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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    Barryroe are now "considering their options". Probably going to court. I mean, what else can they do. Its either that or wind up the company as they've let almost all their other leases expire and gone with an "eggs in one basket" strategy

    Well, you do know that there's a hefty annual charge on each lease payable to Minister Ryan? And there's not a lot of point hanging on to lesser prospects when it's clear there's no chance Ryan is going to let them progress. His latest decision is quite clearly naked politicking. He commissioned an external report -- obviously to cover his own ass -- which landed on his desk last June, waited until November to deliver a 3-week ultimatum for Barryroe to come up with cash (which they did) and then delayed another half year before issuing this refusal. Larry Goodman's money wasn't even in the offing when his report was commissioned, so it's hard to see how it could have been factored in.

    Ryan relied on a non-binding clause dating from 2019 in DECC's financial guidelines suggesting that a company needs to hold 3.5 times as much in tangible assets as the cost of any work program under an exploration license or petroleum lease. As Barryroe's stock broker pointed out, this stricture has never been a thing before and no small explorer has ever met it, nor ever could.

    Yes, of course Ryan is going to get sued. Lansdowne who are non-Irish will sue him under the ECT. Barryroe will take him to court domestically. They've spent 200 million on offshore exploration and the Barryroe field potentially holds several billion dollars worth of oil and gas. Investors in Barryroe include a pension fund and some very high net worth individuals who have been anticipating a return for more than a decade. They're hardly going to curl up and die when Ryan suggests on a whim -- as he did today -- that they should switch to building wind turbines instead.

    Ryan appeared on The Last Word with Matt Cooper today, May 23rd. You can find it on Today FM's website. (Yes, I do spend quite a bit of time listening to what the Green Party has to say, if only to remind myself how dangerous and viciously evil they are). The segment on Barryroe is part of an hour long "climate emergency special". In fairness Cooper tackles Ryan on items like "Why are Residential Electricity Prices up 51% When Wholesale Prices are Down 40%" (to which Ryan's bungling non-answer is -- obviously -- more windmills please). Since I don't want to make anyone's ears bleed by having to listen to this moron for an hour, including all his favourite climate and energy fabrications, here's a transcript of the Barryroe piece. And yes, I've carefully proof-read it ... if it sounds incoherent it's because Ryan the dribbling idiot has never been capable of string two sentences together:

    Cooper: Well, Gearóid from Ballincollig in Cork wants to know why you're blocking the development of the Barryroe gas field to give us independence from fracked gas coming in from the United States.

    Ryan: I wrote a letter to the developers last week and it was on the back of an assessment that was done by our department of whether they have the financial capabilities or met all the conditions that were set out in the licensing arrangements to be able to progress to the next stage and our assessment was they were not, and I wrote accordingly ...

    Cooper: Sorry, Larry Goodman was financially backing this idea, the Barryroe, are you suggesting Larry Goodman doesn't have the money to do it??

    Ryan: I, the, the, we did an assessment including a lot of independent outside experts to give a very independent and a rigorous view. We did not rush this, it wasn't done on a political basis it was done on a purely rational assessment by the department of whether the project was, was able to meet its conditions as set out in the license agreement, a view clearly and strong advice to me that was, was it wasn't and, and, that's part, that wazzizza said, eh, eh, the decision that ...

    Cooper: Are you likely to face legal action, though, from the minority partners Lansdowne in relation to that, who say that the money is in place, they have a license or they, or sorry, not a license, but that they had been granted the rights to drill before you banned new exploration? This is a potentially very valuable source of gas to replace what we're going to lose in the next few years from Corrib.

    Ryan: Potentially, potentially, there's always, eh, the gas industry and the oil and gas exploration are never certain as to what the outcome is going to be but putting that for aside, what I see the future is, the same companies that have expertise in marine engineering, in exploration, in knowledge of the seabed and so on, that's the expertise we need in what we do know is going to deliver energy in the, particularly in the waters to the south of Cork and Waterford where we have, that'll be the next round of auctions for offshore wind in developing wind in the south and in the west and I think the same capital and the same capability which these companies have in abundance needs to be used in that energy future rather than one we know is coming to an end which we cannot afford as a world to keep exploring and finding fossil fuels.

    Cooper: But we have immediate needs as well and wind energy is not really going to start kicking in from the offshore until about 2030. What about an LPG terminal in Kerry where you have American investors who want to do it very very quickly, a lot of lot of local support, so what's your position now on importing the LPG, eh LNG?

    Ryan: My position is the same as it has always been which is that we should, firstly, we have to, eh, there are climate limits to what we can do and we have to be careful that we don't see a massive expansion in the use of gas to, eh, to meet immediate needs but actually leave us with stranded assets when we have to stop the burning of that gas in the next two to three decades at the latest ...

