Leinster Team Talk Thread (Love you Furlong time)

ersatz · 22-05-2023 10:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120626263#Comment_120626263

I also felt RB should have gone for the late penalty but according to ppl who were there and to the Williams/Thornley the wind was pretty bad there and that made the decision for him. Still should have gone for the DG tho'.

TRC10 · 22-05-2023 10:15pm

There is absolutely zero chance the IRFU are going to let Leinster sign an NIQ 10. You're wasting your time talking about it.

conquestscarer · 22-05-2023 11:30pm

I've no doubt in my mind if Joe McCarthy came on in that final he would have been our best second row post Ryan on the day. Jenkins and Molony really didn't contribute much to the game at all. If we get Ryan to be the main man at lineout time with Ryan Baird also capable of supplementing it we should still be great in that regard.

In the two games Joe McCarthy played in this post season in the URC he was incredible. I know he came off the bench, but he looked much more refined than he previously has. I don't think we have the luxury of not having him in HCup 23s next season. Looks like Jenkins just bullys smaller teams and Molony has a great set of hands at the line but the bread and butter of a second row is their physicality. McCarthy has it in buckets.

conquestscarer · 22-05-2023 11:44pm

Personally I'm very frustrated with the coaching staff this year. That game was almost a carbon copy of last year in the second half. The reason I'm so frustrated is that we have had a complete inability to clear the ball from our own 22. The JGP box kicks didn't work against Toulouse and almost let them back into the game yet we still persisted with them. Next year one thing I want to see from us is an ability to clear the ball better. Jamie Osborne might be a good player to start seriously considering popping in as a winger or centre. I know he isn't traditionally a winger but I think he would be fantastic there due to a combination of his boot and how he plays the game.

I have no idea how we didn't compete on any lineouts in that game. We were getting killed by their maul when we weren't going up so why wouldn't we stick a man up and atleast compete. Also taking shots at goal killed us because we couldn't exit.

Clegg · 23-05-2023 12:26am

Maybe Nienaber will have the inside track on some 20 year old 6'10 behemoth from the High Veldt.

That could be a useful resource to mine. Hopefully we don't go a stack the side with medicore South Africans however. Seen that go sideways before.

eagle eye · 23-05-2023 4:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120629698#Comment_120629698

I'd pay Damien Willemse any money to get him. Out-half problem solved and if you have injuries at center or full back he can step in there and play to a very high level. One of the best in world rugby and only 25. I'd imagine most players would jump at the chance to play for Leinster.

Mr Disco · 23-05-2023 5:34am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120629812#Comment_120629812

Silly thought. Leinster 10 needs to be available for ireland

eagle eye · 23-05-2023 8:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120629822#Comment_120629822

Why? Leinster need to worry about themselves. They have plenty of URC matches to showcase their no.2.

scott1974 · 23-05-2023 8:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120629698#Comment_120629698

Alan Spicer...

AbusesToilets · 23-05-2023 8:49am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120629822#Comment_120629822

Leinster have 4 potential international level 10s on the books. I think they'll be fine.

Buer · 23-05-2023 8:57am

Leinster don't need additional players to win the title. That 23 was more than good enough to deliver the title. A number of guys totally played within themselves after the break. I'd also suggest that the message from the coaches was fairly negative/conservative. We were looking to kick the ball away from early in the second half even off first phase set piece ball (when RB was charged down). Those were positions where we were using launch plays in the exact same spots in the first half.

It didn't drop our way on the day. I could name a dozen things that, if they happen differently, Leinster probably win. Ryan makes a huge play at the maul in the first half but a horror pass from JGP leads to a Lowe knock on and the first La Rochelle try. Lowe slices a kick badly when he has a 60m gain on the cards if he connects properly. Ala'alatoa doesn't have his moment of madness. Ala'alatoa milks Lavaults moment of madness and highlights that he got a shoulder to the head as Colombes grounds it. JOB delays a fraction of a second on his chase and nails Rhule forcing La Rochelle to kick to touch from deep in their 22. RB elects to take the kick at the posts. RB hits the post with two conversions from out wide. Baird screams for that pass outside JGP. James Ryan doesn't get injured. Furlong is fit for the day. So many tiny things went the other way.

