Dublin Airport Bus Service Changes & Discussion

Rock Steady Edy · 07-05-2023 3:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120564020#Comment_120564020

Completely agree. Aircoach should not be allowed to introduce new services when they can't or won't service their existing ones.

In 2010 they drove the Patton Flyer into the ground by legitimately applying for a license which the PF didn't have, on the 703 route. They offered a 24 hour service at hourly intervals, and half-hourly intervals in the early morning.

Since then, the frequency has halved, the route and journey duration lengthened, and it's no longer a 24 hour service.

When I complained to Aircoach that we could not to the airport in time for an early morning flight last year, they suggested I make alternative arrangements. When I then escalated this to the NTA, they said it was a commercial decision as to when Aircoach should return to pre-pandemic service levels.

I still say they should have their 703 license revoked, but the NTA seem to lack bite judging by their response.

devnull · 07-05-2023 3:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120565663#Comment_120565663

Comparing Aircoach in 2023 with the Patton Flyer 13 years ago is nonsense. The employment landscape is totally different now.

All public transport operators are struggling with a lack of driving staff since the COVID-19 pandemic which is directly effecting the number of services that they can operate as a result of people re-evaluating their lifestyles and work/life balances. This is not just related to commercial operators, DB, BE and Go Ahead Ireland have all been suffering with a number of cancellations due to having insufficient driving staff. It is a problem that is not limited to the driving sector, labour shortages are widespread amongst many sectors.

An airport service lives and dies by it's reliability of service. I agree that the current timetables on the 702/703 are poor, but what are the alternatives? Schedule every single driver they have and when several staff call in sick cancel multiple services in a row because there is physically nobody to drive the bus and have every single passenger enter a lottery of whether a bus will turn up or not? Or is it better to have a thinner timetable but passengers know they can depend on a bus turning up as a couple of drivers calling in sick on a route doesn't make the whole service collapse? I agree neither are ideal but the later for me is better than the former.

The by far biggest driver of cancelled services and curtailed timetables in this country are to do with labour shortages. This has been discussed to death on these forums in the various threads for a long time now. Lobbying the NTA to remove licenses or PSO contracts (as I've seen people asking to do elsewhere) from operators is ridiculous and shows a clear lack of understanding as to the root causes of the problems. At best, you might have someone else who steps in with exactly the same issue. At worst, you might not have a service at all.

bk · 07-05-2023 5:32pm

Yes, in 2010 we were in a recession and the unemployment rate was 15% (and realistically higher, many emigrated), attracting people to become a bus driver and keeping people in the company was relatively straight forward then. A lot of people were willing to work any job they could get and those with a job were just happy to hold onto it.

Today our unemployment rate is the lowest it has ever been, I believe even lower then the height of the Celtic Tiger, but worse, at least during the Celtic Tiger, we were actually building massive numbers of homes and rents were relatively ok, thus we were able to attract people to come work in Ireland. Today, with the housing crisis and ridiculous rents, there isn’t really that option.

it is an extremely tough time for almost all industries to employ and retain staff.

mikeybhoy · 07-05-2023 9:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120565771#Comment_120565771

Would they not be better off giving up on either the Greystones or Killiney service and focusing on the other and putting on an hourly service. I can't see it being too commercially viable to operate both services with only a two hourly frequency.

LXFlyer · 07-05-2023 9:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120565663#Comment_120565663

You do understand that as a commercial operator, they are entitled to change the timetable, once they obtain approval from the NTA to whatever they want. It isn't a PSO service where the NTA specify the service levels.

They aren't obliged to operate the same timetable that they did pre-covid, and another operator is entitled to operate another commercial service along the same route, once they are in compliance with the NTA schedule guidelines.

As others point out, there is a chronic shortage of labour right now, and all of the operators are suffering as a result.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120567317#Comment_120567317

That's up to them - it is a commercial service.

bk · 08-05-2023 10:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120567317#Comment_120567317

That would be a pretty silly thing for them to do. I'd guesss that they are hoping that the driver shortage is a temporary problem that can be resolved in time.

