Leinster Team Talk Thread (Love you Furlong time)

Former Former Former · 16-05-2023 6:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120602031#Comment_120602031

Wait. Does this mean I shouldn't have got URC TABLE TOPPERS 2023 tattooed across my back?

No. I won't start second guessing myself.

It just seems odd that people would be saying the league is much tougher now but also being top of said league table twice is no indication of a team's quality.

Or that a team can't beat quality French and English teams despite repeatedly beating quality French and English teams.

The one difference between Leinster and the other URC teams is none of the others had to fight on two fronts the last two years. And as the URC gets tougher, that becomes a bigger ask.

For all the quality and depth of La Rochelle, two weeks after they won Europe they got thumped by Toulouse in the Top 14 QFs. The previous year, LAR got to both finals and lost both. Toulouse won the Top 14 last season and got hockeyed by Leinster, now they've topped the table again... and got hockeyed by Leinster again. When Toulouse did win the double in 2021, they had 4 weeks between the European final and their first Top 14 playoff.

Leinster aren't an outlier in failure here. Maybe LAR can pull it off this year but you'll get very good odds on it. This isn't easy, hence my utter conviction that Leinster were right to rotate the squad as much as they did on Saturday.

eagle eye · 16-05-2023 6:43am

Leinster rotated for the URC pretty much all year. When you've got the depth in quality they have it's a smart move.

What do you think is going to happen if you don't give players opportunities?

So the likes of Ala'alatoa, Molony, Deegan, Ruddock, Byrne x 2, O'Brien x 2, Ngatai, Kearney have played a lot in the URC. Is it fair to drop them all because you reached the semi-final?

Well I don't think so.

pickarooney · 16-05-2023 7:01am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120601935#Comment_120601935

Hardly. You get nothing for topping the league. Knockout games are where it's at and Leinster have shat the bed repeatedly when it mattered.

pickarooney · 16-05-2023 7:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120601941#Comment_120601941

It's the #2 league by virtue of the Premiership collapsing in on itself, let's be honest.

Former Former Former · 16-05-2023 7:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120602113#Comment_120602113

Leinster have shat the bed repeatedly when it mattered.

You only think this is true because you and the other one have decided that the only games that "matter" are the ones we lost. So by definition, you're right, because you invented a defintion to make yourself right. Well played.

Winning multiple Pro14s? Doesn't matter.

Beating all these English and French teams in quarter and semi-finals? Doesn't matter

Finding it hard to win tough play-off games week after week after week? THEY'VE SHAT THE BED

Prioritise one tournament over other? SEE, BED-SHITTERS, TOLD YOU

I'm not going to persuade you but I think you're being way too hard on them. There's no team you can point to that has managed to do what you expect of Leinster

eagle eye · 16-05-2023 7:16am

If you are calling the URC the second highest tournament quality wise in Europe then how many teams would beat La Rochelle, Toulouse and Racing 92?

I think the only team I'd put on or above their level is Leinster. I know Racing had a bad year but that's all it was, one bad year.

phog · 16-05-2023 7:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120602098#Comment_120602098

If Leinster hadn't a game this weekend would Leo have rotated last weekend, me thinks not, a lot more of those players sitting in the stands would have been playing.

Despite your attempt to normalise the rotation, the rotation happened for one reason and one reason only and to be fair any other team with that amount of quality would do exactly the same thing if in the same situation

AbusesToilets · 16-05-2023 7:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120602130#Comment_120602130

I'd say any of Ulster, Munster, Stormers, Sharks and Bulls would be a good match for them.

Clegg · 16-05-2023 8:05am

Fierce amount of bullshit going on in here this morning.

stephen_n · 16-05-2023 8:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120601780#Comment_120601780

Leinster are considered dominant in Europe because they are. Yes it’s one win but also beaten finalists twice. Beaten semi finalists 3 times. Leinster are consistently amongst the top teams in Europe in the last 10 years. Bar one or two years.

