EV's. More convenient than ICE cars?

Flinty997 · 17-05-2023 4:13pm

Have to say it's very rare I've had to queue for fuel.

Would it be handy to almost never have to go to a fuel station sure. Pros and cons to everything. I often discover the other half has left the car on an empty tank as we are going out the door. That could be a problem with an EV for me. Then again is probably not going to be our only car. So we could just take the other car.

graememk · 17-05-2023 5:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608310#Comment_120608310

Tyres are tyres. Nothing special about EV ones. As long as you buy ones with the correct numbers on them.

I run goodyear all season tyres. As we always get a bit of snow etc every year, And dont live on a road that gets treated.

Gumbo · 17-05-2023 5:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608739#Comment_120608739

I had a Leaf 24 while still owning my E46 M3 😃

Redfox25 · 17-05-2023 6:45pm

Dublin to Galway, do it once a month, sometimes more. M3 RWD.

Arrive in Galway at 35% after leaving at 100%. Quick top-up for 15 mins give or take in Athenry on the way home and sorted, no drama no problems. I imagine it would be quicker in an LR (ie shorter charge needed to get me motoring again).

If I had to go and the car was only half full or less, quick stop in Enfield at the superchargers there would have me on the road quickly enough.

Going to Donegal which I do about 6 times a year takes a tiny bit more work due to the lack of fast chargers up there, solution, is a granny charger once I get there and sorted.

with the right car and the right small bit of planning its grand.

graememk · 17-05-2023 7:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609436#Comment_120609436

Going from Donegal to Dublin is even easier, start full, and get a full charge and go home

Or get to 70% odd and stop for a short time either at castle Bellingham or Monaghan depending on what way you go. (Possibly could stretch it to Derry)

Getting a charge in the North should get better as now it's paid, and when they finally roll out these hubs they are banging on about.

And when home.. I'm at my home charger!

kanuseeme · 17-05-2023 7:46pm

I have to laugh, its a quick stop in obama or enfield or some other place to get a charge, yet its obviously a pain in the hole to get petrol at the same stop, 15 minutes wasted, its nearly as bad as timing chains, you would think they are changed every other month, lol,

there is only one reason I did not buy a BEV, its all the wonderful experiences different people had at chargers,

I notice that a lot of threads are about how great EVs are, interspersed with problems at chargers, be it someone blocking it or its not working or some other crap, yet pick any thread about a phev or hybrid, and nothing is going on, it seems to be that the owners are content, happy or not bothered with there car or find the need to praise it at every opportunity. LMFAO.

Buddy Bubs · 17-05-2023 8:44pm

I've never had a charger fail on me. I'm in Dublin and I've had 2 different EVs north of Belfast numerous times, limerick, Cork, westport, galway

Cyrus · 17-05-2023 9:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609757#Comment_120609757

Give it a rest, you love your outlander good for you. We all know at this stage. Do you not realise that people in bevs will have considered hybrids and discounted them?

kanuseeme · 17-05-2023 9:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120610152#Comment_120610152

Hit a nerve? lol. The outlander is 2 cars old now at this stage. I am a BMW man now.

I made an observation, it goes like this, My EV is brilliant, such a pain stopping for petrol, its fantastic stopping for electrons, I love it, no drawbacks whatsoever, even if it costs more than fuel, its a convenience I don't mind paying extra for it.

I never mentioned my phev only that the hybrid and phev threads there's nothing going on in them, ask yourself why? No one is prattling about them.

This thread is pathetic, the pain of filling up, as someone put it PTSD, lol, first-world problems.

unkel · 17-05-2023 9:58pm

@kanuseeme - "there is only one reason I did not buy a BEV, its all the wonderful experiences different people had at chargers"

@kanuseeme - "The outlander is 2 cars old now at this stage. I am a BMW man now."

