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Taylor vs Cameron

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    #332
    normanoffside
    Registered Users Posts: 9,987 ✭✭✭normanoffside


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120623964#Comment_120623964

    Sure, but 2 minute rounds means they can't ease into rounds and just have to go for it. You can't afford to lose a minute of a round.

    20 minutes total fight time means they don't have to worry about the gas tank as much as the males.



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    #333
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,525 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120623985#Comment_120623985

    Spot on..



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    #334
    Morrison J
    Registered Users Posts: 3,855 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    Was shocked that Taylor's handlers let her take the Cameron fight tbh. Was always a fight she'd more than likely lose unless getting the benefit of a robbery. Won't win a rematch either so not really sure where she goes from here. Croke Park surely dead in the water.

    Real shame about Cully. Think if built correctly he could have got to the level of headlining the 3Arena himself in a big fight. Long way to go now to make that a reality.



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    #335
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,525 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120624411#Comment_120624411

    Good shout on Cameron

    But no idea what you ever saw with Cully tbh



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    #336
    Morrison J
    Registered Users Posts: 3,855 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120624421#Comment_120624421

    Yeah I didn't think he'd be winning a world title in that stacked of a division but I thought he could get to the point of being built up to a shot at a world title tbh.

    Getting dropped heavy by Craig Woodruff a few years back definitely a bigger red flag at the time than I realized. Cully too sloppy coming in and too hittable. Seriously exposed last night.

    I do think whoever Matchroom's matchmaker is needs sacking at this point though. Amount of b-side Mexicans that have got shock KO wins over their fighters is mental.



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    #337
    reclose
    Registered Users Posts: 403 ✭✭reclose


    Can there be a case made for Katie winning the rematch at all?



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    #338
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,525 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120624769#Comment_120624769

    If she develops about 20 percent more physical strength, maybe. But aged 37 for it, unlikely.

    I’d make Cameron quite a warm favorite. But a lot to consider.. Cameron could have an off night, and Katie a very sharp night…



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    #339
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,535 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    That was a very big mismatch in terms of strength and power and it became clear very quickly. A very weird opponent to pick for the homecoming.



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    #340
    Celia Gifted Concrete
    Posts: 13,688 ✭ Celia Gifted Concrete


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120624769#Comment_120624769

    If Katie was 32 she'd wipe the floor with Cameron, alas, time waits for no-one, other than Lomachenko who should have beaten Haney.



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    #341
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,525 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120624979#Comment_120624979

    Hindsight a wonderful thing. Cameron isn’t some killer. She won last night by being physically stronger and more intense. Katie was a warm favorite. She just couldn’t contain Cameron. I wouldn’t say a weird opponent to pick



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    #342
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,525 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120624987#Comment_120624987

    Not sure what you’re seeing in 2018 Katie so different that sees her wipe the floor with Cameron.

    Katie’s best ever performance in the pros was her win against Serrano only a year ago..she didn’t suddenly regress that much between last year and last night



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    #343
    Sunny Disposition
    Registered Users Posts: 2,773 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    I was amazed at how badly Taylor started. I dunno, but I suspect she was frazzled mentally due to being at home.

    To me she looked kinda vacant somehow beforehand. It was a very close fight, she almost got a draw, but was always up against after those early rounds.



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    #344
    Celia Gifted Concrete
    Posts: 13,688 ✭ Celia Gifted Concrete


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120625036#Comment_120625036

    Yes, and I think a 32 year old Taylor wipes the ring with Serrano too.

    As I said earlier in the thread, it's a shame Taylor turned pro so late but thinking about it it's just one of those things, whereby she was so far ahead of everyone there wasn't much more she could do beforehand.

    Total respect to Cameron, she put her record on the line (which the men don't do) and came to Ireland to fight the best. She's 32 with less than 20 wins. She'll be toppled in the next few years. It'll take a while for women's boxing to evolve but at least they fight the best.



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    #345
    Brock Turnpike
    Registered Users Posts: 3,744 ✭✭✭Brock Turnpike


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120625655#Comment_120625655

    I agree re: her starting poorly and looking fazed She seemed to be over awed by the occasion



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    #346
    Sunny Disposition
    Registered Users Posts: 2,773 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120625974#Comment_120625974

    It was something I hadn't expected at all, she seemed really uncomfortable. I don't think she settled until half way through the fight.

    I dunno if it's correct that there's no chance for her in a rematch, she was only narrowly defeated despite that poor start. Cameron would be the warm favourite, but Taylor would have a chance.



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    #347
    Banjo Carney
    Registered Users Posts: 232 ✭✭Banjo Carney


    First of all hands up I'm no expert at scoring boxing matches but it seemed to me Katie was well beaten unfortunately. I can't believe one judge scored it a draw.

    Also I heard on the radio this morning that a rematch would be at light weight. Wouldn't this help Katie.

