Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

brianc89 · 18-05-2023 5:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613417#Comment_120613417

You'd shorten the journey by about 12-15km by your suggestion. That's hardly worth the investment given trains could run at 80kmh (easily) between Tuam and Athenry.

There is only one historical station between Tuam and Athenry (Ballyglunin).

A journey time of sub 40minutes from Tuam to Galway, via Athenry, is possible, which compares to 50minutes by bus or 1hr+ in a car.

A new station at Roscam could connect to buses to industrial estates. Don't use the industrial estates argument here - it's the reason Galway hasn't invested in public transport forever and is now choked with cars.

end of the road · 18-05-2023 6:31pm

i'm not amazed at all, people often take trains instead of buses for many reasons.

apparently it has been shown that passenger numbers on the galway to limerick route are healthy with trains often full, but not being around that part of the country, obviously i can't verify that for myself.

and chances are the bus in real world conditions isn't always as fast as claimed, especially when going in and out of each of the cities, but again i'm not in a position to verify that, but it would make some sense for it to be the case.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612924#Comment_120612924

end of the road · 18-05-2023 6:38pm

i don't think it will be the case that every single stop will be reopened if galway to mayo is reopened, only the bigger stops like tuam and a couple of others perhapse.

not everyone is going to the business parks outside the city so there will be numbers for the line, sure going via athenry and reversing is not optimal but it's not the big deal it would have been when trains were hauled by a loco which had to run round and all of the stuff that goes with that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613417#Comment_120613417

brianc89 · 18-05-2023 7:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613688#Comment_120613688

No reversing required. The Tuam line comes into Athenry from the Dublin side. Realistically, it could make sense to have a Gort to Tuam commuter, or something similar, with a <5minute connection to a Galway train at Athenry. This would eliminate the need for Gort / Ennis trains to reverse direction.

18-05-2023 7:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613452#Comment_120613452

Data says no

Source - National Rail Census 2019, graph is my own

Next most recent census was 2021 and I haven't used that for obvious (covid) reasons. I also pulled in earlier figures (2012) from an earlier census. There do not appear to be usage figures prior to that for any lines

Note, up until 2017 a lot of the Galway-Dublin services didn't stop at Oranmore, once that changed you see the big jump but as that was on the main line service it wouldn't count anyway if we're talking about the WRC

So, next time you see a headline saying something like "OMG, passenger numbers have grown by 300% in Ardrahan", just realise you're talking about a jump from 3 to 12 passengers......for the full day.....in both directions.

So in summary, ridership has remained flat at Sixmilebridge, Gort, Ardrahan & Craughwell, its falling in Ennis and its up in Oranmore which benefits from main line numbers

A rip roaring success it ain't

Hotblack Desiato · 18-05-2023 10:42pm

"trains are full" what is the capacity of the trains in question?

L1011 · 18-05-2023 10:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120614604#Comment_120614604

Mostly 3 car 22ks aren't they?

190 if every seat is full. But I've seen trains with barely above 50% considered "full" cause nobody wants to sit beside someone / even share a 4 bay with someone.

marno21 · 19-05-2023 3:26am

Is there any potential for a motorway connected P&R somewhere near the Rathmorrissey interchange? Journey times to Galway City Centre from there are quite competitive and the journey from there to the homes of east Galway can be done by car

brianc89 · 19-05-2023 8:40am

These pics don't surprise me but they are still shocking. We wonder why we've a housing crisis. Government and councils won't allow one off housing, anymore, and yet there is no encouragement to build in villages especially ones on a flipping rail line....

Gort:

Screenshot_2023-05-19-08-36-34-21_3d9111e2d3171bf4882369f490c087b4.jpg

Craughwell:

Screenshot_2023-05-19-08-35-04-49_3d9111e2d3171bf4882369f490c087b4.jpg

Ardrahan:

Screenshot_2023-05-19-08-35-55-76_3d9111e2d3171bf4882369f490c087b4.jpg

19-05-2023 9:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120615196#Comment_120615196

I can't speak to those locations, but I know that the Oranmore station location was chosen specifically because of the empty fields around it and there are plans for high density developments to go in there.

