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Navan- disgusting homophobic attack on schoolboy

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  • Registered Users Posts: 234 ✭✭niallpatrick


    Pushed isn't defending, they all stood around and watched the beat down, a few shoves big deal too late but it was a local kid a ratty short arse that administered the kicks to the head. The victim was set up by his own and that was the girls in the GAA trackies?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I just watched the video.

    That chap should be expelled from the school, face arrest for what is quite obviously an act of hate (I know it's not official, but the footage pretty much confirms this to anyone of common sense); and should be jailed for at least 5-7 years.

    Now look, I'm fully aware our legal system wouldn't even allow anything close to the above.

    But you absolutely have to lock the hell up these people because why on Earth would we want a society filled with aggressive psychos like that.

    (and by the way, a 'hate crime' doesn't actually change anything. What matters is that a person / group of people thought they could attack someone based on a 'difference'. The attack is what matters, not the cause. For instance: some similar group could attack someone because they were ginger, or fat, or very skinny, or some other discernible difference. We shouldn't focus on the sexuality / identity issue. What matters is that someone was attacked - and the reason for that is totally secondary).



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 23,285 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    Are you asking me or telling me? I don't know if he was set up or not. All the video shows is that 4 separate people attacked him to varying degrees. The person who threw the first punch and the person in the blue top were by far the most aggressive and probably inflicted the most harm, but 2 others - the scrawny lad in the puffy jacket who hit him from behind and another guy in a red polo shirt near the end of the video - also got their hits in too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 35,998 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    There is a new hate crime bill

    http://policereform.ie/en/JELR/Pages/PR21000084

    This was 100% a hate crime, now watch the '' aw he didn't mean anything, he was egged on, give him a break'' .. police sweep it under the carpet



  • Registered Users Posts: 35,998 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Taoiseach talking like it was some harmless bullying,

    ''I would say to them that life does get better. It is very sad that people experience violence and bullying in school, but life does get better''


    WTF


    If anyone in this video had a gun or knife this kid was dead. I was a hate crime, not bullying FFS



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    The motives are irrelevant when you’re having you’re head kicked in, I wouldn’t care if the attackers were motivated by sectarianism or some other kind of prejudice, scummers don’t always need a solid motive



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    People attack ginger people, fat people, skinny people - any point of difference will always be capitalised by the same kind of bully.

    Creating a hate crime law, that seeks to only criminalise just some of these points of difference, doesn't solve the problem.

    It re-categorises only some of the same problems.

    Perhaps we should treat all attacks the same, as equally awful as each other - whether someone is ginger, or skinny, or fat, or gay, or wears glasses, or whatever the point of difference may be.

    We cannot create a hierarchy of these kinds of attack, that somehow some are worse than others.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    By the way I find the attempt to pin this on Muslims stupid, I saw several white guys acting in a scum bag fashion , this wasn’t any sort of uniformity of mob attack, common denominator is scumbaggery



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,509 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Colour is a protected characteristic. Exclusive from race, another protected characteristic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭donaghs


    The way a gang of them quietly surrounded one person, unprovoked, and then launched into him, was very disturbing.

    To be honest, I don’t recall ever seeing that many people do that to one person, with all the types of fights, attacks and bullying etc I saw at school.

    Only comparison maybe is a gang of scumbags in Dublin City sneaking up on a random stranger.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    With respect, what's that got to do with my point?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    If they had cameraphones when I went to school there would be a video like that every week. Lads fighting on the green on the way home from school was normal. I'm not saying it was a good thing but it was regular. Maybe times are different, I don't know. People going on about hate crimes for kids fighting outside schools seems a bit over the top.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    How can this kind of attack cease to exist if we just accept it as "normal" among youth?

    Can we be clear about this, that there is nothing "normal" about that attack - and I care nothing about the cause(s).



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,509 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    You brought up hate against people who are 'ginger' - you also mentioned some groups that can fall under a disability protection.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,771 ✭✭✭hynesie08


    No element of that video can be described as a "fight". It's a gang assault.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I made a far broader point.

    That any point of difference is targeted by bullies.

    Some of these may very well, as you say, also happen to be classified as so-called "protected characteristics".

    But fat people are abused - both psychologically and physically - to a ridiculous extent in schools, yet that is not considered protected.

    Yet we continue to create this nonsense of a hierarchy of abuse - that some attacks are worse than others, because some points of difference are considered more valuable than others.

    I say let's scrap the whole lot.

    Let's treat all attacks as equally as disgusting as one another - whether it's this vile group-attack on that victim, or whether it's an attack on someone else for any other reason, irrespective of whether that reason is classified as a "protected characteristic".

