Energy infrastructure

I also don't expect Russia to ever supply gas or oil to Europe again, the ey is how much they will supply in world markets. None of this is operating in a vacuum, other countries could also increase or decrease their supply. Demand could also decrease or increase depending on availability of other electricity sources and especially battery storage.

Nobody has mentioned this so far but large scale battery storage could radically alter the market in the years ahead.

Don’t see how that could be true. ESB’s generation market share is under a third and falling as far as I know. ESB continue to bid for new fossil fuel projects in the capacity auctions? If they were why has the Oireachtas greenlit billions in new debt? How come ESB bid in the offshore auctions at all if it were forbidden?

How would having a partner alike ESB to anvoid any hypothetical legal barrier you are talking about? ESB bid on plenty of things without a partner in any case.

You need to do some (a lot) of research on how ESB operate since the electricity market has been liberalised, before talking rubbish on here.

Someone has tried, in detail, explaining it to you but you're ignoring it.

In short, ESB generation has to stand on its own two feet, like a private company. It can't put government subsidised bids into auctions such as these.

You know all the answers to those questions. Certainly you can argue ESB had an advantage in that they have access to cheaper funds because their shareholder doesn’t demand a return. For argument’s sake let’s say that was true. In the light of that can you explain how come ESB didn’t win the auction?

What exactly is your gripe with this auction result? You keep drifting off on tangents as your lack of knowledge gets called out and you scurry off to Google to come up with a reply.

Is it the price? Or the fact that foreign private companies are delivering the projects ahead esb? Or the fact that it's wind being developed ahead of gas/nuclear?

Or is it more fundamental in that you don't think the electricity market should have been liberalised, and should be run by state bodies (an arguement which has plenty of merit imo).

That’s not a fairly solid argument, the paying of dividends is not the only difference between the various companies bidding in the auction. It is not a perfect competition where all factors are equal. There are many differences between the various projects (for a start, they are geographically 100s of km part) and the companies behind them. Your focus on this one aspect is a weird tbh.

All fair points.

One last point I’m going to make and I’m sure I’ll be told it’s wrong- but here goes anyway.

ESB don’t build transformers or switchgear- they get ABB or Siemens to build them and ESB purchase them and thus own the transformer or switchgear.

Why can’t that happen with generators?

Likewise in an existing generating station that ESB own- they didn’t build the rotor or stator- Siemens or the likes did, yet ESB own that generator.

Why can’t ESB get company’s (pay them) to build the turbines for ESB to wholly own?

The cost of energy sprawl(pylons infrastructure etc.) associated with wind energy is being paid by consumers via levies and standing charges going to finance Eirgrid - not by these private developers

I doubt anyone on here is getting annoyed in a discussion on energy infrastructure. 😃 Sometimes you have to be blunt to cut through what can appear to be disingenuous comments (your comments since suggest this isn't the case for yourself!) on here and get to the point.

I think I get your main gripe here... Why are all these projects being farmed out to private companies taking profit instead of ESB doing everything and paying Government a dividend / being forced to have a regulated electricity price.

I agree with you in that I think power markets have been overly liberalised since the early 00s. I don't believe that critical infrastructure should be left to private companies. As with the banks, they find regulatory loopholes in order to make more profit. We're seeing this in the UK, in recent years, with ofgem handing down multimillion pound fines to energy companies for market manipulation, gouging, etc. If electricity was generated and supplied on a regulated price basis, as it was when ESB ran everything, we certainly wouldn't have seen the same degree of price spikes in the market as we have in recent years.

However that ship has sailed and power markets have been opened up. Even if we wanted, ESB couldn't deliver all the offshore wind that Ireland is aiming for. Or even the half of it. It wouldn't have the expertise or the manpower. And it would take years to build it up; as it did with it's thermal generation capacity. That's likely part of the reason ESB missed out in this auction. They don't have the offshore experience that the likes of RWE and Statkraft have, and hence have to bid higher to cover off more risk. So giving the contract to Esb at a higher price might be just robbing Peter to pay Paul.

On the auction itself, I think it's a very good price. Given it's the first auction in Ireland and the cost of building anything in Ireland relative to the rest of Europe is very expensive, we've done quite well.

I'm not sure the additional criteria mentioned would have been much of an advantage to them 😃

The price is 86 euro/MWh for 20 years. Hinckley point C in UK is currently at over 100 pound/MWh for 35 years. So you're not comparing like with like. Hinckley is also likely to be over a decade delayed.

Capacity factor doesn't matter on a generation cost basis. The windfarms don't get paid when their not generating. You're confusing this type of auction with a capacity auction, where payment is on an installed capacity MW basis.

Also new nuclear in Ireland would probably cost over 300 euro/MWh and take 20 years to complete of you could even get anyone apart from the Chinese to take it on. Hinckley is crippling EDF.