2022-23 UEFA Champions League

By the definition of financial doping aren't a lot of top European teams doing this and not just City?

Stolen from Google.

Doesn't make it right of course but I'm not sure if many of the top teams are in a position to moral grandstand on the issue

I don't think any one could deny that Pep is brilliant at what he does, the issue is that he has consistently played with loaded dice. At Barca he had the GOAT player and GOAT club team at his disposal. At Munich they were and continue to be the most dominant team in Germany. At City he has had innumerable amounts of money to spend and can literally keep buying players for tens of millions until they fit, there is no pressure on him to stick within financial constraints. For my money he's not at the same level as the likes of Klopp.

That's a really odd take on Grealish... he wasn't just some random english fella they brought in to meet a quota, he's a bloody brilliant player most teams would absolutely love to have, but most teams couldn't afford. He's definitely more of a wild card player than Pep usually goes for, so fair play to Pep for making him a bit more of a system player (though I think you're over-egging how big a transformation that is - getting a gifted player used to a new system over the course of a year isn't exactly miraculous stuff...). "My very expensive, brilliantly talented footballer isn't instantly better than all my other very expensive brilliantly talented footballers" is quite a 'first world problem' sort of thing 😅. And sure isn't it lovely for them that they had all these other brilliant players to win the league while getting their new lad acclimated.

Also, he was really bloody good in that Madrid game when he came on in - wasn't at fault for any of the three goals they conceded, and almost put the game to bed twice - once with a brilliant run and square ball that got cleared off the line by some incredible defending a hair before it was poked in, and then again after another great bit of skill to get a shot away that Courtois did incredibly well to get half a toe on to push just barely wide. That game was definitely not an example of him being a problem.

(when you say he nearly single handedly put them out, I think you're just mistaken or confused or something - he didn't give the ball away for any of those 3 goals. The first, Madrid had the ball for many phases before they scored <including throws etc>, for the second it's Cancelo who gives it away playing a ball up the line to no-one, and for the pen it's Fodan who initially gives it away and of course Dias who gives away the pen. Like, sure, Grealish's general defensive closing down could probably be better, but he didn't give away the ball for any of those.)

You're gonna be have to be more specific than that... i'll be honest with ya, i just went and watched the last 10 minutes (a bloody great 10 mins of football!), and i've no idea what you're talking about.

In the 86th minute, he almost gets a 2nd for City. A minute later he again almost closes it out. Both brilliant bits of play, only stopped through brilliant bits of last ditch defending by Madrid. He next gets the ball under pressure at the touchline and concedes a throw-in up by the halfway line. And that's it. He doesn't get the ball again before the end of normal time when Madrid are then 2-1 up. There's a moment where Bernardo Silva gives away the ball in the middle of the park that's far far worse - he's number 20 so maybe you misread that as 10 or something instead? Cause honestly I've no idea what you're talking about, I'm just not seeing this big dramatic game changing unforced error.

Honestly, rewatching it now, Grealish looks the only City player who might actually make something happen.

Their point seems fairly clear (and they're a Utd fan, so i doubt there's a Liverpool bias there 😅). Pep has only had success with money. Others have had success with less money. Therefore maybe some people will see those other successes as carrying a slightly higher weight. No-one is saying Pep is bad, he's obviously an incredibly talented manager. Maybe Pep could also succeed with lesser resources, but he's never done it so we can't say.

The fact some other clubs have spent huge money without succeeding is also moot to the comparison being made - it's already accepted that Pep has done impressive things.

Oh I'm biased towards them alright chief 🤣🤣🤣

I'm basing my opinion on what both managers have achieved and the circumstances they worked under.

Pep at Barca inherited a team with footballing icons like Messi, Iniesta, Puyol and Xavi entering their prime and was also able to bring in brilliant players like Zlatan, Fabregas, Mascherano and Villa.

At Bayern he took over a team that had just won the treble the season before and cherry pick brilliant players like Lewa, Kimmich and Goetze from league rivals as well as brilliant imports like Vidal or Thiago.

At City he inherited a multiple title winning squad and was able to bring in nearly 50 new players in his 7 year stint due to the untold riches at his disposal.

Klopp on the other hand had a relatively meagre budget at BD and won two titles, the only 2 titles that Munich have not won since 2010.

He took over a Liverpool team that had by and large been also rans, built a team to win a league and come within a fanny hair of winning a couple more, as well as a CL and a couple of domestic trophies. Obviously money has been spent by him but budgetary constraints are very clearly in place.

PG has never done what JK has done, that is build a team from scratch that is good enough to go head to head with and beat the existing juggernaut. On that basis I rate JK higher.

I don't think Pep would have gotten Liverpool from where they were to winning everything like they did.

I do think Klopp could have won as many PLs and cups as Pep did at City given everything at the managers disposal there. I'd also wager that he'd have gotten a CL much sooner.

Both are top tier managers but take on different roles.

Absolutely and for the avoidance of doubt I'm not saying PG is a "bad" manager but his MO and JKs MO are vastly different.

Not rowing back at all hoss, if you are more comfortable with it, I think JK is a higher level than PG for the reasons I outlined above so would you be so kind as to provide reasons why you think I'm incorrect.👍

That's not a reason hoss. It's an unqualified opinion, he has won trophies obviously but he has ALWAYS had massive advantages vs any of his league rivals. The teams he has left also continued to win things after his departure.

lol, my issue wasn't criticism of Grealish, it was you inventing an incident which never happened. As has since been established.

How do you spot the Man City fan?

Its the lad who constantly defends Man City at every opportunity, even if he pretends he isn't.

Juve will be deducted points, Milan will get top 4.

The only sensible thing you say, is they defended well over two legs v Napoli. Only for a Pioli calamity, they would of dug in and applied the same tactics. Pioli, for some unknown reason, had them go on the offensive in the first game. Big mistake.

Everything Milan did to get this far in the competition, Pioli sent them out to do the opposite in the first leg. As a betting man, that can't be accounted for.

He applied huge pressure on Saelemaekers in the first leg, moving him into the centre as opposed to the left wing, with no plan behind him, hammering his confidence.

Saelemaekers a true 10, and Diaz should of been on the right from the get go, Diaz couldn't handle the physical stuff from the Inter midfield, Saelemaekers up to the task on that front.

Their plan and system was completely mismanaged, and when Saelemaekers was touted as a starter in the second leg, in his true position, I was delighted. But alas, left on the bench.

When I say he applied pressure on Saelemaekers in the first leg in the middle, he started him on the left with no plan when he drifted in. Give Saelemaekers structure from behind and he'll create.

You knew the game was up when Saelemaekers wasn't the first sub, the guy needed to be on the field

You look at Pioli and he's hated by as many as he's loved, after the weekend, hated even more, by the fans and players. He'll be sacked, but as I said, Milan have a buy in the way other teams don't.

People can laugh and quote me on this in years to come, but Milan are on the cusp of greatness again. Players who aren't in it completely for the money, are seeing what's happening with Milan, and the complete buy in of players already there, want to be part of it.

Word is starting to reach the footballing masses that Milan is the club of the people, and many players want a part of it. Those there already, refuse to leave!

The ethos of the club, is now one of the people, the opposite direction most clubs are going.

God that's right, totally forgot about that - mad to think of a Pep City team finishing behind Spurs!

Hang on, we're supposed to believe 'TheCitizen', who posts about Man City constantly, doesn't support Man City?

Ah yes. So when he didn't have the deck completely stacked in his favour, with 15 or 16 world beaters in his squad, he finished in his lowest ever league position.