The same would appear to be true for the locations you pictured. Only issue is, again, a poor service is not going to be an enticement to anyone to live there or commute by train from there. High density developments always follow the provision of a high quality service. You can see this on the luas lines, London tubes/tram lines etc.

brianc89 · 19-05-2023 10:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120615391#Comment_120615391

How long is Oranmore station open?.... I think the point here is a complete failure of government and local council policy, not the quality of the rail service.

Screenshot_2023-05-19-10-10-19-10_3d9111e2d3171bf4882369f490c087b4.jpg

19-05-2023 10:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120615524#Comment_120615524

It opened in 2013 afaik and it wasn't until 2017 I think that all services stopped there (30-40% of the main line services didn't).

As to why there is not high density housing built yet I couldn't tell you but I will add that until the proper level of services are setup in the area, (footpaths, bike lanes, bus stops (and maybe lanes), dual tracking) nothing should be built as it will only lead to more car use.

ABP are coming down hard on councils across the country in this regard now and no longer allow for building in sites such as this where there is no integration into wider sustainable mobility networks. The city and county councils have had about a dozen planning permissions shot down in the last year alone for this one issue.

So yeah, there should be a blast of high density housing there, but the area needs to be ready for people from day 1. Until that happens, there should not be a single block laid as it would be 100% counter productive

Hotblack Desiato · 19-05-2023 12:00pm

Those pictures are good examples of how badly located many railway stations are.

19-05-2023 12:14pm

A piece on a recent meeting between Sligo councillor Marie Casserly and Eamon Ryan

19-05-2023 12:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120615934#Comment_120615934

In what way?

Hotblack Desiato · 19-05-2023 1:38pm

Outside towns not in them.

Hotblack Desiato · 19-05-2023 2:42pm

Just how thick are these people?

So the electric train gets as far as Maynooth. What happens then? Nothing, unless many many millions are spent of course.

Also you are not going to run a fast inter-city service on 1500V DC...

ohographite · 19-05-2023 4:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613849#Comment_120613849

The amount of people using the stations between Limerick and Galway might have remained nearly the same since 2012, but maybe the amount of people travelling from Limerick all the way to Galway, or vice versa, who wouldn't be using any intermediate stations, has increased during that time. The amount of people using the reopened railway between Ennis and Athenry definitely seems to have increased since 2012, so it could be that this increase is almost completely made up of people travelling the whole way from Limerick to Galway. Here is an article written in 2018 from the Irish Times which says "The number of passengers on the Ennis to Athenry Route was up almost 100,000 between 2011 and 2017 to 134,000 from 34,000 per annum." https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/passenger-traffic-on-limerick-galway-rail-line-up-57-in-seven-years-1.3624503

ohographite · 19-05-2023 4:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120615985#Comment_120615985

The article talks about Ardrahan station and says it's typically used by 14 people a day, which is probably true, but Ardrahan station is just one station on the Limerick to Galway railway, and is used by a very small amount of people compared to the total amount of people who use the service, or even just the amount of people using the reopened section of the railway. It's misleading to only talk about the small amount of people using just one station on a railway in an effort to claim the railway is used by a small amount of people. The fact that the article only mentions Ardrahan station makes it sound like it's the only station on the railway, and hence used by everyone who ever uses the railway, which isn't true.

Another statement in the article that isn't true either is that "Ardrahan station has 20 daily services" since it only has 10 a day according to the Irish rail timetable(5 to Galway, 4 to Limerick and 1 to Ennis).