If they gave up the license how diffiuclt would it be to get them back in say a years time if they had solved the drivers problem. What if Dublin Express or Dublin Coach swooped in to grab the license instead. I'd guess they are operating the route at a low frequency, just to keep it ticking over and route secured until things improve.

devnull · 10-05-2023 6:59pm

Little change to the Aircoach website today.

Free Travel Pass holders can book a seat online now for a £2 fee on the 700/702/703 services. A free travel pass holder will need to enter a valid pass number on the website when booking a ticket in order to do this and show the online booking confirmation and travel pass when boarding.

Booking ahead remains optional however and Free Travel Pass passengers can continue to walk up and access the 700/702/703 services without needing to pay a fee, subject to the coach not being full upon arrival at their stop.

belfast stephen · 14-05-2023 10:21pm

the 4 Mercedes-Benz Tourismo coaches were delivered to the Belfast Depot today Sunday 14th May

devnull · 15-05-2023 10:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120597614#Comment_120597614

They have been registered as BV72YCD/E/F/G.

I believe they are the 12.295m examples, which if true, means they are the shortest vehicles in the Aircoach fleet.

mikeybhoy · 16-05-2023 1:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120601557#Comment_120601557

Well if you don't count the staff shuttle buses

devnull · 16-05-2023 6:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120601997#Comment_120601997

Sorry. Should have used word coach!

coylemj · 16-05-2023 2:23pm

I've used the 700 Aircoach twice recently and an issue that I encountered both times going to the airport was the lazy driver who won't get out of his seat to open the luggage compartment for people with bigger bags. Which means that you have to lug your wheelie bag onto the coach, then the driver complains later down the route when passengers can't get seats - because you and your bag are taking up two spaces!

It caused huge ructions on one occasion when we stopped at the Carlton in O'Connell St. where there was a mob clamouring to get on, many with seats booked on that service. The problem was that half the people on the bus were singletons with a wheelie bag, each one taking up two seats. The driver came down the aisle and basically implied that we were a crowd of selfish b*tards, even though it was all his fault for not letting us put our bags in the hold!

mikeybhoy · 16-05-2023 2:47pm

You can open it yourself from the outside just push the red button on the outside. Not sure why Aircoach coaches don't have the ability to open the luggage door from inside the drivers cab BE has this.

coylemj · 16-05-2023 2:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120604008#Comment_120604008

I don't think Aircoach encourages this. If a passenger simply can't lift their bag onto the coach and asks the driver to open the luggage compartment, he gets out and opens it. I have never seen a passenger open it on their own initiative or hear the driver tell a passenger how to open it.

belfast stephen · 16-05-2023 5:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120601557#Comment_120601557

they should be Getting NI Reg plates soon and need a Northern Ireland Psv Before driver type training can start

devnull · 16-05-2023 6:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120604726#Comment_120604726

Odd that they'd register them in the UK only to change them to NI plates a short while later. Also the fact they're on 72 plates suggests that these vehicles have been registered since at least February else they'd be on 23 plates.

Sounds like none of them are going to be on the road anytime soon. Be curious how they will type train people and still maintain a regular service knowing how short they are of drivers.

devnull · 19-05-2023 9:57am

Serious disruption on the Aircoach 700 route today.

They're cancelling the 09:30, 10:00, 11:00, 11:45, 13:00, 13:45, 16:45 17:00 from Leopardstown. The service provided last night was also poor with large gaps of around an hour on airport bound services.

There seems to be a commercial decision made that they are going to prioritize services from the airport over those to the airport recently, I assume because of the close proximity to the competition at the airport means a greater chance of losing customers. Either that or they are simply not advertising these cancellations and are just selling tickets at the airport stop at the kiosk and making people wait it out.

I see Aircoach are hiring another three middle managers. They seem to be hiring an awful lot lately whilst the number of driving staff available seems to be decreasing even after flying some over from the UK. Some might argue that instead of creating a bloated, First UK like operating company structure despite being a relatively small size, they'd be better off using the €50k+ each being spent on some of those roles to help retain staff.

coylemj · 19-05-2023 4:45pm

Must have beeen a serious shortage of buses or drivers if they cancelled two consecutive (16:45 and 17:00) departures.

