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Ukraine (Mod Note & Threadbanned Users in OP)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,418 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Another zinger from Darth Putin

    Russia's "red line" was not Ukraine joining NATO. Russia's red line was having to be a better option to Ukraine than NATO is.


    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,444 ✭✭✭jmreire


    And to prove it to Ukraine, they planned to destroy it 100%...... Putin logic OK !!!



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Moldova finally announced plans to leave the CIS (commonwealth of independent states) this will leave only Belarus, Armenia ,Azerbaijan ,Kazakhstan,Kyrgyzstan,Tajikistan,Uzbekistan and of course Russia , currently Armenia and Azerbaijan are currently fighting a low level conflict too ,







  • Registered Users Posts: 29,418 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    What on earth took them so long... it's not like Transnistria is a new development. I guess maybe trying to play both sides.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,578 ✭✭✭Field east


    Would it not have been the case of picking an appropriate time to leave. Eg when the RU army is fully occupied / at a very weak point / high possibility of getting western assistance if invaded



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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,418 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Fair point. I forgot to add factor in the Russian abuse of language and truth where Indepedent States means dont do anything Independent.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,660 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Moldova have a few choices but need to be careful because Putin has a few rockets that could reach them.

    1. They could reunite with Rumania. Not sure how that would be accepted by either country, but it would make them members of NATO.
    2. They could apply to join NATO. Again would NATO accept them given the Transnistria issue.
    3. Try to remove Russian forces from Transnistria. They would need help from someone, but who?

    Not easy.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,324 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    On merging, I vaguely recall polling on this and while I think Moldovans broadly support the idea, Romanians not so much if it meant more taxes or any negative effect on the Romanian economy - which might be unavoidable given Moldova's a much poorer region IIRC. Again, it's a vague recolleciton so would have to dig out the polls.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,491 ✭✭✭swiwi_


    Yip they’d need to think things through before taking a decision, make sure everything is mulled over so to speak.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,923 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Just to address this type of view. Putin is banking heavily on the West/world losing interest in the conflict and Ukraine gradually losing support. No one is more aware of this than the premier of Ukraine, who has the responsibility of keeping attention and an international spotlight on the conflict. To keep dialogue and agreements flowing with allies. To make appearances and keep reminding the world of the on-going war, atrocities and what is happening in Ukraine. His schedule is utterly exhausting and he's been doing it nonstop since Feb last year.

    Some individuals have confused that with the man "wanting media attention" which is of course nonsense.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    I honestly didn't think it still existed , Russia invaded it's fellow CIS neighbor Ukraine, Moldova is partially occupied by Russians, Azerbaijanis are fighting the Armenias for the last few months,and yet the CIS still exists,

    It's like Nato except the number one rule seems to be invasion and occupation of a neighbor is part of the membership requirement,

    Moldova are pretty much poor,they have no real military capable of standing up to aggression of any kind, especially not putin over the last 20 years, Georgia is in a similar boat, part of their sovereign territory is occupied by Russians,and every few years the Russian military arrives at the new border fence backed up with tanks and gunships and Physically moves the border fences between south Ossetia and Georgia future into Georgian territory, with the thread try to stop us and we attack,this coming from a country who were previously considered a prime candidate to join Nato,



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Remember when it was suggested Ukraine should invade transistria themselves this removing the threat of attacks coming from there and helping the Moldovans who are pretty helpless when it comes to theirs own defense



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,324 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Without Zelensky directly confronting foreign leaders, openly calling into question the speed and volume of their support, Ukraine would have fallen in mid-2022. It's as simple as that. The Ukrainian spirit & morale has done much of the work, but that there's even a chance they might push Russia back is because the diplomatic game was played, the end-result being superior equipment.

    Ukraine isn't currently "enjoying" Leopard tanks, Patriot missile systems, drones, intelligence and - perhaps - F-16 fighters etc. etc. because Europe and America were feeling generous. To try and cast Zelensky as fame-hungry is both reductive, and frankly pretty asinine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,578 ✭✭✭Field east


    “Cometh the the time has cometh the man” . So says the quote or something along those lines. He is playing an absolute blinder - day and night. I hope that he can keep it up. He must be an extremely strong character- both mentally and physically. He has not put a foot wrong to date given the circumstances that he is presented with each hour not to say each day.

