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Is the uneven distribution of farms to children still common place?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,455 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Obvious non farming background here, but does anyone ever convert the farm into a limited company with the only employees being the people actually farming it? Then you can split ownership any number of ways without breaking it up. Maybe you could have a rule you could only sell shares to family.

    I imagine it's more admin than normal and I have no idea how variable salaries or shareholder AGMs would go but maybe it happens? Probably wouldn't be seen as viable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 727 ✭✭✭Cushtie


    There are 6 children in our family. Oldest son, not the oldest child was always the one going to get the farm. Small farm by today's standards. He showed the interest and put in the work from a very early age. When I was off playing sport and chasin girls he was working away farming. The rest of us have been looked after with sites or a helping hand getting in the housing ladder. Farm has been transferred and he lives at home with elderly parents. House will pass to him when they pass on. Running joke in the family that what's left, if anything, will go to the 5 grandchildren.

    Thinking of others I know in the area, I can think of loads where it wasn't the first born son who got the farm. It was the son who showed the most interest.

    I do know in one case, where the eldest was a daughter, had great interest in farming, but the farm went to the only son. He was the youngest of 5. So I think there is a thing about it passing to a son alright, not necessarily the eldest son.



  • Registered Users Posts: 352 ✭✭iniscealtra


    Not a bad idea in some situations @TheChizler It would also create more on farm enterprise and diversification.

    Again is it viable? Plus more people get involved when you go down another generation. If a farmer has two children - maybe ok but if he had seven what happens when those seven kids have children. If they have 14 children between them it is then between 14 people and becomes unviable.

    If one person inherits they leave it to one child and so on and on down the line. One boss, one decision maker, no arguments.

    It’s usually left to one person so that there are no arguments. Other family members accept parents decision as the inheriting member will have been seen as the farmer from teenage years and have the interest. Any money in the parents bank acc will go to siblings who did not inherit generally in the will but farm will have been handed over years before.

    If farmer has no children the farm will be left in the will.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,466 ✭✭✭J.O. Farmer


    In the case of the farmer with addiction problems being stopped from selling the land perhaps the addiction was a factor.

    The family may not have wanted them to have more funds to feed the addiction.

    In most cases if you own an asset you can sell it. However often times land is left to someone who wants to farm it and won't want to sell it. A farm is like any other business. How many family run shops do you see sold.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,466 ✭✭✭J.O. Farmer


    Good idea in theory but reality is at best a farm would pay 1 employee and in a lot of cases it doesn't.

    It would be a recipe for disaster as now instead of 1 person getting the farm and managing how they see fit they now do all the work and have to get agreement from the shareholders to make any major decisions. Even smaller decisions could have to be answered for when the company doesn't make money



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,074 ✭✭✭Deeec


    Im the daughter of a farmer - although my brother will get the biggest share Im happy with what I will inherit. I am being looked after.

    I have always done the paperwork and financials for the farm. This is an important role that is often overlooked. Im sure neighbours and onlookers will say I had no interest in the farm over the years but I do have a big part to play in doing the ever growing paperwork associated with the farm. This role is also time consuming.

    Also I have a female cousin who is in her 50s. She was the one who stayed at home to look after her disabled mother. Her brother inherited farm and farmhouse ( its in the farmyard). Her mother is now dead and she has to move out of the house. She now finds herself in her 50's, she never married or had a serious relationship because of caring for her mother. She now finds herself with nothing which is unfair.

    What Im saying I suppose is that there is lots of roles played in a farming family but often the one that is seen doing the manual labour on the farm is the favoured. Im not saying thats wrong but there are circumstances where other siblings should be looked after some way and thats not always the case.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,206 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    There s a balance between the commercial viability of the farm and fairness and the investment of the children in the farm.no 2 cases are the same and can be very difficult to tease out



  • Registered Users Posts: 352 ✭✭iniscealtra


    In that case your cousin should have a right of residence in the house until she dies. I assume that the house and farm were handed over before the parents died so it’s in her brother’s name.

    She should also be given the option of a site on which to build a house and see if she can get a mortgage from the council for low income earners.

    She needs to have a chat with her brother if he’s reasonable.

    @Deeec



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,074 ✭✭✭Deeec


    No farm wasnt transferred before the mother died due to her being sick years. Will was made before the father died 30 years ago. The mother should have really being in a nursing home years ago but my cousin did her brother a huge favour by looking after the mother at home and keeping the farm away from the clutches of the fair deal scheme. They always got on well and she was shocked when she was told to find somewhere else to live as the eldest nephew wanted to move into the house. I think she now just wants to get away from the house as she no longer feels its her home. Its just very sad that he seems to have no recognition that she gave up her life to care for the mother.

    I think she should at least get a site or some money in recognition to the role she played looking after the mum. Nursing home care would have cost a fortune if that route had of been taken originally and no doubt the brother would be in a completely different financial situation now if that had been done.



  • Registered Users Posts: 352 ✭✭iniscealtra


    The brother sounds like a ***te. Someone should have a word with him.

    If he inherited everything his mother’s care should have been his reaponsibility. That’s how I would look at it.

    @Deeec



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  • Registered Users Posts: 352 ✭✭iniscealtra


    That’s a bizarre response. Feel free to disagree if you like or take part in the disscussion. If you prefer insults ……. @White Clover



  • Registered Users Posts: 790 ✭✭✭Pinsnbushings


    I've an uncle inherited my mother's home place. It was still my mother and her sisters looked after her mother in her latter years. A selfish man but in fairness the family has moved on but it was annoying at the time



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,806 ✭✭✭older by the day


    For the crack try this statement.