19-05-2023 5:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120617257#Comment_120617257

So 3 things

First

The amount of people using the reopened railway between Ennis and Athenry definitely seems to have increased since 2012

"Seems" is nice, but show the data. Scroll up the page and you'll see the data shows the nothing like you claim. If you have alternative data by all means please share, the more the better

Second, comparing the numbers from the first year of running to year 6 is an exceptional exercise in deception. That West on Track are linked to in that article does not surprise me one bit, dishonesty is their MO

Third, the amount of work IE have had to do to try make that line work is ridiculous and includes free parking, massively reduced fares, huge subvention, a crazy amount of follow-up engineering works and so on.

That it's still barely used and has zero signs of growth based on the census figures shows it was a massive waste.

On that basis I see zero justification, beyond emotional, for WRC phase 2, at least not before main line services are all double tracked, electrified, high frequency (min 1 hr), expanded schedules etc

Phase 1 was launched on a line that was barely functional, with a service that was neither appealing or useful for many and a journey time that was and still is, a farce.

ohographite · 19-05-2023 10:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120617441#Comment_120617441

I had a look at the data you shared, and it only shows that the usage of the stations between Limerick and Galway hasn't increased between 2012 and 2019, but it doesn't show the amount of people who travelled the whole way to/from Limerick from/to Galway, which could've increased over that period. I have already pointed this out in my previous post.

I accept that merely showing that the railway was busier in 2017 than it was in 2011 doesn't necessarily mean that it has remained as busy as it was in 2017 to this day, but I have found data that suggests it was busier in 2018 and 2019. Here it is:http://www.railusers.ie/news/news.php?year=2020&no=2.html

They say that they got these numbers from Irish Rail, so if that's the case, they're almost certainly accurate.

There are train stations all over Ireland where you can park your car for free, so the section of railway from Ennis to Athenry isn't unusual from that point of view. For example, Kilcoole Station has free parking:https://www.irishrail.ie/en-ie/travel-information/find-a-station?key=Kilcoole&REQ0JourneyStopskeyID=A%3D1%40O%3DKilcoole%40X%3D-6041120%40Y%3D53106967%40U%3D80%40L%3D6010030%40B%3D1%40p%3D1684512361%40&HWAI%3DJS%21js=yes&HWAI%3DJS%21ajax=yes

So does Foxford: https://www.irishrail.ie/en-ie/travel-information/find-a-station?key=Foxford&REQ0JourneyStopskeyID=A%3D1%40O%3DFoxford%40X%3D-9136429%40Y%3D53982938%40U%3D80%40L%3D6000046%40B%3D1%40p%3D1684512361%40&HWAI%3DJS%21js=yes&HWAI%3DJS%21ajax=yes

There are more stations with free parking, too. If you want me to post the entire list, I will.

20-05-2023 8:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120618496#Comment_120618496

That's a fair point as regards the parking

As for the numbers from the rail users site, the numbers cover Ennis-Athenry only and no source data is provided. Not saying it's made up but without the source data it's difficult to put much stock in that table of figures

ohographite · 22-05-2023 3:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120619062#Comment_120619062

I don't see why the fact that the numbers only cover Ennis-Athenry is a problem, considering that is the section of railway that was reopened.

I had a look at the daily boardings and alightings in the National Transport Authority Heavy Rail Censuses for 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019 to see if there were any statistics that suggested an increase in the usage of the reopened section of railway(Ennis to Athenry) over that time, and here is what I found:

In Limerick, the daily boardings heading in the direction of Galway and the alightings coming from the direction of Galway stayed mostly the same(showing no significant increase or decrease) from 2015 to 2019, but as the graph in post #4656 shows, the number of people using Ennis station decreased and the number of people using Sixmilebridge station stayed almost the same during that time. So, if the amount of people travelling from Limerick to Ennis went down, and the number of people travelling on the railway north of Limerick didn't, that suggests that there was an increase in the number of people travelling from Limerick to locations north of Ennis, which would require use of the reopened Ennis-Athenry section.