Ifs and buts. It's done.

The players are good enough. The mentality after Ryan went off in the 29th minute was what lost us the game though. And I would put a portion of that with the coaching staff as much as those on the field.

Clegg · 23-05-2023 9:02am

I don't always agree with Ruaidhri O'Connor of the Indo. The comments he made about James Tracey post game were quite snide.

But he had a point when he compared this Leinster side to Schmidt's Ireland. Incredibly well drilled off the pitch and brilliantly executed when on it. But unable to make in game adjustments when things begin to turn against you. Leinster never got stale in the way that Ireland side did, which is a positive. Nienaber hopefully won't have to proceed on an arduous rebuild like Farrell.

Former Former Former · 23-05-2023 9:10am

Leinster are about as likely to recruit a foreign out half as they are to recruit ROG as a brand ambassador.

Ross Byrne has been plenty good enough for Leinster and Ireland all season. One game doesn't change that and it's mental to suggest that it should.

durthacht · 23-05-2023 9:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120629974#Comment_120629974

Leinster is just a branch of the IRFU and their signings are subject to IRFU approval, so Leinster can't just act independently.

FrannoFan · 23-05-2023 10:18am

Gibson park staying out there reminded me of the 6 nations game against France a coupe of years back when we only had a very young Craig Casey and Farrell just didn't want to use him.

Luke is a better defensive 9 and is a leader. Both things we were lacking in the second half.

Thought round 60 min Gibson Park looked wrecked and only likely to make more errors.

Easy to say with hindsight but thought it was pretty obvious in game too.

ionadnapokot · 23-05-2023 10:53am

Don’t always agree with Owen Doyle. 100% agree with this part in IT today.

“There is also the question as to what exactly Johnny Sexton said to Peyper just after the final whistle. I’ve no idea, but it didn’t look good.

There was a time when players and coaching staff respected each other and also the match officials, but that ethos, once jealously regarded by other sports, is in peril. We are seeing far too much stuff — on and off the pitch —...”

Blut2 · 23-05-2023 12:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120629225#Comment_120629225

There are four Irish qualified outhalves but none of them is currently good enough to replace Sexton, and none is likely to make that step up next year either.

Its not based one one poor performance. Byrne isn't a remotely bad outhalf, and hes perfectly capable for week-in week-out games in the league, but he has never performed at the top level in Europe consistently.

The priority of the provinces isn't developing players for the national team, its winning. The priority of the IRFU is developing players for the national team while not undermining provincial performance too much. They have over the years let plenty of NIQ fly halves play for Irish teams, it just depends on the provinces making a good enough argument for it. Which, in this case, Leinster could do.

A top NIQ player playing the big games (the Sexton role/gametime) for a year or two, Byrne managing the league games, and Prendergast developing behind them and gradually getting more gametime would be a perfectly reasonable set up for both Leinster's performance and Ireland's player development for example.

RichieRich_89 · 23-05-2023 12:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630861#Comment_120630861

It's not happening. Sexton's finishing soon. Who knows what's up with Carbery? Burns isn't really good enough. Carty is too inconsistent. Healy has thrown his lot in with Scotland. Jackson is out of the picture. The IRFU aren't going to leave themselves in a position where Crowley is essentially the only option. The Byrnes and Prendergast need all the exposure they can get.

Frawley's there too, obviously. Personally, since he started playing some outhalf again, I've started to think he doesn't really have it there. He doesn't generate enough activity around him in terms of bringing people into the game with an array of passing skills and good timing.

aloooof · 23-05-2023 1:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630861#Comment_120630861

I agree with some of your post except for the final part:

…it just depends on the provinces making a good enough argument for it. Which, in this case, Leinster could do.

A top NIQ player playing the big games (the Sexton role/gametime) for a year or two, Byrne managing the league games, and Prendergast developing behind them and gradually getting more gametime would be a perfectly reasonable set up for both Leinster's performance and Ireland's player development for example.

I think this is flawed for a number of reasons.