Even if you did huge long distance driving in Ireland, public fast charging with a Tesla would not be an issue, there are no waiting times, plenty of chargers per location and they always work. If this really is the only reason you didn't buy a BEV, it seems it isn't and never was a valid reason? Maybe you don't want a Tesla? Or maybe they are out of budget? Although I can't see the total cost of ownership of a relatively recent BMW PHEV be wildly different from say either a second hand early Model 3 to even a brand new €40k one

I was quite surprised about that remark, you always seemed to come across as a fierce critic of BEVs and a strong fan of PHEVs because they are "the best of both worlds" in your book?

kanuseeme · 17-05-2023 10:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120610396#Comment_120610396

I can see the benefit of an EV for some, as well as the benefit of a phev for others, I do come across as a critic but its in response to comments like ''an ICE meh'' or the irrational condemnation of phevs and the just silly nonsense comments about them.

Sometimes I do consider an EV as I buy and sell a car every year, but then you read here about guys having problems at chargers or problems caused by others, I choose not to have any problems, my choice of car suits me, an EV would not be a major money saver for me, 250 euro on fuel since September 22, electricity is a little bit more expensive, as I do charge during the day but still a saving over petrol.

Telsa cars I just don't like the interiors other than the S, too expensive for now, and the supercharger network is not an advantage for me, I know there is one in Sandyford, and others dotted around the country but I have never needed to drive to Sandyford or stop at castlebellingham before why do I need to start doing it now.

I bought 2 new cars, first one was when I was 21, 2nd 3 years later, all 2nd hand in the last 26 years, I would recommend to anyone buy a new car once, 2nd time not the same feeling, so I prefer to spend around 20k or less, drive it and sell it, any 20 k EV is not what I would call a main family car, fine for city driving and occasional relaxing trips to the country, I want to go 160km to Dublin, do as much as possible and go home, all in the one day, not take a chance or divert or plan or stop, if I want to get something to eat, I don't wait till my car is preheated and down to 20% and then have a burger.

In fairness this thread about PTSD over petrol filling is hilarious,

liamog · 17-05-2023 10:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120610321#Comment_120610321

People aren't discussing experience in PHEV or Hybrid threads because the experience isn't novel compared to 100 years of filling cars with refined oil products. If you find a thread uninteresting there's a pretty easy way to avoid it by just not opening it. Nobody is forcing you take part in a discussion. If people are finding an unexpected benefit in not having to visit a petrol station then it's not your place to mock them for it.

Gumbo · 17-05-2023 10:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120610321#Comment_120610321

Why would anyone in a PHEV stop and charge on route somewhere?

Quicker and easier to keep ploughing ahead on petrol. Stopping to charge at 3.7kw is pointless.

I guess that’s why many PHEV owners don’t post about public chargers, they don’t use them, like myself.

unkel · 17-05-2023 10:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120610571#Comment_120610571

Fair enough, but there was obviously a lot more to it for you than the only reason you claimed earlier for not buying a BEV that you don't like the public charging experience other people had. As in your real main reason was that you can't afford a BEV that you like and that has a bigger range, or you can afford it but don't want to spend the money

Maybe with your massive spend on fuel it might be worth your while to do some sums? Used Model S have come down hugely in price in the last 6 months or so and charging a BEV at home is still supercheap compared to petrol / diesel. In my own case I charge at home fully from my solar panels from late April to early September, so for free and with truly zero emissions (of course the setup of my solar system was not free)

kanuseeme · 17-05-2023 11:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120610575#Comment_120610575

I suppose it is mocking, but I cannot believe the pain that was suffered by the mundane routine of filling up for the last 100 years, there should be a pobhia Or a medical term for it?

Its interesting to note, that illegal fuel use does not get a bat of an eyelid, PTSD comment gets one tame response, and another mentions queueing and bringing his diesel car, but nothing, I make one comment, and its hounded.

kanuseeme · 17-05-2023 11:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120610583#Comment_120610583

?.

kanuseeme · 17-05-2023 11:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120610619#Comment_120610619

250 euro is not massive, oh no way an S, not without warranty, no thank you, sir.

I would not throw aside so quickly other people's experiences, mad lad was the one I never forget, only needing 10 minutes and having to wait on others, then he bought a rex.

