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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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    #22232
    tom1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,458 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609160#Comment_120609160

    Yes and we export the surplus which makes our economy wealthier and feeds people other than in Ireland.

    What’s your point exactly?



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    #22233
    tom1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,458 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608893#Comment_120608893

    So do the UK have British airways and easy jets emissions on their transport carbon footprint?



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    #22234
    ps200306
    Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    From Biz Post ESG briefing:

    Political pushback puts brakes on Brussels’ green agenda

    The EU is being forced to delay parts of its green agenda as it confronts political headwinds ahead of next June’s European elections, the FT reports. Ursula von der Leyen, European Commission president, briefed journalists that the bloc needed to assess its capacity to absorb the large number of new laws in the pipeline, including the EU’s climate agenda. However, she insisted it had made “amazing progress” with its Green Deal legislation, which includes dozens of proposals covering all aspects of the economy and is designed to push the EU to reach net zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2050.

    Emmanuel Macron has called for a “regulatory break” on EU green law to allow industry to digest the large quantity of regulation recently pushed through, which Malte Lohan, director-general of Orgalim, the European manufacturing sector trade body, called “a tsunami of legislative proposals.” With looming European elections, EU legislators are facing increasingly difficult political terrain and time constraints as they seek to enact far-reaching rules aimed at addressing climate change and protecting Europe’s natural environment.

    The conservative European People’s party, the European parliament’s largest, has in recent weeks rejected initiatives on rewilding degraded land and seabeds and cutting pesticide use as it responds to a backlash from farmers. Manfred Weber, the group’s leader, welcomed Von der Leyen’s decision “to reflect on the scope and speed of this process. If climate wins and the rest of society loses we will not achieve net zero”. Italy’s prime minister, Giorgia Meloni, said the EU’s growing environmental push risked “damaging our economic fabric”. Other proposals due concerning microplastics and improving soil quality are likely to be delayed.

    However, some commissioners and political parties are resisting the pressure to pare back the environmental agenda. One EU official said some of the potential hold-ups were due to the complexity of the regulations, which would govern technical areas of climate law. The commission said it was up to the parliament and member states to “continue the work”. Pascal Canfin, a French liberal who chairs the parliament’s environment committee, said the EPP, von der Leyen’s own political group, was “being radicalised on an anti-Green Deal position.”



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    #22235
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120608891#Comment_120608891

    Aviation emissions are not counted as part of Ireland’s national targets. (They are managed at EU level using a cap/quota system.)



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    #22236
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Rosslare gets its draft foreshore licence. This will allow for a 220 million development to support the offshore wind sector as it grows

    https://www.independent.ie/regionals/wexford/wexford-district/management-say-rosslare-europort-will-be-ready-in-time-to-capitalise-on-construction-of-offshore-wind-farms/a1480969929.html




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    #22237
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The SEAI just completed a survey on attitudes towards renewables and the results are very positive

    https://www.seai.ie/news-and-media/seai-wind-and-solar-farms/

    Main report link below

    https://www.seai.ie/community-energy/ress/impacts-research/index.xml

    Specifically they surveyed a large qty of households close to renewable energy sites

    In 2022, surveyors conducted in-person interviews on the doorstep across all of rural Ireland. They surveyed 1,764 households. This included 1,116 households within 5km of a new commercial wind or solar project sites, of which 219 live within 1km of a project site.

    image.png
    image.png

    As for how Ireland is doing on its journey towards use of renewables, a huge % felt we should be rolling out more, faster. First image is in regards to wind, second is in regards to solar

    image.png
    image.png

    Overall, some really positive findings and these are consistent with other surveys done over the years.

    image.png
    image.png

    Surveys like this are incredibly important in that they garner legit views from people who would be most impacted by such facilities. Given that the response is so positive towards such projects shows that the belly-aching that goes on around these projects is often from just a handful of vocal loudmouths who really don't represent the vast majority of the locals

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


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    #22238
    tom1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,458 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609800#Comment_120609800

    How does this work and what stats do the aviation emissions go into?

    For example

    ireland has 10 tonnes of carbon

    France has 20 tonnes of carbon

    EU had 50 tonnes which is Ireland plus France= 30 tonnes plus 20 tonnes of EU aviation?



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    #22239
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    stars are one thing, targets and quotas are another. The stats can be presented any number of ways but there are specific mechanisms for managing carbon

    intra-EU aviation (along with industry and electricity generation) is in the ETS ‘bucket’. It is not attributed to any particular country for their target. The emitters have to buy allowances for every tonne of emissions. The price of these allowances is determined at an auction. The overall number of available allowances falls each year. Countries don’t have individual quotas or targets. There is one quota for the European Union overall. This is intended to allow for competition to drive down emissions.