Firstly, you don’t mention Harry Byrne at all. There’s only so many minutes to go around. (And that’s without mentioning Frawley too).

Secondly, a top NIQ, in the most pivotal position on the pitch, is going to come at a huge cost.

Thirdly, you generally want your NIQ’s to be amongst your highest minutes played for that season, to get the most out of the investment. Having one in the Sexton role doesn’t achieve that.

Dubinusa · 23-05-2023 1:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120629698#Comment_120629698

The last thing I want is more imports. We have our own lads to develop. Size of players isn't the end all. We face monster lads every week and win. Toulouse had Meafou. Glasgow have Gray.

Our issue is that Furlong became poor. He wasn't the player he was. Jenkins didn't perform. If Furlong was at his best I think we win last week, or at least front up better.

There's young Leinster lads developing and I think they're worth the effort.

Dubinusa · 23-05-2023 1:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630112#Comment_120630112

4 out lalfs and 2 of them internationals. We have a glut in my opinion. We're good!

Dubinusa · 23-05-2023 1:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630861#Comment_120630861

Ross Byrne is an international and was the best out half in Ireland this year, imo. Harry B is finally getting a run of games. He's just turned 24! There's 2 quality players in the academy.

Who would Leinster sign? It would be a waste, imo. A conversion goes between the posts and Leinster win last Saturday.

Leo fcuked up the use of the bench, imo.

Dubinusa · 23-05-2023 1:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630384#Comment_120630384

Agreed! Park wasn't playing well. Luke would have helped.

Dubinusa · 23-05-2023 1:27pm

Leinster have been the best, or one of the best teams in Europe over the last few years. They lost twice to a superb La Rochelle. No shame in that.

They could have won in both matches. They didn't deserve to, imo. I think that Leo got it wrong with resting the frontliners. I did agree with it at the time but upon reflection, it was probably the wrong play.

Seriously, La Rochelle are fantastic! We didn't lose to a middling side. We got clipped by the best. We can beat them. We're not done, there's plenty left for this squad.

AdamD · 23-05-2023 1:45pm

We're never going to sign a 10 and we shouldn't. The coaching team have plenty to work with in Ross Byrne, Harry Byrne, Frawley, Prendergast & Tector.

A-Train · 23-05-2023 2:02pm

So is the overall thought process we are fine, keep plugging away with what we have? Something has to change, hopefully the coaching setup changes this year will help bring a new set of eyes on the team, it might break groupthink if it has crept in.

Jenkins isn't the answer for the 2nd row issue, McCarthy is still too raw and an unknown.

The number 10 without Sexton is an issue as none are strong enough to help win a cup at this moment in time. Some will never be strong enough and others need a couple of years to develop and then hope and pray that they get to the required level.

eagle eye · 23-05-2023 2:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630198#Comment_120630198

Did you read my post? I made the point that Willemse has played at center and full back as well and at a very high level. He plays 80 minutes so you can start him at inside center and if things aren't going well at out-half you can switch him there.

He's a better center than Ngatai and with Henshaw so injury prone he'd be a perfect fit there. How many games has Henshaw played in his eight years with Leinster?

23-05-2023 2:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120631392#Comment_120631392

I don't think anyone is disputing the quality of player Damian Willemse is - he'd be an elite signing for Leinster obviously. But if he was available, he'd be a target for every big French club too, so would cost a fortune. I can't see a scenario where they'd sanction that sort of signing. They're going to invest time next season in Harry Byrne and Sam Prendergast hopefully at 10, and that's the right thing to do long term for both Leinster and Ireland.

RichieRich_89 · 23-05-2023 2:19pm

I thought the South African fans/media perspective was largely that Willemse isn't actually that good at 10 and what gets him ahead of Libbok for the Boks is the necessity for versatile backs if the bench is a 6/2 split.

TRC10 · 23-05-2023 2:42pm

3 weeks ago Sam Prendergast was the messiah was going to the world cup. Now Leinster's 10s aren't good enough and they need a world class NIQ. What happened hahaha?

Leinster Team Talk Thread (Love you Furlong time)

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