus support the authoritarian Chilean dictatorship. To use your word "villain" that is exactly who Friedman was and is. It does not mean he did not do some good work and good things in his career but it equally does not change who and what he was and did. A man who foisted an economic policy that destroyed lives and consorted with a murdering dictator like Pinochet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,688 ✭✭✭Economics101


    There was a discussion about Mearsheimer/Univ of Chicago, and you posted the above. Why bring Friedman into it in the first place? Nothing to do with Mearsheimer. You are entitles to your views on Friedman and I won't argue with them except to say: read the Nobel citation, its not a matter of "trickle down economics".

    Let's get back to Ukraine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭grumpyperson


    So no links to prove Mearsheimer has been discredited. Finish politician Alex Stubb says Mearsheimer is wrong on Ukraine

    https://www.eui.eu/news-hub?id=alex-stubb-on-why-mearsheimer-is-wrong-about-the-war-in-ukraine

    However, I can't find where he has been discredited.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,665 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    What exactly is it you think "discredited" means? Its not published in the paper somewhere that someone has been officially discredited.

    His comments are nonsensical and its difficult to take anything he says seriously given the gaping logical flaws in his arguments.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Remember when you claimed 400,000 dead Ukrainians and another similar number of contractors ,and putin has shown restraint in occupied territories,

    Your the last person to ask if someone has been discredited



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    “Mearsheimer” ?

    I don’t even remember what point you were trying to make. Did you post a link without comment?

    I rarely if ever click those. If the person posting isn’t interested enough to make a comment why would I read?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    So, if I’m reading it his correctly Ukraine can intercept Russian drone and even cruise missile attacks, but can hit Russia fairly regularly.

    That’s a damning indictment of Russia’s strategy to wage even a war on Ukrainian citizens, never mind an army.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,324 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    However this war ends up, Russia has revealed to the world the exact capabilities - or lack thereof - of its army, while giving all its geopolitical rivals and enemies lots of on-the-ground testing of their more modern armaments, alongside visibility of russian methods (or, again, the lack thereof). While I don't think anyone's gonna drives tanks over their borders anytime soon, Russia's "bigger army diplomacy" clout must surely have been dealt a blow, alongside the actual economic contraction caused by sanctions. If Kyiv still falls, it'll be a Pyrrhic Victory at best, and one that'll also include an inevitable insurgency to boot. You'd almost wonder would they start aching for an easy out that didn't look like retreat.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,418 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Worth pointing out that the core of Ukraine's air defence which is what is keeping Russian air force and missiles at bay is based on Soviet era Buk and S-300 air defences. They don't have an unlimited supply of missiles for these, which is why it is important for NATO countries to provide alternative systems. This is more complicated than just providing ammunition \ parts for existing systems.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,948 ✭✭✭circadian


    They're scuppered, completely. Other nations in their sphere will be looking at them as weak, Khazakhstan in particular is starting to distance itself from Russia, I wouldn't be surprised to see a softening and more European attitude in the next decade or so provided the Chinese don't start throwing money at them. An insurgency would arguably be even worse for them as it opens Russia to attack as well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭grumpyperson


    The article I gave estimates 150 - 200k dead. Not sure where you got 400k?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Symbolically at least this is a good thing, not before time. The US will likely follow. Any of their funds should be seized.

    Wagner are as bad as ISIS, and fundamentally evil. At least ISIS have the veneer of religion/ideology for their brutality. Wagner is pure and simple greed. A cancer on humanity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,418 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    They weren't even estimates. They were fantasy figures pulled out of thin air.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭paul71


    I posted on the other thread before I saw your post here CW, and while I also noted that France and others have said the move is largely symbolic I am of the opinion it is not. Displaying Wagner symbols, raising finance or supporting Wagner will become a criminal offence. The 100k + men fighting for wagner will be classified as terrorists. Those men fopr the rest of their lives will never be able to leave Russia. In 40 years time if they attend a football match in Poland between Moscow and Gdansk they can be arrested, charged, convicted and serve prison sentences for membership of a terrorist organisation.


    The French and others may also be thinking of finally taking the gloves of against Wagner in Africa.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Saw that, good points well made.

    Africa suffers enough under its own psychopathic leaders (some, not all) it doesn't deserve Wagner and the Chinese.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Power move by the Polish… Anything the Chinese can do. How’s them apples, Vlad?


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/russia-angered-by-polands-renaming-of-kaliningrad-exclave-9p0xwxzhr



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,444 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Can't wait to see RT@s Solovyov's and Simonyan's reaction to that bit of news.... LOL



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,328 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    There's a whole host of authorities that would suddenly be unlocked for US forces in Africa if Wagner were a declared terrorist force. Would make it a lot more fun.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,324 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Has Wagner and its money men even been included in the various sanctions packages? Seems like an obvious set of individuals to include but I can't recall them mentioned - and too lazy to Google.

    I'm seeing unconfirmed suggestions Russia has been pushed back at Bakhmut. That's interesting if there's any truth, happening so soon after Wagner made such a stink about ammunition.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,304 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    Moscow has acknowledged that its forces had fallen back north of the battlefield city of Bakhmut in eastern Ukraine, in a retreat that the head of Russia’s Wagner private army called a “rout”.

    Taken from Al Jazeera.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,324 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Thanks; ok I'm seeing the British MoD reporting Ukraine regaining 1km of the area; it really does show what a grind that battle has become that that small area lost is denoted a "retreat". Like something from World War 1 at this point, or indeed Stalingrad, which seems more apt.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,304 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    I've not read the UK MoD version but it appears that Russia lost a river crossing which is important as the river is the current front line divider and based on Russian numbers (i.e. Russian commanders retreating are unlikely to claim less than actually was there) it was at most a battalion that pushed them back over the river. That's to put things in perspective as there are 8 batallions being set up for the counter offensive with the latest and greatest hardware Ukraine has. If one battalion can push back in Bakhmut which is heavily contested (and hence defended by Russia) that's not exactly a good sign for Russia's future defensive actions once the Ukrainian offensive starts.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Some speculation that Luka has been poisoned. If this is a prelude to Russia attacking Belarus as a consolation prize then it means they are giving up on Ukraine. Russia can’t split their forces on two fronts.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,324 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    I've no idea what the MoD is like in relation to its information but the latest breakdown of Russia's strength is pretty stark: basically their efficacy has been much reduced and reads like they're holding on by dint of larger numbers rather than experience or better technology.

    That sounds like a lot of speculation. Where and who are saying Luka has been poisoned? And what possible benefit would Russia annexing Belarus bring? If anything it'd only drive hesitant countries towards Western support. Watch Moldova, Georgia et al pull the plug on friendliness with Russia



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Speculated on the ‘other’ thread … Luka ill in hospital…

    Putin could be looking for a face saving event. Officially bringing Belarus into Russia (USSR nua) might be the big gesture. He looks done in Ukraine thanks to Ukrainian resolve and Western support.



  • Registered Users Posts: 86,189 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    I see poor Volodymyr Zelenskyy was annoyed UK would not let him make an address during Eurovision, missing the media attention



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    As were others, that he wasn’t allowed, like government.

    He’s getting plenty of media attention on his tour around Europe. Maybe Putin could try it, with the same itinerary, starting with The Hague.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,324 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    A Washington Post article suggesting behind closed doors Zelensky has proposed more aggressive attacks into Russia, including occupying villages or towns. Obviously this hasn't occured, but does throw an interesting piece of perspective from behind the curtain.

    As the article starts, many weapons have been provided under the promise they wouldn't be used within Russian territory. So I have a suspicion this is all spitballing during various crisis moments, throwing out options both realistic and fantastical.




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