    For what its worth I was hoping Katie would walk away after the Serrano fight.



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    #348
    Sunny Disposition
    Registered Users Posts: 2,773 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120626157#Comment_120626157

    I think it depends what you liked to an extent. For me Cameron won 6-4, I thought there were five rounds Cameron won convincingly and three Taylor won convincingly, the other two were less clear cut.



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    #349
    dubrov
    Registered Users Posts: 3,568 ✭✭✭dubrov


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120625749#Comment_120625749

    I am not sure if women's boxing is any better than the men's in terms of the best fighting the best.

    Even Katie has had a ton of dud fights where she was 95%+ to win before the bell was rung.



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    #350
    Celia Gifted Concrete
    Posts: 13,688 ✭ Celia Gifted Concrete


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120627250#Comment_120627250

    Women's boxing may be behind the men in terms of quality but the best women fight the best women.

    If Taylor and Cameron were in the men's division they'd spend a decade ducking and diving each other.

    Taylor could have easily waited for the Serrano rematch and had a glorified sparring session for her homecoming. Equally, Cameron could have dodged a dangerous fight, putting her undefeated record on the line, by coming to Ireland to fight the best woman ever.



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    #351
    rob316
    Registered Users Posts: 18,050 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    Dont think she wins the rematch either, moving up a weight class against a younger champion is a bridge too far at 37.



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    #352
    normanoffside
    Registered Users Posts: 9,987 ✭✭✭normanoffside


    I’m only after seeing the official cards now.

    All 3 Judges had Cameron 4-2 up after 6 rounds and the only difference is that 1 judge gave Taylor 3 of the last 4 while the other 2 judges scored those 2-2.

    All judges gave Taylor 8 and 10 and all but 1 gave Cameron 7 and 9 (the judge who scored a draw also have 7 to Taylor).

    The scoring looks to have been pretty fair overall if a little generous to Katie.


    Taylor definitely paid in the end for her slow start but I think she was conserving energy and wouldn’t have been able to finish as strong if she started stronger. She doesn’t throw a lot of punches and doesn’t seem to be able to control the action without throwing loads.

    I can’t see a way for her to win a rematch against Cameron who is just too busy for her.

    Post edited by normanoffside on


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    #353
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,525 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    And Cameron has pretty decent attacking feet. Katie couldnt maintain any real distance.



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    #354
    normanoffside
    Registered Users Posts: 9,987 ✭✭✭normanoffside


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120628899#Comment_120628899

    Cameron was very good at cutting off the ring, she wasn't just plodding forward.



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    #355
    chopperbyrne
    Registered Users Posts: 10,997 ✭✭✭✭chopperbyrne


    If they do a rematch it has to be at the same weight. Katie doesn't prove anything by making Cameron cut weight.

    If she moved better, and fought from the outside more, she could have won that fight, but fighting smart has never been her strong point. Always gets dragged into brawls, and wins through output, and work rate.



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    #356
    normanoffside
    Registered Users Posts: 9,987 ✭✭✭normanoffside


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630038#Comment_120630038

    I saw a stat recently comparing female elite boxers punch output and Taylor was bottom of the table. Cameron threw twice as many punches as Taylor on Saturday.

    Taylor doesn’t normally win on output but on accuracy and flurries.


    edit: here it is

    https://twitter.com/compubox/status/1659945384796356610?s=46&t=wwQSEho_pFtWONHJ8yE_nQ




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    #357
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,525 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630038#Comment_120630038

    Exactly. She was dragged in. It wasn’t voluntary.

    Credit here needs to be given to Cameron. Not criticism to Katie. Cameron’s feet, stalking, pressure, fitness, punching and skills MADE it happen.

    Katie tried very hard to keep range and box/move. She wasn’t able to because of what Cameron brought. Katie could have just run all night, but what’s the use of that, other than ensuring you’re well beaten. She had to throw shots and engage to give herself a chance to win. Her problem was her shots had no power, and there weren’t enough of them compared to Cameron.

    Post edited by walshb on


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    #358
    SlowChris
    Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭SlowChris


    Best fighter won.

    I do think if Katie was at her peak she would have won though. She can't get in and out as she used to imo.

    Cameron had her for stamina. Taylor was panting big time after the early rounds.



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    #359
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,525 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630474#Comment_120630474

    What was her peak?

    Persoon a few years ago showed how you could really trouble Katie. Had that been Cameron (from Saturday night) I think Cameron wins..



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    #360
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,525 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630226#Comment_120630226

    Cameron’s punch output from Saturday was almost double Katie’s



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    #361
    normanoffside
    Registered Users Posts: 9,987 ✭✭✭normanoffside


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120631154#Comment_120631154

    Yes, i said that in the post you quoted :)

    It's commonplace for Katie, it was the same vs Serrano. She normally wins by landing a higher % than her opponent.

    She struggles with opponents that throw so much as she doesn't have time to set up her shots.



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