The Sub 4 Support Thread

Dealerz2.0 · 26-03-2020 7:13pm

skyblue46 wrote: »

What time are you doing it at F?

8am hopefully S

Murph_D · 26-03-2020 9:32pm

Dealerz2.0 wrote: »

8am hopefully S

Intriguing idea. What’s the course? Are you measuring the 26.2 yourself?

Dealerz2.0 · 26-03-2020 10:12pm

Murph_D wrote: »

Intriguing idea. What’s the course? Are you measuring the 26.2 yourself?

I am yeah, 6.5m out and back from swords to Santry twice and get the balance in the park beside the house.

Anbocmorrua · 30-03-2020 9:19am

I'm on tenterhooks. How did it go?

ewc78 · 30-03-2020 9:37am

Anbocmorrua wrote: »

I'm on tenterhooks. How did it go?

I would presume he didnt do it because of the new restrictions that came into place Friday night.

Itziger · 30-03-2020 9:50am

ewc78 wrote: »

I would presume he didnt do it because of the new restrictions that came into place Friday night.

Poxy bastid.

Dealerz2.0 · 30-03-2020 10:39am

Race report:
....Hit the wine and Mr Kipling cakes during Friday nights press conference..woke up groggy, went for a 1 mile out and back loop to clear the head...found a strong motivation to keep going, calculated how many loops I would have to do, swung by the house, grabbed some gels and went back out..I went well for 19.5 miles...neighbours thought I was nuts...but the motivation left me very quickly when I realised I had 6 miles left...stopped after 20 miles of loops...2:57 on the watch.

smashiner · 31-03-2020 10:15am

Heroic effort Dealerz2.0, I think that the wine and Mr Kipling cakes were excellent choices for carb loading..;)

You were well on track for a Sub 4, so I think that you just restart your Gamin in few days time and finish the last 6 miles and the Boards Community will no doubt acknowledge your Sub 4 achievement!

Mind yourself in the coming days and don't overdo it either.

If this quarantine goes on for a while we should set up a 'Sub 6 Hour' thread cos that is all people will be able for come October......the DCM will be renamed the 'Dublin City Sponsored Walk'.....:D:D:D

Keep up the madness guys...it will get us through this!!

ewc78 · 07-12-2020 4:49pm

Just reviving this after 9 months.
New year just around the corner so hopefully with it will bring an actual race to do!
I personally had no interest in virtual marathons so haven't gone any further than a solo half since DCM 19.
Got a PB for that solo half I did so without any specific training for anything I'm motoring along nicely.
Feeling good about my chances for sub 4 next year, certainly feel not training for a Marathon this year may have actually been a benefit to me as I wasn't putting myself under any pressure and was just getting out running and enjoying it.
Have actually ran more miles this year than in any other year and have to say I'm enjoying my running more than I ever have.
Like I said I haven't trained for anything specific but set myself little goals since the first lockdown like a certain milage goal for the month or run everyday in a month. Just kept me interested and something to aim for, wasn't taking anything all that serious. Would do a time trial for a 5 or 10km every now and then but nothing was ever really planned or trained for.
How is everyone else doing and did anyone break the sub 4 in the Virtual?
I'm keen to do a Marathon as soon as possible next year.
Last few years I've considered one in Portumna but never registered, the Portumna Forest Marathon. If its on next year I think I'll do it.
I'm signed up for Dublin also anyway and I've my name in the London ballot which I obviously won't get anyway.

BeginnerRunner · 07-12-2020 6:11pm

Outta interest, what sort of landmark 5k, 10k and half times do people focus on as a predictor of a sub 4 full?

Laineyfrecks · 07-12-2020 8:00pm

BeginnerRunner wrote: »

Outta interest, what sort of landmark 5k, 10k and half times do people focus on as a predictor of a sub 4 full?

I ran my 1st marathon in 2019 as part of the novices group here. I followed the boards plan & found it great. My times before the marathon were 5k 21:29, 10k 47:07 & my half marathon which was my 1st that year was 1:43. I found the plan & the thread really good for accountability & consistency! I'm sure others on here can advise more. The key to the training was training to my current ability & not a time I had in my head! Took a while to sink in but it defo helped me

ariana` · 07-12-2020 8:01pm

BeginnerRunner wrote: »

Outta interest, what sort of landmark 5k, 10k and half times do people focus on as a predictor of a sub 4 full?