I could easily buy a 40 or 50 k car, but why should I, I can do so much more with the other 20 k, maybe solar. I am reading that forum also.

unkel · 17-05-2023 11:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120610667#Comment_120610667

That was Mad Lad. He is is one mad lad alright. Having to charge his BEV every single day on his commute to work. He saved a fortune in fuel alright, but that car wasn't even that cheap to buy. And that was a 100km range Leaf though. Back in 2015 or so. When nobody had BEVs, all public charging was free and there were zero waiting times. Thinks have moved on an awful lot in the world of BEVs since then in terms of real range!

Del2005 · 18-05-2023 7:53am

EVs are more convenient if you have access to a home charger, they are even more convenient if you can charge off solar at home, but there's thousands of properties that can't get a home charger. For an ICE there's hundreds of petrol stations and you are rarely waiting more than 5 minutes to get access to a pump, if you have an BEV without home charging then you are relying on a unreliable network and can be waiting for 30 minutes or more for access to a working charger.

Like everything BEVs have there benefits for some and are useless for others.

Even the cheap maintenance is being killed by some manufactures.

ELM327 · 18-05-2023 8:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609187#Comment_120609187

I had a leaf 24, a ford f250 7.3 v8 diesel and a 1982 rolls royce silver spirit all at the same time. I actually had to "charge" the leaf beside the other two as they were on battery trickle chargers!

ELM327 · 18-05-2023 8:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609757#Comment_120609757

If there was a PHEV with a good battery size (mercedes 350DE and land rover p440e and x5 50e are getting very close) then it makes sense over a bev, I agree. But those are at or close to six figures to buy. My latest brand new BEV was half that, with 300km real world range. Even when I did 50k miles a year I never really did more than that in a single day.

September1 · 18-05-2023 8:04am

IMHO plug and charge is more convenient than using traditional fuel station.

liamog · 18-05-2023 8:30am

Mod Note: This thread doesn't need to descend into PHEV vs EVs again. Keep to the OP's topic of convenience factors over ICE.

Cyrus · 18-05-2023 8:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120610321#Comment_120610321

How would you have hit a nerve? im just fatigued with seeing you chime in with the same stuff in every thread, we get it.

And filling up is a pain, its the one thing my wife has mentioned several times to me since we moved to BEV, im glad i dont have to goto the petrol station any more, its a pain with small kids for one thing. PTSD wasnt mentioned by any EV owner other so i am not sure why you keep bringing it up.

Cyrus · 18-05-2023 8:46am

anyway the subject of the thread, i would agree EVs are more convenient than ICE, i use public charging maybe 3 or 4 times a year so for me it is far more convenient than needing to goto a petrol station a few times a month.

Redfox25 · 18-05-2023 8:56am

So long as you have home charging or better yet free work charging and the correct car for your day to day and occasional high milage runs (or the patience to take a few mins to plan), then EVs are better than ice.

If you do 1000km a day, every day, then probably not so much so.

unkel · 18-05-2023 9:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611268#Comment_120611268

I do not think even a single person doing 1000km a day every day exists in this country. Oh wait, that was your point? 😂

micks_address · 18-05-2023 9:56am

i know around us the local petrol station in north county dublin often has a queue of cars.. before my ev id just avoid it during peak hours and be in and out in 5 minutes with 800km of range in the tank.. i dont miss petrol/diesel pumps etc but there's no arguing that you can get the same range into an ev as quick as you can with an ice car.. a home charger is great, i have solar as well.. but when you have to go across country dublin to sligo/cork i need to charge before i get back home.. it can be a bit messy... my parents have an ev charger which i sourced cheap for them which is so convenient when we visit.. i top up over night and its awesome.. not when we go to cork.. my wife doesnt want to waste 30 minutes of the journey on the way down to top up the car.. so i end up doing the full journey and hitting a local car charger down there.. more options coming up all the time but they are not cheap.. if the government really wanted to push evs they should subsidise the cost of using public chargers.. be better use of money than grants for chargers etc which the installers eat up anyway.

Buddy Bubs · 18-05-2023 10:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611451#Comment_120611451

The number of people that would exceed the range of a 350km ev daily is even a tiny subset of the population. Like maybe 1%, sales people rarely do anything like that, you'd never be in front of a customer.