Here are the Daily Passenger movements in Limerick for each year from 2015 to 2019. The numbers shown are a combination of the Regional Northbound boardings and Regional Southbound alightings:

2015: 547

2016: 554

2017: 436

2018: 560

2019: 593

22-05-2023 4:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627521#Comment_120627521

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree as there's no good source to say for definite one way or the other as IE don't release that level of data

Ideally you'd want figures for the WRC service only, for all stops. As IE give numbers on stops only, but not by service, it muddys the waters somewhat. Even the numbers for services, that might be of some use, are bundled together (WRC + others) so without concrete figures you can make your best guess and I can make mine. To be clear I'm saying you are wrong, just there is not a good enough source of data

On a side note, your numbers for Limerick 2015-2019, where did you take them from, I'm probably missing something obvious, but I can't see those figures in the census

ohographite · 22-05-2023 4:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627740#Comment_120627740

I looked at the Daily Regional Northbound boardings and Regional Southbound alightings in Limerick each Heavy Rail Census from 2015 to 2019, and added them together to present the numbers I gave in my previous post. That was where I got the numbers from.

22-05-2023 4:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627766#Comment_120627766

Honestly, not being picky, but I can't see where those are coming from. Can you give me a page or table ref #? I just can't see totals for Limerick that add up to your figures. Apologies maybe its staring me in the face and I'm just blind

Do they also include the numbers going to Limerick Junction? What about the Limerick-Waterford route?

As best as I could tell, the WRC plus those are lumped together

ohographite · 22-05-2023 11:32pm

I'm pretty much certain the figure I gave doesn't count the people travelling only from Limerick to Limerick Junction, or on the Limerick Junction to Waterford line either. I'm guessing that on the table showing daily boardings, the people who board a train at Limerick and travel towards Galway are counted in the "Regional Northbound" column, since Galway is north of Limerick, and then I would say the people who board a train in Limerick and travel towards Limerick Junction are counted in the "Regional Southbound" column. Then, I would say that on the table showing daily alightings, it's vice versa, so the people who get off a train at Limerick coming from the Galway direction are counted in the "Regional Southbound" column and the people who get off a train coming from the Limerick Junction direction are counted in the "Regional Northbound" column.

Here is a screenshot of the census showing 2018 passenger numbers, showing daily alightings, and I have circled (in red) the figure I took to mean the number of people who got off a train in Limerick that was coming from the direction of Galway.

ohographite · 22-05-2023 11:54pm

Here are some news articles which say that the number of people using the reopened section of railway from Ennis to Athenry has increased since 2011 (its first full year in operation).

This 2015 Irish Times article says that the number of people who used it was "just over 34,000 in 2011 and 2012. It fell to a dismal 28,473 in 2013." Then, it says that "With more modern stock, Iarnród Éireann also offered online fares and an ongoing promotional €5.99 fare. It transformed the figures. On the Athenry to Ennis section, passenger numbers were a staggering 78 per cent up until November 2014 compared to the comparable period 2013, from 23,000 to 41,000." So those are the numbers in 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014. I don't see any reason to believe these aren't correct.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/train-of-thought-what-next-for-the-western-rail-corridor-1.2056514

Here is a 2016 article from the Irish Independent says that "the new Athenry to Ennis section (Phase One) of the Western Rail Corridor carried 102,000 passengers in 2015." https://www.independent.ie/regionals/sligo/localnotes/new-report-gives-hope-for-re-opening-rail-link/35138087.html

I couldn't find any article with any figure for the amount of people using it in 2016.

Here is the article I posted before, in the Irish Times in 2018, which said "The number of passengers on the Ennis to Athenry Route was up almost 100,000 between 2011 and 2017 to 134,000 from 34,000 per annum." It gives 34, 000 as the 2011 figure, just like the previous Irish Times article did. https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/passenger-traffic-on-limerick-galway-rail-line-up-57-in-seven-years-1.3624503

Pete_Cavan · 23-05-2023 6:58am

Calls for high density housing in rural villages are nonsense. There are far better opportunities for densification in Galway and Limerick, and to a lesser extent Ennis, which would be cheaper, more sustainable and yield better results. Of course the population should be increased around the stations but the scope is fairly limited. You could potentially develop a new town at Ardrahan around the station as there isn't much there now.