A rough guide for novice marathoners is (2 * HM) + 20mins and for more experienced marathoners (2 * HM) + 10mins.

A sub 1:50 half would be a decent indication but nothing is guaranteed especially in the marathon and even more so in a first marathon.

partyguinness · 09-12-2020 2:08pm

BeginnerRunner wrote: »

Outta interest, what sort of landmark 5k, 10k and half times do people focus on as a predictor of a sub 4 full?

I took up running in Jan 2016 (at age 37). First 10km that March in 52mins and ran first HM that September (1:45) and then first marathon in April 2017 (Manchester 3:58:something)

From memory around the time:-

HM: 1:44
10k: 45
5k: 21

I was only running 3 times a week (5 miles Monday; speedwork Wednesday and basically long runs on a Sunday with the occasional Friday night run). Didnt have any plan or coach. Hit the wall at 20miles and just sheer grit got me under 4hr.

I very very rarely run 5 or 10k as a race. In fact last 10k road race was Oct 2017 in 44mins but I know that I can comfortably bring that down closer to 41min on a race day. Marathon is now 3:12.

Target next year is to spend first 6 months on shorter distances (sub 20- 5k and sub 1:30 HM) and then try for 3:05 and BQ in the autumn.

A big factor was also changing diet. In the first 7 months alone I lost a good 21lbs. I was 5'10 (still am) and 13 and half stone. Not a disgrace but was defo on the cusp of being classed overweight. Usual excuses- busy job, young kids and lack of regular sport.

Today I am 3 stone lighter.

BeginnerRunner · 09-12-2020 6:16pm

partyguinness wrote: »

I took up running in Jan 2016 (at age 37). First 10km that March in 52mins and ran first HM that September (1:45) and then first marathon in April 2017 (Manchester 3:58:something)

From memory around the time:-

HM: 1:44
10k: 45
5k: 21

I was only running 3 times a week (5 miles Monday; speedwork Wednesday and basically long runs on a Sunday with the occasional Friday night run). Didnt have any plan or coach. Hit the wall at 20miles and just sheer grit got me under 4hr.

I very very rarely run 5 or 10k as a race. In fact last 10k road race was Oct 2017 in 44mins but I know that I can comfortably bring that down closer to 41min on a race day. Marathon is now 3:12.

Target next year is to spend first 6 months on shorter distances (sub 20- 5k and sub 1:30 HM) and then try for 3:05 and BQ in the autumn.

A big factor was also changing diet. In the first 7 months alone I lost a good 21lbs. I was 5'10 (still am) and 13 and half stone. Not a disgrace but was defo on the cusp of being classed overweight. Usual excuses- busy job, young kids and lack of regular sport.

Today I am 3 stone lighter.

That's an amazing read, and very encouraging. Thanks for sharing!!

BQ seems to be the thing every dedicated runner aspires to...

smashiner · 10-12-2020 9:31am

Glad to see this thread going again after months of hibernation...

I am not a big fan of virtual races either, but I did manage to keep the wheels greased running and general fitness wise over the past 9 months with running 2 or 3 times a week and a bit of pool/sea swimming thrown in.

After 4 previous attempts at the DCM, I finally managed to break 4 hours in DCM 2019 (3:58:20) and the key for me was actually SLOWING DOWN my long runs to 6:10 per KM. It sounds a bit mad, but I followed the advice from the people on this thread (who knew best) and the concept was that it is steady endurance building without being wrecked for 2 days after.

I was running 4 days a week, LSR, recovery run, speed session 500m/1K sprints, and handy/junk run of 6-10K with a bit of cross training (swimming for me) and a nice bit of stretching and foam rollering (so important). I didn't get injured once, which was amazing for me as I tend to always pick up niggles when training for longer stuff.

On the day I took it handy for the first half and ended up with a minute and a half negative split with my last 6 miles being my fastest section of the DCM and I really enjoyed the bit from Fosters Avenue to the finish line (I normally crawl this section on all fours).....