    ... he then leads off on his next scatty ramble. Even while he's trying to gaslight us that his decision was the result of rigorous assessment, he simply can't help letting drop almost religious tidbits about how explorers should hammer their oil derricks into wind turbines. He honestly seems to be quite oblivious to the fact that it's not about his personal whim -- that he can't rewrite legal agreements just because his socialist face doesn't like the look of a capitalist company's jib. See you in court, Eamo.

    Post edited by ps200306 on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Another excellent reason to walk away from the ECT and let the clock wind down on it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    As you know, that clock winds far to slowly to save Ryan from getting his ass whupped:

    And since Lansdowne is a UK company the 20 year sunset clause cannot be avoided by any coordinated action on intra-EU disputes. Though I can't really see long drawn out ECT arbitration being needed. Ryan's purported reason for turning down a petroleum lease undertaking is so transparently motivated by ideology that a domestic court is likely to laugh in his face. He was already warned in the Dail that he was "exposing the State to a potential massive legal claim for interfering with the company’s legitimate property rights".

    However much Ryan likes to pretend -- as he did in the Cooper interview above, has prevously done with in a Seanad debate, and as you yourself have parotted on this thread in eerily similar language for a non-Green -- that "we have never found oil in commercial quantities", Barryroe has already successfully appraised the field back in 2011/12 and has independently auditing assessments of hydrocarbon volumes. Even if Barryroe recovered its investments to date -- let alone profits foregone on the Barryroe field -- it would be worth ten times its current share price. That gives investors an awful lot of incentive to litigate.

    Post edited by ps200306 on


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Aye that's what I meant by the clock. The sooner we walk away from it the sooner that clause expires.

    As for any legal challenge, well only time will tell as regards outcome but I'm pretty confident.

    Either way, it pushes back any extraction until the 2030's. Any delays just reduce the viability which I have no problem with



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306



    As for any legal challenge, well only time will tell as regards outcome but I'm pretty confident.

    Public losses will be coming out of your pocket not mine (I don't pay any tax), so I guess that's up to you.

    Any delays just reduce the viability which I have no problem with

    ... and by the same token increase the damages for which the State may be liable.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    You're assuming the state would lose, that is unlikely but we'll have to wait and see.

    As I said, a perfect illustration of the insanity of the ECT and further reason to get the hell out of it. Hopefully that decision will come to the cabinet table soon



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,055 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    How do you expect large private consortia to be enthusiastic to bid to provide your wind and ocean energy infrastructure at the required scale, if the nation States that are contracting it are going to back out of the treaty that protects their interest in it over the longer term?

    Hardly sound conditions for multi-billion euro private investment.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Several countries have already announced plans to pull out or have already pulled out and it hasn't impacted any investments as all are progressing various renewable energy schemes with various "private consortia".



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,848 ✭✭✭?Cee?view




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    Having used the TGV myself and seen how good it is, I suspect France is not going to have much of a market left for such domestic flights anyway.



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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,404 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Indeed. The only internal flights left are Kerry and Donegal to Dublin, Donegal certainly won't be replaced with a train service and the Kerry flight remains popular but at 2x flights per day isn't really making an enormous contribution to our emissions.

    A lot more emissions would be reduced if there was opportunity to get to Dublin Airport without having to go by road. For example, if you could get the train from Cork/Limerick to Dublin and then be able to catch a Metro to the airport it would discourage a nice few people from driving I would think. Especially from Kerry and Mayo as they both have rail services but no motorways.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,168 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    If that was introduced here it would make zero impact on our aviation emissions as Kerry and Donegal are a 3.5 hour and unlimited hours respectively

    Looking at a map of France I'm not sure there are 2 airports (or closest cities) within 2.5hrs of each other on a train so questionable if this will have any impact at all even there

    Considering you normally need to get to an airport between 1hr and 40 minutes before departure it doesn't even make sense, timewise, to fly where a train takes 2.5 hours



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    The first time I did Dublin to Shannon I took one look at what taking PT would involve and immediately decided I would fly in via London. Had Dublin-Shannon still had flights taking them would be a no-brainer for me, at least for the return trip.

    Took PT subsequent trips and the crazy thing was the disproportionate amount of time getting the relatively short distance between Shannon and Colbert was. Frustrating it is that last little bit of missing joined-up thinking that makes people resort to driving.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,851 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Will make zero impact in France as most drive over there anyhow !!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    @Red Silurian

    Looking at a map of France I'm not sure there are 2 airports (or closest cities) within 2.5hrs of each other on a train so questionable if this will have any impact at all even there

    That's why it smells strongly of virtue-signalling.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    You're assuming the state would lose, that is unlikely but we'll have to wait and see.

    So you have some insider knowledge on how Ryan arrived at his decision? Interesting.

