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An end to free parking?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,603 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    If someone is creating content from an obvious bias, there is nothing to be gained in giving it more attention. I was genuinely interested in the sums, but the creator was obviously leaning in the anti-car direction. When he declared himself a cyclist, it was time to dismiss it. I will listen to any balanced view. I won't entertain nonsense.

    An EV is a car. It costs less to run in most circumstances, but it is still a car and requires the same parking space as any other car.

    While my change from a small battery EV to a larger battery EV was hastened by my longer commute, I would not downgrade to a smaller battery if my commute was shorter. The larger battery serves me well if I want to drive beyond the range of my shorter range EV.

    Unfortunately, most jobs require us to be on site. This is certainly true of my job. Sometimes I need to travel abroad for my job. It can't be done on my home PC and it can't be automated. Much as I dislike commuting at all, I figure it's below the average commute time and rarely am I stuck in crawling traffic. It's a compromise. Having to take PT would be a deal breaker for me. I would just take another job.

    I agree that the logistics of everyone driving into the city at the same time is a huge issue and needs to be dealt with. Our PT network (especially DB) don't have anymore room for the scores of passengers who otherwise take their car. They are short of drivers and short of fleet supply. It doesn't make any sense. I'm glad I don't commute into the city...I go the opposite direction to the flow of traffic for most of my journey. PT would take even longer if my work was in the city. A car would still be much faster because of the earlier start time.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,038 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    100 people and 100 cars all driving to a shop to get groceries vs one delivery vehicle.

    I think you need to re-think your maths on that one.

    Fast fashion is a different issue entirely.

    No one's looking at out of town locations. That's a strawman argument.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,628 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    The aim is to enable PT to become more efficient. Currently, the main reasons PT gets delayed is because of drivers blocking bus lanes, etc.

    However, there is no aim (as per your earlier post) to stop people travelling to a supermarket or shopping centre by car. They just won't have the traffic prioritisation they have become accustomed to.

    It really is not a difficult concept to fathom!



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,038 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    80,000 EVs won't fit in a space that will only handle 40,000. No matter how cheap to run.

    Everything else you said was irrelevant. You've just said no one should listen to you because you have a car bias.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,038 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    ...in the city. You have to be specific because he's taking about a shop out of town.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,038 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    You said out of town shopping. By definition it won't be in the town. One won't effect the other.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,628 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    There is no aim to block people driving whether in a city or out of town. We simply want to encourage people to make the choice to travel by PT but there is no plan to actively block them one way or the other.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,038 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    ...



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,038 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    They've removed free parking at LV. So that ship has sailed.

    College gate is not an incentive to get people on PT its to removed congestion that blocks PT. But also to creat a Civic Space.

    “Each week over half a million pedestrians and 2 million passengers on public transport go through the College Green bus gate. This compares with just 27,000 private vehicles. However, this small number of private vehicles causes significant delays to public transport journey times in the area, particularly in the evenings and at weekends when there are no restrictions.”

    Even in the 10 years from 2009 to 2019, the decrease in cars entering at peak times has been stark — from 71,000 to 46,400 (a 35% decrease).The increase in commuters — over 28,600 — means the share of car commuters has declined too from 37.8% to 26.7% in that decade.



    Ireland’s capital city Dublin has been ranked the third slowest city in the world to drive in



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,038 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    " Dubliners pay €1,937 every year to sit in 149 wasted hours of traffic - which is more than worldwide traffic hotspots Los Angeles, London, and Tokyo."




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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,628 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    But good to know nonetheless that there is no target behind the PT strategy.

    I didn't say that the PT strategy has no targets so I'm not sure why you threw it in there. Bear in mind, this started with you asking about some kind of situation where people won't be allowed to drive. It is inevitable that in order to make PT more of a realistic and efficient choice, travel by car needs to be de-prioritised. For some reason, your line of questioning appears to be trying to get some kind of gotcha bombshell



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,628 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Its the only part of the city I recall a discussion about the complete banning of private cars.

    And again, you did not hear that so it's another fantasy within your head. Nobody has suggested the complete banning of private cars in the city centre. What they have been suggesting is the avoidance of non-essential journeys by car but you will always have a need for private cars e.g. for disabled persons.

    However, there may be more and more plans to remove all motorised traffic - all cars, vans, etc. and not just private cars from certain streets e.g. College Green but you will still have public transport and cycling allowed.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,443 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    mudderagod, he puts it in almost as an aside that he cycles at the five minute mark you mention. i cycle, and i own a car. does that make me biased that i try to use a bike when i can avoid using the car? or does that make me unbiased?