It actually changed the way I prepare for any event now......slowing down is the new speeding up.....:D

Follow the advice from the mentors on this thread and you will be in with a great shout of Sub 4.

Anbocmorrua · 11-12-2020 3:44pm

This is very encouraging, thanks for sharing. I have my first ever marathon booked for Oct 2021, postponed from this year. My goals in decreasing order of importance are:

1) get through the training and get to the start line injury-free
2) go the distance
3) sub 4.
4) sub 4 and then a bit

For info, my PBs are 5k: 21m, 10K: 44m, 10M: 1h15, HM: 1.41

Anbocmorrua · 05-08-2021 12:48pm

Reviving this thread. I just completed week 8 of my plan and ran my first ever 20-miler, which went about as well as I could expect. So far so good. However this week I've lost all motivation. I just don't fancy it. My plan says 14m midweek and 16m at the weekend (with 12 at marathon pace).

Does anyone else ever feel like that? What do you do to get the motivation back?

Laineyfrecks · 05-08-2021 3:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117710130#Comment_117710130

Sounds like you are well into your plan & getting on well! I did my 1st Marathon in 2019 & followed the novice thread which really was brilliant & helped me along each step of the way. Is your target an actual race or a virtual one? Either way having an actual goal to focus on is great motivation in itself. It is hard to keep yourself motivated all the time, especially when the mileage starts creeping up. I think once you acknowledge it as a bad day/few days then that's ok, put it behind you & move on. If you run alone could you get someone to run with you for part of the run? Maybe download some new different songs/podcasts? I felt unmotivated for some of my training for my 1st marathon & still do sometimes, I genuinely think it's a normal part of running. All I can add is that when you tow the line of your 1st marathon feeling good that you have put the work in, it will be so worth it! And the feeling of finishing it is absolutely amazing😊 Very best of luck with it!

Anbocmorrua · 05-08-2021 4:00pm

Thanks Laineyfrecks. All great tips. It's a real actual marathon with actual other runners. Hopefully. I try to find other runners to go with but sometimes that just doesn't work due to life, etc. Up until now I've always run light and taken the minimum amount of gear with me but maybe I'll have to try some musical accompaniment. I'm going to force myself out the door tomorrow and see what happens.

Laineyfrecks · 05-08-2021 4:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711384#Comment_117711384

Nothing like a real race to focus on with actual other runners🤣 After 2 DCM postponements I too am finally getting to run my 2nd marathon in Manchester, to say I'm looking forward to it is an understatement!! I get running light, sometimes it feels like too much hassle bringing other gear but once you are safe enough & keep your wits about it would be no harm to try the music/ podcasts. I have many playlists for my moods & the runs I'm doing😊 Another thing that could be of interest to you or motivate you could be to start a log? Would be a way to track things for yourself & maybe get the input of some of the more experienced runners around here! Again just another option 🤗

Anbocmorrua · 13-09-2021 5:07pm

Update: Last 4 weeks of training for me, and one final very long run left. I've managed to get through without major incident so far (touch wood). I've been following the P+D 55 mile plan and, while it's been a bit of a grind at times, it's changed the way I look at things. I no longer consider 10 miles to be a "long run", and I can recover from runs a lot more quickly that I was ever able to before. So I suppose it's had some benefits. I still feel woefully under-prepared though and am getting very nervous about the big day.

I'm doing the Manchester Marathon, and we've just been told that the start times have been pushed back from the advertised 9am. In my case I'll be starting closer to 11am. That really sucks. I'm going to have to re-think my pre-race eating plan and my race strategy if it's a warm day. Any tips for that would be most welcome.

Finally, for now, I still haven't embraced the running with music thing. I guess I prefer to be lost in my own thoughts after all.

Supercell · 17-09-2021 9:31am

I'm running Belfast in a couple of weeks and hoping to finish around 3:50 for my first marathon.

I have question about fuelling along the way, maybe someone with more experience could comment?

I have IBD (Ulcerative colitus) which basically means the longer the run the more dodgy my tummy and below gets in general. With that in mind I'm planning my last gel around mile 17 so my question is this, is there any benefit to front loading gels say every three miles or so during the first 12 miles (when tummy etc is OK) or should i try to spead them out more evenly? If I front load will I be loosing out in glycogen at the end of the race or it doesnt matter? Thanks!