Extremely rare for anyone to commute that distance either, if you do you're mad anyway.

The EV debate is becoming a little bit like buying new cars debate, many people don't want to buy new and I don't blame them, they are very pricey, both EV and ICE.

Part of the problem is everyone is being told they should be buying EV and the ICE they have is poison to the environment and people are reacting to that negatively being told what to do. Which is spend 40k to 60k on the range of EVs out there. Not achievable for most. I have never had ICE driver in either the etron or the cupra born and be less than impressed with either and at least start thinking about an EV. But maybe not for now for them.

When the current crop of EV purchasers from 2020 onwards trade in for newer and there are literally thousands of affordable ID3, ID4, Ioniq 5, EV6, Niro, enyaq, tesla, e megane, e2008 and others available on the market the EV take up will explode. Within 2 sales cycles (6 to 8 years so let's say 2028) EVs will be the dominant power train.

You just have to allow people come on at their own pace and when they are ready and budget suits them. Even wealthy people, wealthier than me, will baulk at spending 40k+ on a car if they only see them as means of transport.

n.d.os · 18-05-2023 10:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120607189#Comment_120607189

Like yourself, I find some of Bob's comments a little bit left-field.

A few people have mentioned that they don't have access to home charging and they drive long distances that would be inconvenient in an EV. I think we have all discussed all that to death.

My point is whether EVs are more convenient for "the general public" or not. I get that there are many exceptions to the rule and when you look at the population as a whole, ICE cars work for more people by quite a margin.

But...if you are a typical Joe Bloggs like myself, with an above-normal commute who does less than 40k per year, are EVs just easier?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120606411#Comment_120606411

My wife also hated stopping for petrol and I'd be much in the same boat. I always hated running into the petrol station at the beginning or end of my long commute to work. I'm not someone who just pops down the shops. I suppose I could have made it easier for myself, but I just find plugging in at home in the evening so much easier. I've "public charged" twice just to try it out. The charging stations are good fun. I generally have a sandwich and chat with other EV owners but it must be very annoying for people who are forced to be there regularly.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120606187#Comment_120606187

My commute is long and stopping twice a week for petrol often meant being soaked by the rain in the winter, freezing to death, waiting for the stupid card reader to go through the motions, or waiting for a pump to be free. Often I would have to detour to a station if I was low on fuel but I get that most people wouldn't put themselves in that scenario. I just find plugging in at home easier. It cuts out a lot of wasted time on my commute.

I don't public charge and I think if you did a survey most of the country wouldn't have to public charge either. That's a separate conversation though as many people are cornered here and have no access to home charging.

unkel · 18-05-2023 10:59am

To be honest I never saw it as inconvenient to stop for petrol once a week back in the days. However I did not like having to fork out €50 each time! That has now reduced to a few euro a week extra on my electricity bill. A bit more in winter. Zero in summer. Obviously once you have an EV and charge it at home overnight (takes literally 5s to plug in) you realise that this is far more convenient.

Like others, I rarely publicly charge, maybe a handful of times a year. The car can do a 300-400km round trip without charging. I spend less time at public EV charge points than I used to spend at petrol filling points, I think that is a point no one has yet made!

n.d.os · 18-05-2023 11:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611625#Comment_120611625

So true. I think EVS have found their way into the new car debate.

fits · 18-05-2023 11:00am

I’ve driven about 2000 km in the last six days in the ID.3 Tour. One trip to Galway , two to Dublin and was in Cork yesterday. I stopped for a total of 20 minutes for charging in Athlone Ionity - but ten would have been enough. Car is gone off again today with a full tank but I’m not driving it thankfully.

it’s unbelievably convenient.

also the place I parked in cork had a high powered charger and two destination chargers. Neither in use. Charge points are appearing everywhere.

n.d.os · 18-05-2023 11:07am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608753#Comment_120608753

I think you're missing the point. I'm not talking about Public chargers. We know they add a lot of time to longer trips but most people don't do over 350km in a day and might only use a public charger once or twice a year. There will be exceptions and I understand that. This is a discussion about home charging vs petrol stations.

