Luas Finglas

DCC are profoundly allergic to high density areas. Unless there’s a concerted effort from residents to respond, we’ll get bungalows along the edges, rising to a Frank McDonald-approved five story with setback skyscraper in the middle. Roads will be 2x2 with a painted cycle lane which is parked on all the time because of the lack of physical separation. Commercial units will be required at ground floor which will inexplicably lie empty for years. And there’ll be a park in the middle.

Anyone have the direct link to that? Twiter blocked on my laptop.

Found this link online but seems to just send me round in circles. Are there any drawings etc?

I find these plans incredible.

Jamestown Business Park, Finglas Luas, Royal Canal Greenway and Dublin Industrial Estate.

Completely transformative for one of the most deprived areas in the country.

Dublin Industrial Estate is approximately 70 hectares. The Irish Glass Bottle Site and Fabrizia land are 15 hectares which as plans for 3,800 units and 10,000 residents..

So DIS could easily house 40,000 people.

Could have a town center retail area near the Luas stop and another on the East side by the Lidl and a pedestrian retail street joining them together with a park in the middle. This will give a nice village feel to it.

It'll also require schools, creches, gyms sports etc.

It's surrounded by canal, a cemetery and a park so can go high and dense.

I agree it should be as car free as possible, maybe like that new neighborhood in Utrecht.

It has Dart, Luas, Greenway and lots of buses on Finglas Rd. The N2 orbital route and F spine are right by it.

It's walkable to city center also.

Its just 15 to 20 minute walk to new Metro stations also.

It would be perfect for 15 minute city concept although I think that's just a buzzword.

Jamestown Business Park is 43 hectares so nearly 3 times the size of Glass Bottle Site.

The extension of Finglas Luas to Northwood Metro would be completely justifiable with that type of population.

Does the plan indicate where all of the businesses that are currently in Dublin Industrial Estate are supposed to move to?

People here are understandably focussing on the redevelopment potential of the location, but it is a place of work for a lot of people too!

At a guess, I would imagine that it’s a fair bit more than “a couple of hundred”.

Either way, sending them out to beyond the M50 isn’t a particularly great solution as public transport becomes less able to provide reasonable commuting alternatives to driving.

Does anyone know what percentage of houses in South and West Finglas are social housing or privately owned?

Once the Luas and rezoning and masterplan of the industrial estate comes through, it should in theory gentrify quite quickly.

But if lots of the housing is social, it won't happen so quickly.

For example Cabra East, Ringsend and Crumlin can gentrify quickly.

But Ballymun may not as I think it's 50% social housing

I don't see the big deal.

These industrial estates are very low density and should be outside the M50. It's against the traffic flow anyway.

The same will happen in the SW of the city around Bluebell area.

I think a strong factor in gentrification is the % of housing which are private as these rise in value and are sold.

Other factors are proximity to city center and areas of employment, proximity to more middle class areas, proximity to quality public transport.

Also proximity to other amenities like parks, schools, universities, sports facilities, restaurants, bars.

I think Finglas South which is currently one of the most deprived parts of Ireland, actually fulfills a lot of these criteria.

But I'm not sure how much housing is social housing. If it's a high % it'll hinder gentrification.

Great news!

It would be good to intergrate some of the exisiting light industrial into new proposals. Low key light industry can easily mix into commerical and residential developments and this will at least retain these jobs in the local rather than being pushed way out beyond the M50.

And that LUAS news is such classic Ireland. A simple 4KM line in a country apparently bursting at the seams with cash would be easily built and done anywhere else.

A lot of new apartment developments keep the bottom floor for retail/office but there's no demand so stays empty for years.

Look at Fatima for example.

So light industrial would be better in that instance.

I'd imagine any development here will include offices definitely and lots of other services.

Anyway, I think it's an exciting development.

I'd like if they got some international firms like Danish or Dutch to submit masterplans for it

There is little manufacturing happening in the DIE as you might expect in an industrial estate, most of the businesses operating there are servicing the city itself. Dublin, like any city, needs areas like this for it to operate. Moving everything outside the M50 sounds good but isn't realistic either, certainly not in the name of sustainability. Cities can't keep extending into the countryside, sprawl is sprawl even if not residential. Cities are going to have to adapt to function within certain limitations.

Any redevelopment of the DIE is for the long term and a lot can happen in the meantime. There are several large redevelopment plans much further advanced than this, some have been in the pipeline for decades and not yet delivered. While there is huge demand now, the population and number of office jobs aren't going to keep increasing indefinitely.

I'd say at most we might see a few units at the Ratoath Road end redeveloped by the end of this decade. Redevelopment might have stretched eastwards as far as Barrow Road by the end of the next decade. A lot will happen in that time and things will have evolved from where they are now.

Another Luas inspired example outside the city council area would be the update of the Sandyford area with new apartments, retail and offices. Not immediate, complete or uniform but a lot of people now live where there used to be factories and warehousing. Ballyboggan area is much closer to the city centre and has better public transport links. Similar distance to both DCU and Grangegorman campuses as Sandyford is to Belfield. I'd expect an eventual continuation of the development mix already at Ashtown/Pelletstown with another "village" area, probably focussed near a cleaned up Broombridge. Although if I imagine that too much the Luas depot itself also starts to look like something that may relocate - and I see they've included it in the planning area.

East Rd/Castleforbes development has started .

The 8th Lock apartments have gone up very quickly. Likewise Hamilton Gardens.

It shows the demand in the area.

I agree it's not as simple as empty land.

But once it's rezoned, the land value will sky rocket so will be sold.

I think it's the transport infrastructure of the area and proximity to the city center which makes it so attractive.

Assuming the Metrolink starts, it'll just be 10/15 minute walk away or short Luas trip.

Also it's a blank canvas so all modern urban planning principles can be applied with few constraints.

It might take 5 years to get started, but by then the aforementioned projects will be finished so the demand for development land will be very strong.