    As I said, a perfect illustration of the insanity of the ECT and further reason to get the hell out of it. Hopefully that decision will come to the cabinet table soon

    Can have no bearing on this case though.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    So you have some insider knowledge on how Ryan arrived at his decision? Interesting.

    Apples+oranges=bananas

    I have no more knowledge than that which has been reported in the media. Sorry to burst the conspiracy theory bubble

    Can have no bearing on this case though.

    Never said otherwise



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The rate of home upgrades is rapidly growing, in Q1 its up 172% over the same period last year. Still a long way to go to get to the numbers needed but this rate of growth indicates we're on the right track. Lots of indications too that work is being carried out not as a large single chunk to get properties to a B2 rating, but instead for a lot of the work, its a case of doing 1 or 2 upgrades at a time to bring the BER rating up gradually. This makes sense from a financial perspective for households and addresses some of the concerns some folks had here




  • Registered Users Posts: 14,379 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    Eamon Ryan proves he’s no friend of the West


    infrastructure that's desperately needed as there's nothing else forthcoming.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306



    I have no more knowledge than that which has been reported in the media. Sorry to burst the conspiracy theory bubble

    Ah, you mean this, then:

    Ryan: I, the, the, we did an assessment including a lot of independent outside experts to give a very independent and a rigorous view. We did not rush this, it wasn't done on a political basis it was done on a purely rational assessment by the department of whether the project was, was able to meet its conditions as set out in the license agreement, a view clearly and strong advice to me that was, was it wasn't and, and, that's part, that wazzizza said, eh, eh, the decision that ...

    LOL. Yeah, that'll stand up in court alright. Allow me to interpret his incoherent babble: he commissioned a report that he sat on for a year, issued an ultimatum on funds with a three week deadline which was immediately met by Barryroe, and they had actually raised an additional $20m which had to be canned when his outrageous decision dropped. Barryroe had met all required elements of the work programs under previous phases of the license and could expect to progress to a petroleum lease under normal guidelines. Ryan doesn't have a leg to stand on for his nakedly ideological decision and he will certainly lose in court.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,154 ✭✭✭opinionated3


    Always find it amazing that these articles quoting the SEAI never mention the after grant cost to the consumer of these upgrades. Almost like they don't want the public to know how much debt they will be getting themselves into .....



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Kinda depends which upgrades a homeowner goes for does it not



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,384 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ....and costs can probably vary greatly from property to property, but to be fair, works is probably well out of reach for many....



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Thats likely why we're seeing households doing 1 or 2 upgrades rather than a full retrofit. Its how most would do home upgrades normally so I suppose its not surprising to see the same holding true with this



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,848 ✭✭✭?Cee?view


    Good to see a clear and honest appraisal of Ryan, yet sad that it has to come from a relatively small provincial paper. It's incredible what an easy ride the national media gives Ryan.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,168 ✭✭✭Red Silurian




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭ps200306


    Dutch TTF gas prices fell to €24/MWh yesterday. Now, it would be a bit silly to take a single day spot price as "the price of gas". But then the greenies started this silliness by claiming wind was nine times cheaper than gas and then ran with this absurd claim ad nauseam (neglecting to mention it was on the single day of August 26th 2022). Well, the gas price has now fallen by a factor of 14, and the greenie claims about the price of wind never stacked up in Ireland anyway as the ORESS-1 price was a factor of 2.5 higher. Even allowing for the fact that a MWh(e) from CCGT is only 60% of the heating value of the gas, wind is now three times more expensive than gas. And that's ignoring the considerable additional costs to the system of facilitating wind power. Despite calls to do so, the Greens have never come clean about the cost of renewable energy. They're basically a bunch of crooks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,591 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    It may not be positive long term, if you happen to live in some of the dark blue areas on this map. Flooding wide tracks of land leads to a rising water table in these areas and water will find its own level via underground streams. Many buildings have been constructed and fields claimed since the drainage schemes started hundreds of years ago, especially since the foundation of the state, some people will be impacted by this, it will take time to become apparent. Look on the bright side, more habitat available for Mosquitos and midges.

    Speaking of trade-offs, the decline in the curlew population, they don't like nesting near wind turbines, guess where wind turbines are sited. At present I can hear the cuckoo in the evenings, I have not heard the distinctive curlew call for many years



    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,551 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    I was in Athlone last week for the first time in ages. And Athlone is lowlying, with the Shannon and bogs all around. If the water table rises, then the flood plains (some of which are built on) will flood sooner in the year. These plains won't have the same capacity for water which means more flooding further along the river. It makes me wonder about the policy of spendinig millions on flood defences in areas while actively pursuing a policy of flooding more of the country.

    And we all should know that flooding is devastating. Anything that lives on or under the ground is going to be drowned unless they can relocate.

    I won't start on the brain dead policies of not cleaning riverbeds to allow water get to the sea quicker

    Post edited by roosterman71 on


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