    More on future plans at https://climate.ec.europa.eu/eu-action/european-green-deal/delivering-european-green-deal/aviation-and-eu-ets_en



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    #22240
    tom1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,458 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613735#Comment_120613735

    Ok get ya.

    So the more carbon ya burn the more you will need an allowance.

    The more demand there is for allowances the higher the price due to supply and demand as the number of allowances is falling year on year.

    So it’s in the companies interests to burn less carbon- in theory.

    What will happen is prices will go up to absorb the cost of the carbon allowances and this effects the consumer in the end- it’s a way of ending cheap air travel really.

    Anyway what happens to all the money generated from these carbon allowances that the companies have to pay? Where does it go- into the EU budget? Is it ringfenced for infrastructure or what’s the craic?



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    #22241
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613844#Comment_120613844

    What will happen is prices will go up to absorb the cost of the carbon allowances and this effects the consumer in the end- it’s a way of ending cheap air travel really.

    Not really. Engine and plane manufacturers are trying to develop zero/low emission options as fast as they can.

    The manufacturer that gets to market first will clean up

    The airline that doesn't have to pay for carbon credits will be able to charge lower air fares and dominate the market

    There is not a single manufacturer out there that isn't looking at multiple different options (hydrogen, battery, low emission fuels, etc)

    Anyway what happens to all the money generated from these carbon allowances that the companies have to pay? Where does it go- into the EU budget? Is it ringfenced for infrastructure or what’s the craic?

    A quick google can answer that I think



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    #22242
    tom1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,458 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613905#Comment_120613905

    That’s one way of looking at it but you conveniently have left out the R and D costs for development of zero/low emission engines and plane options.

    This R&D cost will be past onto the airlines who in turn will pass that on to consumers.

    So yeah it will mean higher costs for consumers.



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    #22243
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613988#Comment_120613988

    R&D is a normal business cost



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    #22244
    Furze99
    Registered Users Posts: 11,184 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120613905#Comment_120613905

    Come now, any self respecting & honest Green knows that airline travel is complete no-no. That we should be engaged primarily in local journeys using cycling/ walking and public transport. That we should be holidaying as close to home as possible and within the island. Let's be honest.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611984#Comment_120611984

    First thing we may do when looking at surveys and research is who commissioned the survey and/or research project. Applies to all aspects of such matters.



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    #22245
    roosterman71
    Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    No airline is going to charge less. There's a scramble on for new tech so the airlines themselves don't have to pay for the allowances.

    The cost of the new airplanes with the new tech will be higher to cover the R&D costs. Someone somewhere has to do it, and it will fall to the consumer.

    Cleaner engines, while welcome, won't lead to cheaper fares. In the same way renewable electricity didn't lead to cheaper electricity, or battery cars didn't lead to cheaper cars. Maybe in time way down the line



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    #22246
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120614276#Comment_120614276

    I disagree but we'll have to wait and see



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    #22247
    roosterman71
    Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120614320#Comment_120614320

    Have fares gone up or down over the last x years using already tried and tested proven tech? Have airfares gone up or down due to buying allowances? They "may" pay more for planes and use the savings on allowances to keep fares the same though.



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    #22248
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120614477#Comment_120614477

    We'll have to wait and see



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    #22249
    c.p.w.g.w
    Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120603042#Comment_120603042

    No I'm suggesting that the sledgehammer approach, that lacks any nuances isn't an answer...

    Including areas around hospitals within the congestion zones is an issue, especially for people with compromised immune function



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    #22250
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 15,110 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120609360#Comment_120609360

    I would like to believe that now seeing where this green driven ideology has left the EU on energy security, that this "pause" is due to the realisation of where this ideology is now threatening food security. But I doubt it.

    To me it`s nothing more than an effort to distract from this threat to food security and dampen down the present political pushback with EU election due next year. Especially after the kick in the teeth they got from a newly formed farmers party in the Netherlands coming from nowhere and taking 20% of the vote in this years provincial elections.

    Anyone who ever planted a seed in the ground knew that the green, "feed the world organically" was nonsense. For those that didn`t, Sri Lanka showed it for the BS it is. Not that green`s in general let reality cross the path of their ideology, so I can see where there is a move in the EU to dampen down any discussion on the green proposals on agriculture for herbicides, pesticides and nitrates.

    For just one of the herbicides they are looking to ban, glyphosate, an Environmental Science Europe analysis shows that doing so would result in an annual decline in production within the EU of up to 24 million tons of wheat alon.To put that into perspective, that is the total annual production of wheat in Ukraine where there are fears that if due to the war there, if 13.5 million tons are not exported it will cause famine in under-developed countries globally.



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    #22251
    DownByTheGarden
    Registered Users Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭DownByTheGarden


    We are doing a no car week with work. Someone in HR decided that they are going to show people how easy it is to get on without their cars, so they asked everyone to try it out. Seems like a good idea.

    Was ok for a couple of days that I didnt have to go anywhere.

