Teaching about Gender

Just on the above..

"This is a fact. Most people know and accept this"

Yes, we know that some people feel they are the wrong gender/were born in the wrong body. However that remains their opinion/view and fair enough. It doesn't change the fact that they were/are what they are though.

"this is opinion and I believe it should be taught"

No it's a fact. A trans male is NOT the same as a biological male. That's scientific fact. All the feelings and identity arguments and even invasive surgery and hormones won't change that either.

The only relevant piece is that it is indeed an opinion that there is no difference and people are free to disagree with that if they wish.

This is our stance on it.

There would want to be an opt in / opt out letter from the schools. They wouldn't want to go over our heads on this.

I would want to see a lot more about the proposed "on the ground" approach that'll be implemented and ideally the course/material myself before I'd be happy with it being pushed on my child personally.

As I said, they are very impressionable at that age and soak everything up, but haven't the maturity to properly consider or question it - especially if it's coming from a teacher.

While I get your point on being careful around only teaching the facts (no quotation marks needed), the line between fact and feeling should be very clear. Anyone can feel or believe whatever they wish about themselves and that's fine, but there are limits to what can and should be expected of others around them - basic manners and courtesy, absolutely. Watering down or confusing the sense of self of those others or the facts/realities because of it, nope!

Parents should then of course supplement this based on their own views. Too much is already left to the schools/teachers in fairness.

We can't ignore the truth though that this entire issue has been massively inflated by social media crusading and virtue signalling to where it seems that there's a lot more kids/teens impacted than there really is. There's a risk of adding unneeded confusion to already confusing teenage years, or making it a trendy cause to jump on/be a part of or in the case of younger kids, labelling and "pushing" them down a path when all they were doing was harmless play or curosity.

Needs to be handled very carefully and as I said too, preferably as an optional item on the calendar.

Post junior cert then maybe (and with the same clear lines between facts and feelings being drawn), but certainly not before that except in the most general of terms - "male/female, boy or girl. Some people feel they should have been the other and that's fine. We should treat everyone with manners and respect regardless" level.

Again for me it would depend on the content and what the objective of this class is. I would want to see that beforehand myself.

I'm not at all sold on the idea of identity politics and social media crusades (which is what most of this is) being formalised on the curriculum in the first place.

What exactly do kids need to know about this topic beyond "You're born X or Y. Some people feel differently. That's OK. Treat them as you would anyone else. If you want to talk to someone about your own feelings then ideally your parents should be first, but if you're not ready for that or whatever you can talk to Z"?

Anyone who then wants to have that conversation can then do so - preferably with the guidance of someone trained to assess the situation and provide informed and balanced information to them and their parents, including the risks and consequences of any treatments that they may want to investigate.

Even as I type this, I know there'll be some who strongly disagree with the above approach (and that's fine too) but we're adults. We should be able to discuss these things rationally even though a trip through the CA forum will show otherwise, but that in fact is another reason I'd have strong reservations as I said before - the adults can't even agree on the definitions, approach or supports needed. How can we expect kids to?

We don't offer dedicated classes for how it's OK to be into nerdy things, wear goth gear (if that's still a thing!), or not into GAA though. No more than we do for adults who haven't met their partner, gotten married, bought a house and had some kids by their 30s - maybe we should?

But seriously, I still don't see why this topic is different in justifying a class, and especially given the fundamental disagreements and conflict around it, and the potentially damaging consequences of "intervention" in what are still just impressionable kids at that age.

Kids are not just mini-adults and they shouldn't be treated as such - especially when the adults (as I've said) can't even agree on the subject themselves.

Surely that exactly what would be taught in schools?

Thank you for your contributions, but I suspect that the OP is a troll. You provide them with a scientific explanation for the biological variability in humans, and yet the OP persist in asking for a "scientific proof". The OP is not looking for an explanation, they are looking for a confirmation of their biased opinion.

Again, you've answered your own question - it's because there are fundamental disagreements and conflicts that they need to be aware of them. The idea of keeping them ignorant in the age of high speed internet is simply niave and unrealistic. And the internet won't always be an unbiased guide (in fact it's probably very unlikely to be unbiased, lets be honest).

The examples you mention in your first paragraph are fallacies - a gender is something that's an integral part of you, hobbies as listed above, are not (I'll assume you're not saying gender is a hobby)

And again - we're not talking kids here, we're talking teenagers. And you can either choose to treat them with respect or you can lablel them "not mini-adults" and leave them to find it somewhere else. And you probably don't want them looking for it somewhere else.

They are twice as likely, look there are rakes of studies on that

This is a nice one as it looks at the factors that help including school acceptance. We've a high proportion of Trans kids, mainly due to other policies. It's caused no confusion for anyone else. Have you worked in environments with Trans kids or people?

The scaremongering is more on the side paranoid about kids transitioning. It's a very slow and deliberate process in Ireland, and Id agree it should be as it changes kids profoundly. But to think kids don't know about these things is phenomenally naive, the stuff 1st year are exposed to at 12 is shocking, I've had more issues with exposure to porn and violent imagery and the results than I've ever had with teaching kids that some people change genders. If we were serious about protecting kids we wouldn't be worrying about trained professional talking about something that is happening around them to people they know and we'd be on the streets or writing letters to make internet providers responsible for the access kids have to inappropriate content or banning personal devices for the under 12s.

My point in the sex determination was to say it's an evolving field, if you think it's that fixed you mustn't follow the research. Karyotyping is just the blunt tool! Plenty of tinkering with genes that isn't visual.

I am not trolling, personally. These are serious questions.

My opinion is that a teacher should provide pupils with the most up to date, accurate, age appropriate information, with (hopefully) no influence of any ideology. There is no need to be influenced by any "trans movements". Just give the latest scientific consensus.