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,329 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    No because if you have a family of 4/5 you are going to be going home with 60 - 70 kilograms of shopping…. Minimum…..multiple bags….Food, toiletries, kitchen consumables and incidentals…

    we’ve also been waiting for a metro in Dublin since , well decades ago since the requirement was identified so getting the necessary public transport infrastructure to get people out of cars won’t be happening in most of our lifetimes….



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,038 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Number if People commuting by bus overtook those in cars in Dublin recently.

    Number on Public Transport combined overtook cars years ago.

    If you only looking for cars. Then that's all you'll see.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,302 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    You are being a bit facile here and it is not helpful to the reasonable arguments you make. I’m any estate built in the past 50-60 years, ie when completion bonds and similar in place, the common areas infrastructure has been funded by the sales prices of the houses. That’s an almost indisputable fact - the disputes would relate to unfinished estates where a council took over and finished it. Of course that does not mean I hat the individuals necessarily own the roads (although in some estates where the developer sold properties up to the middle of the common road, they do) they have not been funded in any other manner. Clearly where the properties are taken in charge then the LA takes responsibility for maintenance. This is is no different than what you might regard as public roads like my own; built in Rathmines in the 1880s, mostly built by Joseph Plunkett’s father (Grace, just hold me in your arms etc) where the construction of the road would have been financed by the original developers, not by the local authority.


    Argue about the use of the public realm indeed but don’t suggest that there is some grant of publicly funded space to specific individuals.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,302 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    I agree ☝️ n principle; in practice there has to be a charge as otherwise cars will simply be stored there without using the “ride”. €3.50 seems reasonable For a day.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,302 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    The workers were stupid to break the law; parking on the hard shoulder of a motorway (including approach roads) is not just illegal parking, it’s a a 3 penalty point offence. Parking on a grass verge is simply a parking fine, varies by local authority. Lobby to change the law; don’t support those breaking it. Coming off a motorway at 120kph and having a compromised exit from shitheads parking illegally? Not a great action to support.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,637 ✭✭✭Trampas


    I saw that stat about the private cars causing significant delays to pt still. How’s that if they can’t go through college green at peak hours. How’s the luas effecting buses from Dawson street onwards



  • Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭AnFearCeart


    Erm, the workers did not park on the Motorway, they were parked on the R448 (a regional road), see:

    They are parked well in from the yellow line and anyone travelling at 120kmph in either direction along this stretch deserves a fine for dangerous driving, not the parked workers for parking safely.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,038 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    ...



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,443 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    as mentioned earlier in the thread, parking on a stretch of road where there's a solid white line, is illegal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,102 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    We'll all walk n cycle no matter the distance or shite pt

    It'll be grand. 🙄



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,603 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    In other words, you've no counter argument. Nice try at dismissing sense though. How very lycra and go-pro of you.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,603 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    You say you cycle and own a car. You didn't say you own a car and a bicycle, or that you cycle and you drive a car. We are all going to be bias to our preferred and most convenient transportation. The difference is that I'm not making YouTube videos trying to spin a load of shïte about one form of transport when I favour another. The guys intro was anti-car. It wasn't going to be a video with any content I could take seriously, so I left it after he declared his preferred method of transport.

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    We will start seeing more of these places charge for park...it's already started in Dublin, I know the Cresent(Limerick) were gonna introduce that as well before CoVid19 hit... don't know if they are still going ahead with it



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,038 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Likewise no counter argument to how how you can fit cars into a space where there is no room. Very flat earther. Hoofing around a few tones of metal, plastic and precious metals around is sure to save the planet.



  • Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Charging for parking in shopping centres is a double edged sword. Pre-covid, I used to visit LV at least once every weekend, sometimes twice, but I'd need to have to have a specific reason to physically visit the centre now. Now I'd think about do I actually need to go in person or can I just get what I want elsewhere? (e.g. Amazon). The introduction of a parking charge that didn't exist before covid does also factor into that.

    Charging for parking in shopping centres is not going to encourage more people to use public transport. Its just going to encourage people to continue shopping online, as they did during covid.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,628 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    It will be part of an overall national process to deincentivise and deprioritise driving within urban areas. For want of a better term, it is a form of "death by a thousand cuts" but overall it will benefit society through less congestion on iur roads (benefitting those that actually need to drive) and a more efficient public transport system.

    Many people in urban areas should not actually need the expense of a car but we have created a society where it is pretty much necessary. However, we are now at a point where we are making it easier for people to make the choice not to feel the need for a car.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    I'm not a shopper, but if they charged for parking, I'd just go elsewhere or else online



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