The only way I can see for the southern part of WRC to compete would be to branch off at Ardrahan and join the existing mainline east of Oranmore. That would be 15km shorter than current route, can be designed for higher speeds and avoids the messing in Athenry. Leaving it as it is and reopening the line to Tuam would create an operational mess with all the crossing involved and likely would mean a deterioration in existing services.

23-05-2023 9:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120629589#Comment_120629589

Yeah this is kinda what I was talking about, you have to be careful with those IE figures in the census. For example, Galway, has the following figures

The first 2 are for the Dublin service and make total sense, 0 being the service leaving Galway so there would be no boardings with 1563 being the figure for the service arriving in Galway so the boardings figure makes total sense. Now, if you look at the other figures on the right, those are for the WRC and make no sense if you apply the same logic

This is what I'm talking about when I say to be careful with the IE figures in that census.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120629641#Comment_120629641

I'm sorry, but those are still woeful numbers. You are talking about a years worth of numbers for that line being the equivalent of a few weeks on some other lines. As an example, the main line carries over 2 million a year.

This is exactly why I am saying the main line needs to get the investment first. It is madness to suggest extending the WRC to carry a few thousand more passengers while maintaining and even worsening the journeys of millions on the main line.

Extend the WRC all you want, no issue with that, my point is the main line needs to be double tracked first as anything done after that will have a far greater usage rate because of the additional capacity.

Doing it the other way around makes zero sense unless the objective is to make rail a worse choice for a greater number of people

brianc89 · 23-05-2023 9:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630154#Comment_120630154

Here, it's very easy to say " I'm supportive of WRC provided mainline improvements are a prerequisite".

Instead you seem to be making a very substantial effort to oppose it.

Facts remain are:

• Tuam is Galway's largest town and should be connected to rail

• A sub 40minute journey time to Galway city is possible which is faster than bus / car.

• Tourists like trains. Tourists bring in lots of money.

• Trains are greener than cars. People like trains. Not all train services in the world are financially viable.

Supportive or not like?

23-05-2023 11:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630265#Comment_120630265

Think I already stated my position in the post you quoted when I said

Extend the WRC all you want, no issue with that, my point is the main line needs to be double tracked first as anything done after that will have a far greater usage rate because of the additional capacity.

Doing it the other way around makes zero sense unless the objective is to make rail a worse choice for a greater number of people

I have no argument with your points, my position is pretty clear, the main line should be double tracked to Athenry first, before WRC phase 2 happens otherwise there will be a decrease in the capacity on the main line so you'll end up with a crappier service all for what..... so the WRC phase 2 could open a few years earlier.

As an example, the WRC phase 1 has 5 services each way a day. Honestly, as a service between 2 of the biggest cities in the country, thats pretty crap. It should be a service every 30 mins and should only take 60 mins.

What should have been done was a new dual track line, with no level crossings, what we got was a single line with a stupid amount of level crossings which will impact line speeds for DECADES to come.

You need to be aspiring to better infrastructure

Where I discussed pax numbers was in relation to benefit to end users. 100 million spent on the main line will provide a better service to millions of people. 100 million spent on WRC phase 2 will provide a better service to maybe 50k people if you're lucky and will delay improvements to the main line.

As far as I can see there is no logical argument that can be made for prioritising a spend on the WRC phase 2 over the main line.

We'll have to wait and see, but my guess is the rail review will come to the same conclusion

Geuze · 23-05-2023 11:53am

I agree 100% with improving the mainline first.

Double-tracking from GY to Athenry helps all users: current, future, Dublin, long-distance, commuters, everybody.