I now assume that the 700 service that should arrive after I get to the stop will be cancelled so I allow for a 30 minute wait. For a service that's scheduled to depart every 15 minutes.

devnull · 19-05-2023 7:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120617297#Comment_120617297

Shortage of drivers is the issue. They're three full duties down on the 700 at least and I'm not so certain other duties are being operated in full.

I had a friend going for a bus earlier and they couldn't be on despite being booked on the service in question as it was full of people who were booked on earlier buses that had been cancelled. Can't be fun driving on that route at the moment.

The other thing is that daily now they're having to have several drivers in Dublin work the 705X to Derry because of a shortage of drivers in NI. The numbers required has increased since it was extended from Belfast to Derry and not all the Airporter staff came across.

Next few days and weeks are going to be key. If it carries on or gets worse it really calls into question the decision for an operation short on drivers to spend several million by extending the 705X to Derry when perhaps that cash might have been better used to make terms more attractive to get staff to stay.

belfast stephen · 19-05-2023 9:49pm

talk of the 705x going hourly in the Next 6 weeks

devnull · 19-05-2023 10:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120618301#Comment_120618301

Yeah, because when you're struggling to staff existing duties to the point the reliability of the service on some of your routes is suffering the most obvious thing to do is to simply add further duties into the mix. That's bound to help isn't it.

coylemj · 20-05-2023 12:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120618479#Comment_120618479

+1 More cancelled departures from Leopardstown (700) today on Facebook.... 10:00, 13:00, 13:30, 16:30 and 17:00.

devnull · 20-05-2023 1:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120619643#Comment_120619643

Does seem that there are more Dublin based coaches out on the network today.

However according to Bustimes.org it appears that they've got just two NI based coaches operating on the 705X today so far with five Dublin based coaches so far on what is supposed to be a service fully operated by the Northern Ireland arm which obviously then leaves Dublin short, hence cancellations on the 700.

It does seem very much a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul.

halfpastneverr · 20-05-2023 11:57pm

Is airport hare still running? one of their buses passed me at the Green Isle Hotel the other day, but the website and social media are both gone.

LXFlyer · 21-05-2023 12:03am

They never "took off".

Airport Hopper are running between the Airport and Maynooth or Tallaght.

Citrus_8 · 21-05-2023 11:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120622467#Comment_120622467

Interesting. I just saw a Airport Hare bus in Ballymount Industrial Estate this Monday early afternoon.

However, I can definitely confirm that Tallaght and Maynooth is operated by the Airport Hopper branded buses as I often see then around Liffey Valley.

L1011 · 21-05-2023 1:30pm

Hopper also have an unbranded gold Turas on some of the lighter load runs

L1011 · 22-05-2023 2:56pm

221 reg Turas on the Hopper now with Celbridge on the route list on the decals.

Dualway were about to launch this in 2020 so presumably whatever way the route authorities have transferred over means it's still on the cards

dublinman1990 · 22-05-2023 4:04pm

The Aircoach cancellations on the 700 is not great at all. I would suspect that if Aircoach continue to place more priority on making the 705X an hourly service from next week. The viability of the timetable for the 700 must come into sharp focus from now on.

They are really making very huge attempts to overstretch themselves with trying to provide a service that it makes them look like the good boys in the Dublin Airport bus market.

Although the damage done to provide that service makes them look not so smart in the long run. It is not a sustainable way in how to run a reliable bus service from one of the biggest airports in the country. It actually makes Aircoach look very foolish in the eyes of their paying customers.

If these customers decide to make more complaints to Aircoach in future then so be it. It is Aircoach's problem to try and fix in the first place. They cannot survive in this market if they continue to create this joke of a service in the near future.

It would probably make a lot of sense to me at this point that the service provision for the 700 would be placed on a more limited timetable from now on. A two hourly timetable to me for the 700 does make it look more palatable to make it look it can be timed like the 702/703's timetable.

LXFlyer · 22-05-2023 4:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627461#Comment_120627461

Airport Hopper did mention on their FB page a while back that they had received a lot of requests to serve Celbridge.

Dublin Airport Bus Service Changes & Discussion

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