    Out of a top score of 10 , I would give him at least 15



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,304 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    I'd disagree that he's never put his foot wrong; he's been wrong on some occasions such as the missile parts landing in Poland, been told behind closed doors to done certain things down by USA etc. But on a holistic level I'd agree he's without a doubt world class ín his job (esp. as he can't stay bland and boring to avoid doing something wrong). The fact he's had some very senior people arrested for bribes as well shows he's working not only on the here and now war but setting things up for turning Ukraine fully to the west by fighting corruption during the war as well. Keeping in mind he can only sit for two terms as president (next election due in 2024 and I can't see him being voted out currently) I expect him to either become the PM or more likely retire to focus on his family / speaker tours ala Boris etc.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,324 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    The attacks on corruption (that tired canard beloved of the contrarians) show as you say some long-term thinking. He has been quite vocal throughout the war about EU membership - far more vocal than NATO membership at that, presumably knowing that'd truly cause ructions in Moscow. He knows full well the first thing asked of Ukraine by Brussels will be to sort their house out WRT corruption. On EU Accession in general, I think Zelensky has shown a little petulance or impatience: but then it's debatable whether like his jet-setting, it's just theatre to keep Ukraine in the mix.

    Accession takes decades and his chatter about EU Membership as something to be fast-tracked just doesn't chime with reality. Mind you, I think it was suggested the last time I mentioned this, it was less about appealing to us, than noting to Ukrainians what they might be fighting for in the long-term.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,923 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    The usual propaganda and monotonous stuff to unpick here.

    Much of his wealth is tied to his acting career. His Italian property has reportedly been sold and the story of it currently being rented to Russians is.. Russian propaganda.

    You are back to your "Ukraine is corrupt" spiel. It's an ex-Soviet satellite state, the leader they ousted, Russian-back Yanukovych was as crooked as they come, hence they want to steer away from that, away from Russia and move towards the EU, which is why they've been making efforts to fight corruption. Even during war-time, ministers, deputies, businessmen and officials have come under scrutiny, there's been firings, resignations and investigations.

    You've been in this thread previously ranting about Zelensky being "corrupt" and "hypocritical" for not cutting all Russian gas flowing to European countries, this is part of the same low-brow attack, coincidentally in line with your Clare Daly-esque views of the conflict.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,578 ✭✭✭Field east


    I should have mentioned that he must have an extremely loyal , smart and very hard working team around him to assist him not to mention those in the field and most especially those on the front line who are doing the VERY HEAVY LIFTING.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,240 ✭✭✭monseiur


    I never said his property in Italy is currently rented to Russians. The fact is that his mansion was rented to a Russian oligarch for the month of August and she paid €50,000 for the privilege. When this fact became public knowledge ( a major embarrassment) Zelenskyy transferred the property and perhaps others to his wife (or to companies controlled by her) Just because it happens to be the truth does not mean it's Russian propaganda...believe it or not some of us can differentiate between the two.

    What he does with his properties is his business but it's rather hypocritical of him to be demanding that European countries and others ban Russian visitors and confiscate their assets.

    If he had an ounce of decency, empathy or benevolence in his being he would allow some refugees from his country stay in this mansion for a nominal sum or even for free. The optics alone would benefit him, but greed and his insatiable desire for wealth trumps everything else. After all he's a multi millionaire - a wealth of dubious origin - hundreds of decent people here and elsewhere in Europe welcomed Ukrainian refugees into their homes or properties - most if not all are ordinary folk getting by on a weekly wage or in some cases a pension.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,444 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Not mention being motivated. When they are coming to kill you, it keeps you focused, and everyone willingly on the same page. Putin enjoys no such loyalty, Fear is his only motivating force and powerful as it is, it will be his downfall too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,923 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    The fact is that his mansion was rented to a Russian oligarch for the month of August and she paid €50,000 for the privilege.