Murph_D · 17-09-2021 10:19am

My understanding is that you can only store so much glycogen (about 2 hours worth for the well trained runner), so if you are properly loaded before the race, you won’t absorb any more by eating more gels than you can store in the early miles. You need to try to match the intake to the depletion. But if you are properly topped up by halfway, you might just about make it to the end.

Murph_D · 17-09-2021 10:21am

The bigger issue is really that it’s probably too late to be experimenting like this. Better to try these strategies during your long training runs.

Supercell · 17-09-2021 10:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117903097#Comment_117903097

You are not wrong there! only thought about it this morning as a fuelling strategy to be honest and wondered if there was any conventional wisdom on it.

I'll err on the side of caution so and spread out evenly during the run as thats what i have been doing up until now, next one is the Connemarathon in Spring so I'll practise different fuelling strategies for that one instead.

ewc1978 · 10-10-2021 4:08pm

Original thread starter here just checking back in.

Well I finally ran sub 4 today in Manchester finishing in a time of 3:25

I knew I would break sub 4 easily today as my times have plummeted in the last year to 18 months in other distances and I’ve had a great training block,the goal was actually sub 3:30 but it’s still the first time I’ve gone sub 4.

Made a few changes to how I train since Dublin 2019 which was my last attempt and it’s paid dividends today.

Im not one for race reports but today went as well as I could have hoped for.

Murph_D · 10-10-2021 8:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118001401#Comment_118001401

Congrats! That's certainly knocking it out of the park. When you have time, the changes you made to training might be useful to share. Well done again.

ariana` · 11-10-2021 8:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118001401#Comment_118001401

That's super and sub 3:30 while you were at it, talk about killing it, As D said, would love to hear more detail about your training etc.

I also broke 4 recently, running 3:51 just over a week ago, delighted to tick the box 😊

ewc1978 · 11-10-2021 9:45am

To be honest it’s not some magic formula I discovered or anything like that. I’ve basically just adopted a quality over quantity approach to my running.

For this Marathon block for example, I never ran more than 4 times a week and usually it was only 3 times. What I did though was introduce lots of cross training and a bit of strength training/weightlifting.

I never felt tired or unmotivated like I have in other plans where I’ve logged lots(and lots) of miles. I was looking forward to each run and I enjoyed the cross/strength days.

What works for me might not work for others, but I believe that to be the case for any training plan. All I can say is this worked for me and I’m going to keep it up.

I started training like this about 12 months ago and all my PBs have dropped, of course these were all GPS measured time trials as there were no races but I still feel this is the best training approach for me going forward.

Anbocmorrua · 11-10-2021 10:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118002329#Comment_118002329

I was about to ask the same thing. It's a phenomenal improvement. Really well done!

FinnC · 13-10-2021 9:19am

Insanity Is Doing the Same Thing Over and Over Again and Expecting Different Results

Fair play to you ewc1978 for admitting you needed a new approach and doing something about it.

I train the same way you do and I consider changing to this way of training was the sole reason that got me to the promised land of a sub 3 Marathon after many failed attempts.

Best of luck with your future training, its time for you to have a look at the sub 3 thread 😜😱

BKWDR · 15-10-2021 2:53pm

Got sub 4 in Belfast on my 2nd marathon ever.

Like some distances and times, do people find that once they achieve the sub 4 , that its nearly easier to replicate it or is it just that the marathon is a different animal and too many moving parts?

Well done OP on your recent sub 3'30

Murph_D · 16-10-2021 11:13pm

It depends on who you are and where you’re coming from. For a male runner under 50, I’d say sub-4 is a pathway to sub-3:30. Everything else will be a bonus. If you are in your 30s or 40s, be more ambitious, maybe. Up to you really.

Anbocmorrua · 19-10-2021 2:22pm

With so much success around here do we need a sub 3.30 thread?

Murph_D · 20-10-2021 12:05am

We have one already.