Here is my proposal, I welcome criticism:

double-track, leaving provision for future elec
eliminate all LC - I think there are five? The Oranmore LC would be tricky.
new station at Roscam
new station at Renmore, Ballyloughnane road

brianc89 · 23-05-2023 12:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630688#Comment_120630688

But this is my point, no one here is suggesting we prioritise WRC phase 2 instead of mainline upgrades.

There is a fixation on this point, at the expense of proper discussion regarding WRC phase 2.

serfboard · 23-05-2023 3:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630918#Comment_120630918

To me, a proper discussion of train infrastructure requirements would place WRC phase 2 so far down the the priority list as to render any further discussion on it moot.

The only question is whether such a proper discussion would ever take place - after all we spent over 100 million building WRC phase 1, and yet we still have a bloody single track going all the way from Portarlington to Galway. Had a proper discussion taken place then, WRC phase 1 would never have been built.

end of the road · 23-05-2023 4:24pm

it likely would have been rebuilt and reopened at some stage.

there is absolutely merrit in having rail services between the smaller cities such as galway and limerick.

forget about single track between athlone and portarlington in the context of the WRC, as while it is clear that stretch of line needs doubling, it was not going to get done at that time regardless of whether the WRC reopened or not unfortunately.

same with double track between galway and athenry, reopening all the way to navan ETC.

timmyntc · 23-05-2023 4:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120631873#Comment_120631873

It depends on what the goals were defined as.

Cater for most amount of passengers? Obviously mainline upgrades win out.

Cater for greatest region/area? WRC 1 makes sense, connecting 2 large regional cities and providing rail connectivity to Clare and south Galway.

Really though, if WRC1 hadn't happened, do you honestly believe that Galway to Athenry would be double tracked? I don't.

brianc89 · 23-05-2023 4:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120631873#Comment_120631873

There has been a major policy change regarding funding for Public Transport versus Roads. The Greens under Eamon are driving this, but it is unlikely to change in future governments, due to the new, legally binding, Climate Act.

We can now expect numerous rail upgrades across the country to be prioritised, including dual tracking and extensions.

Pete_Cavan · 23-05-2023 5:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120632116#Comment_120632116

But the point being made is that these upgrades should be targeted at where the will have the greatest impact. Reopening old lines should be well down the list of priorities given the scale of investment the existing network requires. As was said, there is very limited capacity to accommodate new branches. WRC Phase 1 was a case of a headline grabbing reopening winning out over less glamorous but extremely beneficial upgrades to the mainline, this needs to be avoided in future investments.

brianc89 · 23-05-2023 5:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120632296#Comment_120632296

So what, we ask a mod to close this pointless thread?

23-05-2023 5:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120631873#Comment_120631873

This is what I was saying

Like take a look at the Navan line. They've been pushing for that for decades, for a town of 30k. Cabinet recently signed off on the plan to do it at a cost of 750 million and construction will not start until some time in the 2030's with a projected completion of 2036 (but we all know that will end up being in the 2040's).

The WRC phase 2 project will be a long way down any list that includes a reasoned cost-benefit-analysis.

brianc89 · 23-05-2023 5:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120632296#Comment_120632296

I don't accept this argument that there is no capacity on the Athenry to Galway section. Tomorrow there is roughly one train every hour in each direction.

The passing loop at Oranmore should allow a major increase in trains up to every 10 to 15 minutes in each direction. Correct me if I'm wrong though?...

WRC trains could run Ennis to Tuam with connecting trains at Athenry. Higher capacity from Athenry to Galway could be achieved with longer trains.

ohographite · 23-05-2023 8:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630154#Comment_120630154

I don't mean to be rude, but I don't understand what you mean when you're telling me to be careful with the figures in the census. Can you explain it a different way, please?

I do however agree that the section of railway from Galway to Athenry should be double tracked. I even think it should be double tracked if the railway north of Athenry is never reopened.