Redfox25 · 18-05-2023 11:14am

I never found filling up to be traumatic, the smell of diesel isn't great but you get used to it.

The trauma would come when my biweekly or weekly fill depending on driving would cost from 60 quid to 100 at the peak of the recent fuel hikes. Throw onto that while standing queuing to pay that I would grab something sweet to nibble on while driving. Paying at the pumps helped a bit with the last bit but still painful at times to fork out that money.

The typical fill-at-home on 8c night rate is circa 4.50 euros. If I have to top up on a long drive, 20 euros normally gives me enough range to get home. I have saved circa 1300 quid since Sep on driving. (as per my app).

GSBellew · 18-05-2023 11:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120607648#Comment_120607648

Ok, so I will come in on this discussion.

Having to plan out where and how you are going to charge to be able to make a simple few hour journey is surely an inconvenience and a distinct drawback to EV ownership compared to a conventional ICE powered vehicle, in all my years of driving I have never once looked before a trip and wondered where I would have to refuel to be able to complete the journey, nor have I ever been stuck waiting in a que to refuel for anything more than minutes at any time, nor have I ever been in a situation that should there be a delay at one station that I can not drive on and refuel later.

I have driven from Coventry to Edinburgh on a Sunday evening after an exhibition, the only stops I needed to consider were for cups of coffee along the way, in a few years when it is EV only that we will be exhibiting that sort of journey will not be possible & it'll be a back of a car transporter job.

I am sure there are circumstances that an EV is convenient, I can see one being convenient for me in certain circumstances, but I have a driveway, how many houses not to mention apartments do not have driveways and do not have the possibility for home charging.

n.d.os · 18-05-2023 11:18am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611782#Comment_120611782

I think there's no disputing that EVs are significantly cheaper to run. We have two in our household and recently had solar panels fitted. With so many price increases across the board, personally, I'm doing my very best to get our household bills as low as possible, and in some cases I've saved a fortune, but there is a lot of investment required to do this, hence why I think it's best not to get into the discussion around money. If you are buying a new car, I think it makes sense from a financial point of view to buy an EV over an ICE, unless you do huge commutes every day.

Redfox25 · 18-05-2023 11:21am

Good point, I just equate saving money with convenience as well. Would love solar but the orientation of the house and shape of the roof doesn't lend itself to solar in the current house.

Plugging in at home and getting up the next morning to a full car for a cheap charging fee is very handy.

n.d.os · 18-05-2023 11:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611797#Comment_120611797

Do you do a lot of long-distance journeys in a week? I agree that an EV would be inconvenient in this case.

We've talked to death about driveways. Let's assume most people in this country have one. I know there are many exceptions but it's counterproductive to this conversation around typical EV vs ICE usage.

n.d.os · 18-05-2023 11:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611815#Comment_120611815

An east/west system might work for you. I'm sure the solar panel company will do everything they can to get money out of you 🤣 but if you don't plan to stay there, it may be best to wait.

Redfox25 · 18-05-2023 11:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611837#Comment_120611837

The shape of the roof doesn't work along with the orientation of the house. We had 2 companies tell us they would put up panels but it wouldn't be worth while.

I'm holding out for the next move and just trying to get this house as efficient as I can in the meantime.

the_amazing_raisin · 18-05-2023 12:46pm

As an interesting thought exercise, I tried to calculate the time difference between charging an EV and an ICE for myself

For me, it's approximately 10 mins to the local petrol station, plus another 5 mins at least to fill the car and pay (could easily be 10 if there's a queue but let's make it easy). So let's say 15 mins every 2 weeks for an ICE car

I reckon it takes 30 seconds to plug or unplug the car and stow the cable. Maybe twice that for an untethered charger

If I was plugging in every day (I am at the moment to try and divert as much solar as possible) that'd be 14 mins, so 1 minute quicker than an ICE on average

n.d.os · 18-05-2023 1:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612233#Comment_120612233

Haha. Love it. I'm currently trying to figure out the best way to charge from solar. My home battery appears to be filling twice a day so at the moment I'm topping up one of the cars midday and doing a night-time charge using the night rate and full battery after 11pm. I still used about 10kwh of battery during the night charging on of the cars. I've exported 5.42 kwh so far today and the battery is full since around midday.