JKerova1 · 01-04-2023 6:38am

Anyone here aiming for sub 4 in Cork this summer?

masterK · 03-04-2023 10:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120426240#Comment_120426240

Yep sure am. Travelling down for the weekend so really looking forward to it.

weadick · 03-04-2023 4:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120434479#Comment_120434479

How's your training coming along? This is my first ever attempt at a full marathon. So far I'm up to about 16 miles on training runs. Feels like a long way to go to 26!

masterK · 05-04-2023 8:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120436161#Comment_120436161

It's going pretty well so far, the next 5 weeks will be the toughest part. Best of luck on the first attempt, this will be my 2nd.

Not sure if anyone listens to the Any Given Runday podcasts, they did an episode recently on Cork

https://open.spotify.com/episode/7d24gcvcUUdp4ckmi5KpFb

For those of us not from Cork according to their guest the route is downhill all the way with the wind on your back the whole time😂

Bluesquare · 05-04-2023 8:00pm

i have only ever did the half in Cork -my memory of the hills is slightly different 🤣.

Good luck to both of you .

Have you did any tune up races ? Have you a pace plan for the day? What shoes are you wearing ?

Hopefully I will be targeting sub4 myself come October so always looking for info

weadick · 05-04-2023 9:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120445484#Comment_120445484

I did the Cobh 10 last week. The race went really well and I was delighted with my time. My legs are really sore though, must have been all the steep down hills! I haven't really any plan formulated yet. At the moment my long runs are up to 15 miles so it still feels a long way off before marathon distance. I have always used Brookes runners since 2015 and find they give great support.

Murph_D · 05-04-2023 11:48pm

Cork is a great marathon and a fair course. This thread is probably more about consistent <4 hour training than particular marathon courses though. The more interesting question is: if you your Cork goal is sub-4, what are you bringing to it, training wise.

ewc1978 · 06-04-2023 9:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120442518#Comment_120442518

No harm in discussing the course if you are both running Cork and both going for the same goal time. It’s a decent enough course alright though and probably a better course than say Dublin if you are going for sub 4 for the first time though wouldn’t have the same level as support around the course as Dublin would.

Best of luck anyway to the both of you.

It was me actually who originally started this thread and it took me a few attempts to break 4 so don’t be too disheartened if it doesn’t happen this time especially for those attempting it for the first time. Have a read back through the thread there are plenty of good comments and advice from plenty of different posters with various ideas about training. Just remember one size doesn’t fit all, people respond differently to different types of training. It was only when I realised this my training and times started to improve. There’s more than one way to skin a cat!

Murph_D · 10-04-2023 11:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120446947#Comment_120446947

Fantastic to hear this news, ewc78. Where did you break the sub-4? I note from the other thread that a sub-3 is in your sights so obviously the breakthrough was decisive, which is fantastic to see. You mentioned earlier about cross training being a big part of the approach, can you tell us more? Really incredible progress!

weadick · 14-05-2023 4:45pm

If you are training for Cork in June would you be beginning to taper around now or is it too soon? I'm following a programme since late January. I did a 20 mile run over a week or so ago and did 16 miles yesterday. I'm just wondering is it too soon to be cutting down the distance of the long run? It seems a big jump to go from 20 miles training to 26.2 on marathon day...I don't feel confident.

Murph_D · 14-05-2023 9:10pm

What does the programme say? If following it since January, might as well stick with it. It's normal for the long runs to reduce in length over the final few weeks. And not unusual for the long run to peak at 20 miles. What's your marathon history to date?

weadick · 15-05-2023 12:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120597579#Comment_120597579

Yeah it says my longest run should be 20 miles. This is my first attempt at a marathon, so I'm just a bit uncertain if I'm doing the right thing.

Murph_D · 15-05-2023 2:51pm

Sounds like you are going about it correctly. What’s the plan that you’re using? Best of luck with it all.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120597994#Comment_120597994

weadick · 04-06-2023 4:00pm

Finished 4.09 today in Cork. Feel pretty deflated at the moment. I'd never really experienced running in that kind of heat before. Glad to have my first marathon done but dissapointed not to break 4.

4Ad · 04-06-2023 4:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120676991#Comment_120676991

I'm well used to running and I struggled on a 10k this morning.

I'd imagine you will easily break 4 hours.

Just pat yourself on the back on a doing a marathon...Well Done.

How many people do you know have finished a Marathon !!

The Sub 4 Support Thread

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