    You may even say, let's not discriminate which attacks are worse than others.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,806 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    There's a little bit of a difference between two lads having a dust up and one person being set upon by a group and having the sh1t kicked out of them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭donaghs


    Getting off point, but what sane person believes humans are divided into different “races”? Did Nazi science triumph? I don’t believe it’s part of Irish law either.

    The main issue with that horrible assault is that an innocent person was attacked by a gang.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,509 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    But fat people are abused - both psychologically and physically - to a ridiculous extent in schools, yet that is not considered protected.

    Surely it depends on the case but it can be protected as a disability. USA for instance

    https://ohio-employmentlawyer.com/2012-07-can-weight-or-obesity-be-a-protected-class-sometimes-under-the-ada/


    Discriminating against or terminating an employee because he or she is overweight is generally not unlawful. Weight is not a protected class under Title VII, however, weight can be a characteristic of a medical condition. Thus, in certain situations taking an adverse job action against an employee based on his or weight (too heavy or too thin) can be a violation of the ADA. The Amendments Act to the ADA provides an expansive definition of medical conditions that render a person disabled under the law. An individual must be able to perform the essential functions of his or her job with or without a reasonable accommodation. If a medical condition causes an increase or decrease in weight, but you are still able to perform your job with or with accommodation, an employer’s adverse job action taken against you due to your weight violates the ADA. Make sure your employer understands that you have a medical condition and that you request an accommodation, if necessary.

    Read an article on Obesity under the ADA and a recent settlement on this topic.

    UPDATE:

    It seems the law is trending toward obesity as a disability. In February 2012 a Federal Judge held that severe obesity may be considered a disability. In EEOC v. Resources for Human Development, Inc., No. 10-3322 (E.D.La. Dec. 7, 2011), the employee weighed over 500 pounds at the time of her termination. The ADA does not specifically address obesity. The Court relied on EEOC’s ADA Compliance Manual which states: “being overweight, in and of itself, is not generally an impairment…On the other hand, severe obesity, which has been defined as body weight more than 100% over the norm, is clearly an impairment.” More importantly, the individual does not have to prove his or her obesity was caused by an underlying health condition. Here is an article on the topic: Summary of Obesity as a Disability. Remember: This is only one Court’s interpretation. Other Courts have reached other conclusions.

    "The EEOC had offered the expert testimony of a renowned obesity researcher that Harrison's obesity was the result of a physical disorder or disease, and was not caused by lack of character or willpower. But the court reasoned that "neither the EEOC nor the Fifth Circuit have ever required a disabled party to prove the underlying basis of their impairment.""



  • Registered Users Posts: 584 ✭✭✭SC024


    homophobic? was it? or is this more jumping on the bandwagon? Honestly hoping the young lad is ok



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,806 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    It is part of Irish law, the fact you don't know that is somewhat concerning.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,509 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I don't believe it's part of Irish law either

    Well open up a book on irish law or click on irishstatutebook.ie sometime

    http://policereform.ie/en/JELR/Pages/PR21000084



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    This isn't the US.

    Second, I've already said that we should treat any attack - irrespective of the cause - on the nature of the attack and not on the cause.

    All attacks are equally as repugnant, irrespective of the cause.

    But one thing that should be absolutely clear - is that any teenager that engages in acts such as this must be jailed for a considerable period of time.

    And no, I don't care what the lawyers say. Change the laws if we need to.

    I have no sympathy for those teenagers. None - zero - nada - zilch.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,856 ✭✭✭nachouser




  • Registered Users Posts: 82,509 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    If all attacks are equally repugnant then don't disregard the case because it happened in another jurisdiction. I simply demonstrate how simple it is to build a case that being fat is a protected trait (disability).



  • Registered Users Posts: 234 ✭✭niallpatrick


    All I seen was a kid with pink hair get a pasting from mostly non locals while his own watched and took video, I do believe the local girls in the vid set it up and the rat doing the face kicking was a local as well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,888 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Anyone get surrounded and so beaten to have severe injuries. This is not normal and should not be seen as such. To call it regular and just a normal part of life is disgusting IMO



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭tesla_newbie


    It’s hardly a stretch to conclude they were motivated by homophobia, it’s also not a stretch to imagine the same scummers would just as happily light on some other poor misfortune another day



  • Registered Users Posts: 493 ✭✭Shauna677


    This could be anyone's child, really very sad the level of violence melted out. That kid's mental health will prob never be right after that attack. Utterly shocking



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    For sure, but you've defended obesity as a "protected characteristic", but what about people abused and attacked for being too skinny?

    For being red-faced?

    For being big-eared?

    For being fashionably "different"?

    For having a stutter?

    People, whether teenagers or adults, will always find a way to attack other people - either psychologically or physically. That's because they think they can get away with it and because they are bullies.

    Having a specific set of "protected characteristics" implies that some attacks are worse than others.

    I say let's treat them all as equally bad.



This discussion has been closed.
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