    Is a non-story from a Italian paper based on talking to a few locals. It's believed the property, belongs (or belonged) to Zelensky's wife and later determined that the renter was Estonian.

    People are being blown to pieces and this is what you are "concerned" about.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,324 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Because ultimately, this is all the contrarians have at this stage. No other argument holds credible water so repeatedly we're now down to personal attacks on Zelensky - because it's easier to decry "corruption" and the potential of an imperfect leader than actually observe and despair at Russia trying to invade a country and indiscriminately attack civilians.

    It's just standard, petty attacks on any public figure a bit too feted for their liking; bringing them down a peg or too etc. etc. Adds nothing to the existential problem Ukraine are currently facing mind you. I suppose were Boards around during WW2 - why hello, Godwin - these same people would be tutting and wailing about what a total lush and bully Churchill was.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    While we rever Volodymyr Zelenskyy he wasn't always that popular in Ukraine, even now you can find posts on social media accounts from people fighting in Ukraine saying that they would vote against him In the next elections, and the country has come along way since 2014 not just under Zelensky either but there's still a hell of a lot that needs to be done whenever this war stops , great wartime leaders don't always make great peace time leaders



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,240 ✭✭✭monseiur


    It's obvious that certain other folk other than Zelenskyy are sore the he was 'caught in the act' The fact is that lady who rented the mansion was a Russian oligarch - if the Zelenskyy's had an iota of compassion, care or patriotism in their DNA the house would not be available to rent, it would be occupied by Ukrainian refugees...it's not that he needed the money after all he's a multimillionaire, or perhaps that's Russian propaganda too ! That is the whole point of the argument, it has nothing whatsoever to do with the rights or wrongs of the war...but some folk can't see the wood from the trees.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,578 ✭✭✭Field east


    By what measuring proceedure are you ,Gatling,to measure Zalenskys popularity in The UKr. And if the exact same proceedure was used in Russia how do you think Putin would fare ? . I get a bit irked when someone comes along in Boards and say how corrupt UKr is without giving context or comparing how corrupt Russia is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,418 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    One of the reasons he might be unpopular in certain quarters is clamping down on corruption... I expect it upsets a few vested interests.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Zelensky wasn't always a popular figure in Ukraine, I've never said anything bad about him or Anything to do with villas, I've been to ukraine pre 2014 and there was corruption but thats absolutely normal for former Soviet states , I've been following the Ukrainan story for a long time especially here on boards so it's not as if I don't know anything about ukraine or anything that's going on in Ukraine,

    There has been huge strides made against corruption in Ukraine since 2014 , everything from local government to law enforcement,but there's still more to do ,

    All I said was not everyone is happy with Zelensky and what he's doing in Ukraine pre invasion,his most difficult job will be when this war eventually ends the rebuilding will have to be managed along with all the major political players including the orthodox church,

    That's going to be a difficult task as well as having the EU looking over his shoulder and the books



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,923 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    No, it's now been reported as an Estonian.

    When Russia invaded, every analysis had Ukraine capitulating in a week or two. Many world leaders would have fled, Zelensky didn't. Many would have relocated to a safer part of the country, Zelensky didn't. He stayed in the capital, even with Russian forces on the outskirts, even with multiple assassination attempts, he stayed there, living in his office, making round-the-clock broadcasts reassuring Ukrainians. Polls show he has around 95% support among Ukrainians. He has pressured world leaders non-stop, he has visited troops, he has made dangerous front-line visits. Day-in, day-out he's kept the world spotlight on the conflict. He's pretty much done everything and more that could be done of a leader during war-time.

    No one is above criticism, but your views are similar in barrel-scraping pettiness to what we hear daily from the Kremlin.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,970 ✭✭✭Christy42


    The UK got rid of Churchill right after ww2. Similarly that will be the Ukrainians decision after the war. I would be distrustful if he didn't have detractors before the war though, what leader doesn't (without violently silencing the opposition).


    For the war itself he is playing a blinder and the war has yet to be fully won.



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