I think if Galway-Athenry is double tracked, there should be local trains running only from Athenry to Galway, stopping at Oramore, every hour. Another thing that I think should be considered is building two new stations between Oranmore and Galway, one beside Ballyloughane Strand and another one at Roscam, and stopping the Athenry to Galway trains that I suggested in those new stations, so they would serve Athenry, Oranmore, Roscam, Ballyloughane and Galway. Then, I think these trains should be timetabled to depart Athenry for Galway just after trains from Limerick or Dublin have departed Athenry for Galway, and then the trains from Limerick and Dublin should continue to Galway non stop. This would allow people coming from the direction of Dublin or Limerick to quickly change trains to get to Oranmore, Roscam or Ballyloughane, and then it would speed up trains from Dublin and Limerick to Galway, as they'd no longer have to stop in Oranmore.

Westernview · 23-05-2023 8:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120632395#Comment_120632395

Yes in terms of numbers and demand Navan would definitely have to be ahead of the WRC.

However there are years of CPO and planning hurdles to overcome for the Navan. WRC wouldn't have obstacles of that scale I presume? I'm open to correction on that.

As you say there's no comparison in terms of economics and population and economics but the other factors are coming into play, such as balanced regional development and the increasing requirements on the big employers in the west to reduce their carbon footprints. Its those firms that have brought about the planned new freight yard for Castlebar. Rosslare has also recently stated a desire to link up the line to Ballina and Castlebar.

Also regarding the less aappealing but unavoidable political side of things. Gerry Murray Sinn Fein was on the radio again today going on about the scaling back of the N17 plans. If Ryan doesn't follow through on confirming plans for the line to Claremorris he's really giving SF an open goal for the next election.

brianc89 · 23-05-2023 9:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633002#Comment_120633002

It could be interesting there regarding the N17. The government has to seriously commit to one of these projects for the West / North-West.

They can't renege or drag their heels on both projects. I think the WRC would have a better chance?...

Westernview · 23-05-2023 9:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633068#Comment_120633068

I think so too. Would likely be the WRC over N17 the way it's looking, to Claremorris that is. Further North looks a long way off and possible never.

serfboard · 24-05-2023 2:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633085#Comment_120633085

It's only the absolute WRC fundamentalists who are still going on about a line north of Claremorris. As posted further upthread, Eamon Ryan himself suggests Greenwaying the line north of Claremorris.

That just leaves the SF cranks like Gerry Murray who claim that are going to: build a couple of thousand houses a week, fix the health service, fully fund and build all the planned road infrastructure, fully fund and build all the planned rail infrastructure (and even some unplanned stuff) etc. etc.

It's industrial-scale lying as befits Fianna Fail Nua. I'd have more respect for them if they tempered expectactions even a little, but no, they're going for the full sun, moon and stars which will in the end only leave the electorate more cynical and less likley to vote when they fail to deliver.

Pete_Cavan · 24-05-2023 2:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633068#Comment_120633068

The WRC north of Claremorris won't be happening regardless of what happens with the N17 north of there. The N17 south of Claremorris should see bypasses of Milltown and Ballindine regardless of WRC (CPOs in progress) which would leave it in good condition.

I don't see how the WRC and N17 could be linked, unless it was WRC south of Claremorris v N17 north of Knock which would make no sense.

marno21 · 24-05-2023 2:56pm

https://www.todayfm.com/podcasts/the-last-word-with-matt-cooper/eamon-ryan-why-is-electricity-so-expensive-in-ireland-and-how-do-we-lower-it

Ryan asked about the N17 upgrade from Sligo to Knock which has been mysteriously defunded and he starts on about him going to advocate for the WRC Phase 2 to open to get freight from Foynes and Rosslare to Ballina

brianc89 · 24-05-2023 3:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120635444#Comment_120635444

There are two separate projects here along the same corridor. Of course they're linked. They are linked politically and optically.

The government have to commit to general investment in the North West region. Assuming a limited pot of money, WRC phase 2 (Athenry to Claremorris) is far more likely to get funding than N17 upgrades, IMHO.

Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

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