What I will say is, I'm saving a fortune vs petrol but I do quite a lot of mileage. Someone with an ICE and a short commute might think it's not worth it.

cgorzy · 18-05-2023 1:30pm

I would say No ICE car is more convenient. You can go where you want without considering in advance where you refuel. Can fill up in a short time and drive further when full. It will handle unusual scenarios, that do sometimes happen, better too. The above is true for almost everyone no matter where they live.

I don’t think it makes ICE better than EV and think this should be a minor consideration for most people.

n.d.os · 18-05-2023 1:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612520#Comment_120612520

The big convenience drawback for me is not public chargers as I don't think many people use them anyway. Like i've said before, it's mostly and I use the word "mostly" cautiously, people working on the road or on their holidays.

I do worry sometimes if both of our EVs were out for the day and we arrived home with both cars very low on battery, that my wife might go into labor and we are stuck. Thank god the chances of this happening in my lifetime are 1000000/1

the_amazing_raisin · 18-05-2023 1:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612519#Comment_120612519

Most inverters will allow you to set a time to charge the battery from the grid. I've got mine set to charge to 40% from midnight to 3am and I'll do a timed boost on the Zappi at the same time so it doesn't drain the house battery

It covers any overnight charging I need at the moment and also means there's some useable power in the battery in case it's a cloudy day

Outside of that I just charge from excess using the Zappi during the day when I'm home

cgorzy · 18-05-2023 2:00pm

There is the question are EV’s more convenient and there is the question are EV’s more convenient for me? Generally, what I would consider the first question and also consider the question in the thread, I think the answer in no. If the only possible scenario where there is a need to travel outside range in a hurry is a 1000000/1 chance then it’s best not to worry about that at all and the answer may be Yes for me but can still be no in general.

Cyrus · 18-05-2023 2:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611797#Comment_120611797

so you are already stopping for coffee en route, in such a scenario why would using that time at a fast charger be a big inconvenience ?

Stevie2001 · 18-05-2023 2:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612549#Comment_120612549

Or the charger stopped working, electricity was out, storm etc

patmahe · 18-05-2023 2:48pm

The biggest thing holding me back from an electric car is the urgent situation scenario. I'll give you an example of someone I know (and he himself told me this story so its unlikely to be embellished).

He bought an electric car and after a period of a month or so his wife became ill and was in hospital about 50 miles away, she needed to have an operation and it was scheduled. On the day of her operation he was called and asked to bring her medication to the hospital, so he set off for the hospital and when he was half way there realised he'd left one of her medications at home so had to double back. At this point he was under time pressure so had no time to charge the vehicle so had to set off again immediately. He spent the journey worrying about whether the car would make it or not and he couldn't drive too quickly or the car's range would drop, if he didn't make it, his wife's operation could not go ahead. In the end he just about made it but had to charge the car before he could head home while his kids came home from school and then he went back again that evening when his wife came out of surgery, having to charge the car that day was a major hassle for him. (99% of the time it was a non-issue)

I've had a similar situation myself over the past year or so with a sick parent, where I might have to drop everything and go at a moment's notice. If I had an electric car, the anxiety if the car was charging from a low starting point would be tough to take.

Don't get me wrong I like electric cars, but on the day you need to be somewhere in a hurry, or the day you have to make an unexpected detour and 20-30 minutes charging a car is more time than you have is the day that worries me (I guess because I have lived with that reality). I'm sure range issues will be fixed and I am fortunate enough to have room for a charger and private parking at home but these aren't options for everyone. I'm also aware that what I'm talking about here is an edge case, but on the day it matters, it might really matter.

I reckon I'm about 5 years out from switching to fully electric (its getting there but its not quite there yet for me).

EV's. More convenient than ICE cars?

Comments