Does that mean the league doesn’t matter, no it doesn’t. Which is why we have topped the regular season for the last 2 years. Even with the SA teams in it. However none of the other URC teams are in Europe at this point. So they don’t have the same demands. We gambled last week and didn’t go strong enough on the bench. We lost by a point, to a late DG. The gamble wasn’t far off being correct. I’m still a little annoyed we didn’t go with one of JGP, RB or RR on the bench though.

pickarooney · 16-05-2023 9:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120602129#Comment_120602129

Leinster beat Munster and Stormers twice in the league but both of those teams are in the final (Stormers for the second time in a row). When all is said and done, those defeats don't matter to the finalists. Those victories don't matter to Leinster who would have made the play-offs regardless, but the knock-out defeat did matter. It ended their domestic season.

Leinster won all those titles because they won the final, not because they had accumulated the most points over the season.

You can lose 7 or 8 times in the league and still win it once you win your three knockout games, i.e. the ones that matter on an individual match level.

New Zealand beat everyone repeatedly for 24 years but when it really mattered, in the World Cup, they shat they bed.

AdamD · 16-05-2023 9:15am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120602008#Comment_120602008

The connection being lost of course here is that Ireland are the number 1 ranked team in the world largely due to the work being done by these coaches in Leinster...

16-05-2023 9:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120602206#Comment_120602206

100% agreement.

How do you see the team for this weekend? Do you put Conan or Baird on the bench for impact after 60 mins? Start Molony or Jenkins?

My team would be:

Keenan, J O'Brien, Ringrose, Henshaw, Lowe, R Byrne, Gibson Park, Porter, Sheehan, Furlong, Molony, Ryan, Baird, Van der Flier, Doris.

Reps: Kelleher, Healy, Ala'alatoa, Jenkins, Conan, McGrath, H Byrne, Ngatai.

It may seem harsh for Conan not to start, but I think Baird has been just excellent of late, and Conan will bring huge impact off the bench alongside Kelleher, Healy, Jenkins etc.

salmocab · 16-05-2023 9:51am

I think Conan will certainly start, beyond that the only calls are Molony/Jenkins I suspect Molony starts, is Lowe okay to start and then who gets the 23 jersey.

16-05-2023 10:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120602541#Comment_120602541

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Conan starts, but I would go with Doris at 8 and Baird at 6.

I think whoever doesn't start in the 12 shirt between Henshaw or Ngatai gets the 23 shirt. It would mean a bit of rejigging if we get an injury in the back three, but there isn't a back three players for me who is holding their hand up for the 23 shirt.

RichieRich_89 · 16-05-2023 10:01am

I think you probably put out the same team again from the weekend. Give them a chance to redeem themselves against La Rochelle.

sydthebeat · 16-05-2023 10:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120602585#Comment_120602585

haha, nice one richie

aloooof · 16-05-2023 10:11am

I’d be amazed if Conan doesn’t start tbh.

He’s a player I thought had lost a lot of form over a 12 month period or so (which coincided with his medical issues) but since the middle of the 6 Nations or so he’s been brilliant. Probably better than his Lions form tbh.

Former Former Former · 16-05-2023 10:11am

I think Larmour v JOB is the only real call in the backs (if Lowe is really OK). Henshaw looks to be fully fit so he'll start at 12 IMO.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Baird start at the second row, Doris at 6 and Conan at 8. Would be harsh on Molony but still.

16-05-2023 10:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120602634#Comment_120602634

If Lowe is okay, then JOB versus Larmour isn't even a call for me anymore - I'd think its JOB in a slam dunk decision. I don't have enough faith in Larmour not to make a big mistake tbh. JOB has had a significantly better season than him, and links the play far better.

If you start Larmour, then JOB is an obvious guy for the 23 jersey, but I think JOB has to start.