    The farm should not be signed over untill they are married. So you can check out the partner.

    Land is very valuable. One bad argument could half the asset that took generations to build.



  • Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Adult children have no absolute right to inherit anything from their parent's estate if their deceased parent left a valid will.

    While parents are obliged to provide adequately for minors, they are no longer obliged to provide for children once they reach adulthood.

    At that stage, parents can will their property to whomever they choose, and exclude whomever they choose.

    It may not be fair, but it is what it is.

    Anyone throwing money at solicitors to contest a valid will is most likely throwing their money away.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,523 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    I would not know the legalities of it. I just know the son. He lived with the mother and another sister and cared for the mother who was ill in her last few years. There are other sisters and one has started legal action for a share of the property.

    My own father inherited his father's house. His is the only son of 6.He sold the house and split it 6 ways.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,836 ✭✭✭Ten Pin


    Seems Adriana Acosta Cortez has moved on from generating Irish Times articles to starting threads on boards



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,523 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    All I know is that the mother had alzheimers and maybe that was part of the argument. The son was very stressed about it so I didn't go into it with him. I always remember my own father telling us wills and inheritances divide families.



  • Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I had a friend in this situation once (eta- though not from a farming family).

    She lived at home with her parents, all her life (never married). She retired from her job in her mid 50s due to ill health. 3 siblings, all married with kids of their own.

    She cared for both her elderly parents until they died, within a year of each other (cancer, in both cases).

    The parents had willed the house to her as they considered their other children set up in life, with homes and families of their own. They did leave them some cash via an insurance policy.

    One sister was furious and demanded her "full inheritance". She wanted to house sold, which would effectively have left my friend homeless, as she wouldn't have qualified for a mortgage for anywhere else.

    In the end it was settled by my friend (supported by her other two siblings) making a will that upon her death, the house would be sold and divided between all her siblings children and she got to remain in her home for the rest of her life. She died about 10 years later. I don't know what happened after that.



  • Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Very likely that the sister is attempting to make a case on the grounds that the will was not valid, so.

    This highlights how important it is that parents make wills while their children are young, and revisit them at various times during the various stages of their life.

    Made my first will when I was 27!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,337 ✭✭✭Suckler


    Spot on. I know I was lucky in one sense, the parents were worried that the farm might cause a row and divide the siblings but they knew/acknowledged that I'd done the work over the years and put my own money in at times. They'll end up benefitting with cash + other assets etc. The wife was fairly vocal with me on who got the better deal in her opinion......

    I'd one brother I thought might want a cut at it but he'd be happy to come and give a dig out when it suited him then leave the wet dark winter feeding to myself. If there was a likely hood that the farm be divided, it would have killed me but I'd have walked away and see it remain as one block.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,523 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    I think your friend had a right to stay there, it was her home after all. I wonder how a court would see it? I'm not sure when the house was left to my friend. He just said it was willed to him and one sister both living there. It must be a horrible situation.



  • Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Oh, his sister lives in the house too?

    (eta) just re-read. The house was willed to him and a sister who both live there, and it's another sister who is taking a case.

    It sounds horribly messy. And yes, must be extremely stressful.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,523 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    One of the sisters has always lived there but not the sister taking legal action.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,998 ✭✭✭893bet


    Shocking. I hope she made a second will later leaving the house to ever she actually wanted.


    Some people are just discusting. Farming family nearby in the lasts 12 months. Different farms owned by brothers, one wi th grown up children.


    The nephew was helping his son-less uncle with Agfood online as his uncle was not tech savvy. In the week before his death a lot of cattle moved herd number.

    Have another close friend where POA was abused by his uncle (who had POA over his father, my friends grandfather) to sell part of assets while alive to their own son.


    People can be very low.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,165 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Everyone is entitled to leave their assets to who they like, a lot of people put themselves in trouble by not sorting things before they commit to farming.

    Very few wills are challenged success fully, the will is usually followed to the letter.

    Marriage breakdowns are so prevalent now it's understandable that farmers would be reluctant to transfer



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,808 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    " ....parents can will their property to whomever they choose ....."

    This is not exactly true. People should be aware of The 1965 Succession Act. It ensures that a surviving spouse gets adequately provided for.

    Succession Act, 1965 (irishstatutebook.ie)

    'If I ventured in the slipstream, Between the viaducts of your dream'



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭Packrat


    Some people have no sense of natural justice only see what they can grab themselves.

    Ever hear "sure who does he want it for and neither chick nor child by him" said about some poor hoor in his late 40s or 50s who put his life on hold for the place.

    They then give to some other sleveen who never worked a day there to enrich his non-farming kids.

    It's not like any other inheritance and shouldn't be treated as one.

    “The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command”



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,523 ✭✭✭Ginger83


    It does happen. When we moved to our current home we were advised by more than one local to "be careful" with one particular neighbour. There was an elderly gent living on a small farm who kept to himself. He was befriended shall we say by a married woman late in life, passed away and then the family find out the farm has been signed over to her. She moves into the house shortly after... with the husband.

    It was about 40 years ago but the bitterness in the area lives on today.



  • Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    While parents are obliged to provide adequately for minors, they are no longer obliged to provide for children once they reach adulthood.

    At that stage, parents can will their property to whomever they choose, and exclude whomever they choose.

    Well, I thought it was clear my response was in relation to their children. Not their spouses. But point taken.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,975 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    Best thing any young person can do is if they haven't the farm in the process of being signed over by 25, start planning for the possibility that they won't be getting it. If things aren't moving by the time they're 30, forget about it and move on with their lives. Treat it as a plus if it they actually do get if.

    Life's to short to be messing around waiting on a farm that might never come.



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