    Today I have to go to Blessington.

    40 mins if even that each way by car

    2h 50m each way by public transport according to google.


    Sunday I have to go from Bray to Tallaght hospital

    26 each way mins by car

    2hrs each way by public transport.

    Public transport is so bad its sickening.



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    #22252
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120616605#Comment_120616605

    That's where a service like GoCar comes in very handy. I got rid of the car years ago and now walk/cycle/bus/rail everywhere, it's saved me thousands. For the rare times I need a car, I use that service. For me personally, turns out I only REALLY need a car maybe 6-7 times a year.

    That being said, it's a great initiative by your employer. Some staff will find the alternatives suit them perfectly fine while others will have no option but their existing mode for any number of reasons. Wish more employers would do similar initiatives



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    #22253
    ?Cee?view
    Registered Users Posts: 2,848 ✭✭✭?Cee?view


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120616605#Comment_120616605

    Hopefully that extra travel time is work time. The genius in HR needs to see the real effect of their "good idea"



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    #22254
    Pa ElGrande
    Registered Users Posts: 3,591 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120616605#Comment_120616605

    Another thing, if a large portion of the workforce cycles to work the company will need to provide shower/washroom facilities for all the cyclists to towel off and change clothing. This is something I've experienced first hand, with 10 cyclists and one facility and all want to use it at 8:45 AM. Imagine what happens when a workforce of several hundred people and even 20% of the workforce cycles to work. That is probably fine if most of the workforce lives within a few miles, that is not how the workforce in Dublin is organised. There will need to be a secure location to store the bikes, many people will throw in the towel after they experience their first bike theft. Most people have insurance to cover issues with the car, that is not the case with most bike owners.

    Anyone who uses public transport will eventually tire of waiting for the bus to arrive, all the stop|start activity to pick up and drop off people and navigate traffic lights to get to your destination and any bus changes and waits needed to get to your destination. It is genuinely quicker to use a bicycle, or better, an e-bike than Dublin bus to navigate the city Assuming there is no road accident on the day, it is very often quickest to use a car to get to your destination and you don't need to watch the weather as much.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



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    #22255
    ps200306
    Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120616800#Comment_120616800

    Maybe that works when your full time job is spamming boards with Green propaganda. You ignored the OP's point that he was required to make just two trips in one week involving ten hours by public transport. This obviously couldn't work for most people. When I had to commute around the M50 there was no feasible public transport option. That is going to be true for some proportion of the 150,000 people who use the M50 every day. At the margins there may be some people who have a choice. You might be able to change their habits by wielding the big Green stick. For most it will be a case of having to pay whatever punitive disincentives you introduce, so you just decrease people's quality of life. Personally, I love my car. You'd have to make it stupidly expensive before I gave it up. I weigh it against the societal costs of continued emissions and find that my personal equation favours the car.



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    #22256
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120617833#Comment_120617833

    If folks want to drive, keep doing so, but as you rightly acknowledge, it's going to get more and more expensive along with greater and greater restrictions as the priority and road space is shifted to sustainable modes.

    For you the bar at which its no longer a convenient option might be very high, for others it's not high at all and for others still that bar will never be reached.

    Different strokes for different folks



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    #22257
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 15,110 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120617890#Comment_120617890

    Imposing a range of greater and greater restrictions to achieve your aims is never a great look in a democracy.



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    #22258
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120622566#Comment_120622566

    When you're accustomed to privilege equality feels like oppression



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    #22259
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,709 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120622637#Comment_120622637

    The Greens will be dust at the next election, thankfully.



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    #22260
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120622658#Comment_120622658

    It going to be fun watching some folks come to terms with all these "green" things continuing to be implemented even if the GP don't get into power



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    #22261
    ps200306
    Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120616120#Comment_120616120

    Don't worry, the Greens won't take no for an answer in Europe. They are hell bent on stifling all growth. They held a three-day conference just this week right in the European Parliament in Brussels entitled "Beyond Growth". The opening session was addressed by the presidents of both the European Parliament and European Commision.

    Von der Leyen spewed some waffle about growth based on fossil fuels being "obsolete" -- as if her own country's mad scrabble for fossils to save the country from economic armageddon last year never happened. Metsola was more pragmatic, advising the Green attendees that growth was a priority, even if sustainable growth is preferable. Both she and von der Leyen are from conservative Christian Democrat parties, so they are not natural allies of the looney Greens. That said, similar to Ireland the mainstream politicians have sensed that the Green agenda is popular with young idealistic voters so they don't want to fall off that bandwagon.

    The same plenary session addressed by Metsola and Von der Leyen was also addressd by Adelaïde Charlier, a 22-year-old Belgian school striker who is now a "climate justice and human rights activist". To rapturous applause she preached an climate alarmist anti-capitalist degrowth agenda.

    https://www.beyond-growth-2023.eu/




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