Fighter jets for the Air Corps?

You barely answered any questions I put to you.

Take a look back and you’ll see I asked quite a few, instead you went down the petty name calling route.

The idea you seem so against Ireland being able to defend itself is just laughable.

The Tánaiste spoke in the Dáil today about the procurement of primary radar for surveillance of Irish airspace and how complex the establishment of such a system will be. Realistically, the acquisition and bringing to operational capability of aircraft for air defence, which I assume would also require the radar system to be operational, must be many years in the future at this point. There is a long way to go.

I have to say "Ongoing Reflection" is a new one

Some of you are too young to remember a similar time in the 80s, when Ireland lacked 24 hour Search and Rescue, and we relied on the RAF and the RN, to cover our shores outside office hours. In fact we had no offshore rescue capability whatsoever.

So eventually, after one too many Irish people died due to the Heli being just too far away, the Irish Govt made a big song and dance, and, having seen the RAF and RN cover our coasts with reliable airframes such as the Wessex and Sea King, decided to instead be launch customer for the Naval dauphin, buying 5, (only 2 fitted for Naval use, all available for SAR and VIP transport).

Many lives were saved, but the aircraft was too small, so the crew had to decide between carrying enough fuel to get to an alternate, or lifesaving equipment. Also useful technology to bring the aircraft home by autopilot in IFR conditions, was not approved for use by the Air Corps.

All the above, along with a catalogue of other systematic causes, led to the deaths of 4 brave members of the Air Corps, when their Dauphin (Dh 248) crashed into a sand dune in Tramore in Heavy fog while returning from their first shout when Waterford SAR heli went 24 hr. The minister of the day said "I'll get you bigger Helicopters for SAR and troop transport!" And a tender was launched which came down between the Sikorsky S92, the EH101 from European Helicopter Industries (Now part of Agusta) and the Eurocopter EC225. (An Updated Super Puma which had not yet flown). Of course that went wrong after the S92 had been selected, and the contract was cancelled.

By now the Coast Guard were using the Civilian Sea King, the S61n for SAR in Shannon. In time they replaced the Air Corps heli At Waterford also, then Dublin. The Air Corps wanted to stay in the game, so they leased an S61 (not a sea King) and operated it initially from Finner (where A Dauphin had been based) and later on Sligo.

Of course that also went wrong, for many reasons which I won't go into, needless to say the Coast Guard took back the Air Corps S61, and begun operating from Sligo too. The Air Corps as a declared SAR asset ended on that day, in 2004 having begun in 1963 with the daylight only Alouette III. Since then the Coast Guard has transitioned to the S92, ironically the type the Air Corps had failed to get at the start of this century.

In summary, when the Government are forced into doing something urgently when it comes to Defence, they get it so wrong you wish you had never asked.

Without question it’s a complex project well outside the scope of anything the DOD has done, hell just look at how long the MRV has taken. But we aren’t inventing anything new here, surely it’s not too much out of the box thinking to pick a EU nation and model our tender specs on theirs and then throw it out to industry? I know there have been “visits” but we have no idea what that has entailed, and from memory this isn’t blank sheets we are starting from, didn’t several firms put forward their tech back when the WP floated it?

Dismal reading and not even surprising.

If the radar is bought and delivered before 2030 I’d be shocked, jets before 2050 and we will be on some serious roll.

Who were you referring to when you posted call of duty brained morons?

You actually didn’t answer any of my questions bar one which was a question you asked me that i turned back to you.

You didn’t answer my radar question, if our craft are good enough, if the navy should stay as it is.. etc etc.

like I said before, this will be a pointless exercise to tbh answer them or not I couldn’t give a bollocks. You’ve your way of thinking and the rest of us have ours but to assume we should leave a country utterly defenceless and/or unable to even remotely police our skies and seas and throw the money at something else (let me guess.. the hse) is the most stupid **** someone could say and to me says the person is one of those types of people that would oppose a 7 storey “tower” in Dublin as it blocks the views of the Dublin mountains.

I wouldn’t mind but even his point is wrong, we were bombed more than once, not too mention the attacks on Irish shipping, or those killed by washed up mines…

The Germans blew up the Lusitania off the Irish coast but I’m going to go out on a whim and predict he or she will laugh that a last event was brought up.

Looks like F16 is what being offered to Ukraine.

If fighters were going to happen it was always most likely to the F16, kind of like the Abrams it’s the one with the most stored.

Last I heard the Abrams isn't straight forward. The ones (or least some of those) in US storage have classified armour that isn't on the export model. There was talk of the US doing a deal to acquire some export models back from other countries to give to Ukraine.

Not sure where the F16s are going to come from. Seems to be a line in the sand for some.

There's a lot up in the air, thats for sure. Fairly certain however the US has shipped some to Germany for Ukrainians to start training on them. The greater issue is that most of what they are stored are fairly worn from Iraq so will take time to get into service, along with the issues of Poland wanting their order as soon as possible. But really pretty much everyone is doing backroom deals, some of the WP hardware that has been turning up in Ukraine is certainly coming from random places.

The Netherlands seems to be pushing the F16, and they are moving to the 35 so might have some spare?