The problem with Baird in the 4 shirt is how much the LHP seems to struggle in the scrums then. I think it'll be Ryan & Jenkins in the row, but I'd go for Molony & Ryan.

TRC10 · 16-05-2023 10:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120602406#Comment_120602406

Well if we're reducing Leinster to essentially a development training camp for the national team, then I guess they've been incredibly successful. But if we're treating them as a rugby team who's purpose is to win things, then they've objectively underachieved over the last 6 years.

sydthebeat · 16-05-2023 10:26am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120602653#Comment_120602653

100%

JOB is a superior rugby player to Larmour currently, even if Larmour has a bit more "x" factor.

However one of the reason id have JOB over Jordan currently is that jordan hasnt been able to show that X factor too often this season.

RichieRich_89 · 16-05-2023 10:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120602602#Comment_120602602

In all seriousness though I think I'd go for:

Porter
Sheehan
Furlong
McCarthy
Ryan
Baird
van der Flier
Doris
Gibson-Park
R. Byrne
Lowe
Henshaw
Ringrose
J. O'Brien
Keenan
Kelleher
Healy
Ala'alatoa
Jenkins
Conan
McGrath
H. Byrne
Ngatai

Not sure on the leaving Conan out bit though. He's been a big player for Leinster and Ireland over the past 6 months or so.

sydthebeat · 16-05-2023 10:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120602707#Comment_120602707

But if we're treating them as a rugby team who's purpose is to win things, then they've objectively underachieved over the last 6 years.

if winning 5 cups in the last 6 years is considered "under achieving" how do we categorise the other three irish provinces performances in that time, summing to a grand total of zero cups between the three of them?

Is munster ulster and connachts "purpose" not to win things?

stephen_n · 16-05-2023 10:33am

Conan has to start, his form in the last 3 months has been as good as he ever was. On both sides of the ball he is excellent. Obviously moving Doris to 6 has its drawbacks but it also creates space that Conan can exploit. Baird will be a great impact sub to have in the last 30 of the game.

I’d agree totally with FTD, JOB all day ahead of Larmour. For everything Larmour can bring in attack, his defence is still a problem. Also JOB is a much better link player. Is Larmour actually fit?

Jenkins will bench, I’m not sure he’s shown enough to displace Moloney.

sydthebeat · 16-05-2023 10:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120602725#Comment_120602725

yeah id very very similar to that line up.

The big call is whether you bench Baird for conan, and put Doris at 6. its 50/50 for me. Conans recent performances demand a start, yet Baird can do things no other rugby player of his size can.

Jump_In_Jack · 16-05-2023 10:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120602527#Comment_120602527

That's a smashing side, but I would consider starting Jenkins or Joe McCarthy with Ryan, and have Molony to come off the bench.

Just think the physicality level will be through the roof and not convinced Molony would be the best choice.

Baird over Conan is a fair enough call in that regard also. Deegan was good at the weekend also, if being ruthless with selection I wonder if there's a chance he gets in ahead of Conan?

If Larmour is fit I'd consider him for the 23 jersey also.

Best of luck at the weekend to Leinster, I'll be cheering for ye anyway!

16-05-2023 10:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120602725#Comment_120602725

Fair call on Joe McCarthy - think he's had good cameos against the Sharks and Munster, but just doubt he's had enough time to push himself into the trio.

I'd be shocked if Ross Molony isn't in the 23.

There aren't too many other positions of contention - though you could definitely make an argument for picking Ngatai ahead of Henshaw at 12 on form.

TRC10 · 16-05-2023 10:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120602748#Comment_120602748

The other 3 provinces don't have the no.1 ranked national squad in the world

RichieRich_89 · 16-05-2023 10:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120602781#Comment_120602781

I wonder if Farrell was selecting it would he go for Baird in the second row alongside Ryan, with Doris and Conan both starting in the backrow, and McCarthy and Deegan (?) benching

Leinster Team Talk Thread (Love you Furlong time)

Comments