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What should be done with projected €65 billion budget surplus?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,358 ✭✭✭Tefral


    And that wouldnt help with the inflation problem we have.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,672 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Build a modern high rise town in Kildare or Meath with an underground to Dublin.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Registered Users Posts: 35,007 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Quiet you with your fiscal responsibility! 😄



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,358 ✭✭✭Tefral


    Ha Ha!!


    And id be the first person if i won 10k to go on a holiday rather than pay it off my Mortgage! :-)



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,124 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    Have you ever checked how much USC you pay each year compared with income tax? Take out your last payslip and have a look at the figures.

    Income tax is easily avoided , USC absolutely cannot be. Its a far fairer and better tax and should be increased if anything, not abolished.

    Income tax is what should be changed to put more money back in the pockets of the squeezed middle.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,646 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    any new rail lines should also include CPOing land way out past the terminus. it's much cheaper to prepare for a line before the land is swamped by development, than to try to build one across developed land.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,962 ✭✭✭amacca


    I'll probably be told how wrong I am and a country isn't a household but I'd be happier if a significant chunk want to pay off any expensive national debt we have and then another significant chunk on capital projects that aren't complete rip offs and then if there are any chunks left, start a rainy day fund....then perhaps a chav/scummer with over say 50 convictions (incredibly that would still yield a very respectable number of interns but we could slowly lower the number) forced labour "rehabilitation" camp on one of the less scenic islands with snipers on the mainland paid a handsome bounty for the heads of any absconders.


    Obviously I wouldn't get elected or anywhere near the levers of power and not just because of my rehabilitation idea.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,124 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    If UBI was introduced I'd expect tax credits would be removed. The 2 basic tax credits we all get amount to €3,550 in 2023. This means nobody pays income tax on the first €17,750 of their income...not 1 cent.

    This works out to €341 of tax free income per week.

    My guess on UBI is that it would be cutting our nose off to spite our face because there's no way we'd get a UBI and a tax free allowance of almost €18k per year.



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    The same thing that has been done with all the money of this much vaunted economy until now.

    ^looks around^

    Ehh, sweet fa?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,358 ✭✭✭Tefral


    You know this 65billion does that include for the 13BN+ interest that the Apple Judgement is due in too? (I know Ireland wont actually get all the 13Bn, but we still are due around 8 or 9 i think)

    If we owe something like 205Bn in national debt, it would be some job to pay off say 70bn of that between the apple money and the 65Bn from FDI....



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  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    I'd be betting that when this song and dance is all done, there'll be a whole lot of that money that never existed in the first place.

    Being serious, Ireland is infamous around the world for its crooked numbers.

    Gdp, anyone?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,358 ✭✭✭Tefral


    Isnt it actually in an Escrow account being managed by the NTMA? as in it actually is being monitored....



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,666 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    build some **** houses



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,358 ✭✭✭Tefral


    That money should come from our central government funds. Which there is a huge fund for already which isnt been met because the reason houses arent built in the volume we need is that theres too many hold ups in the planning system and the viability money wise isnt there....



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭dmakc


    Gardai and prisons



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    I'll believe it when it materialises.

    As said above, over the many years of this barmy economy, I've yet to see anything resembling a benefit.

    Housing?

    Infrastructure?

    Transport?

    Civic projects?

    Construction?

    Staffing?

    Barring the fiasco of the most expensive hospital wing in the world that hasn't been completed, I don't see anything whatsoever.

    I'm looking at this latest magic money as much the same, "its there, for reals, pinky swear".



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,188 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    People keep forgetting when they suggest current expenditure items like social welfare expansion and universal basic income from the exchequer, that this is not reliable income for the long term.

    It is a POSSIBLE future temporary surplus of budgeted income and it can be used in three ways; to pay down debt, to fund capital expenditure or to be banked for future demands, foreseen or unforeseen.

    To my mind the hierarchy should be to a) 50% to pay down debt rather than refinance at our current higher rates b) 40% into sovereign reserve and c) 10% capital infrastructure to fund climate transition and promote further sustainable economic growth (rail, energy, broadband, publicly built housing).

    I say only 10% for capital because firstly we already have a huge capital fund in Project 2040 and secondly we scarcely have the capacity to build all that and without turning into an inflationary monster.

    Besides, basic incomes and the likes are only a disincentive to work and end up in an inflationary spiral to keep up with the additional spend and price increases that it generates. There is more than sufficient of social supports in Ireland without further transferring taxes to unproductive budget headings.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Definitely get rid of the temporary USC. The comments regarding everyone pays might make sense if the rates were not 0.5% on the first 12k and 2% on the next 11k. Yea, I suppose technically everyone pays, but lower earners pay practically nothing. I would much rather that than some supposed "better" services, thanks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 83,373 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    It really took 25 posts for someone to mention a prison!, even though if we think back across the entire history of the message board, the most frequent consternation has always been over a lack of prison space leading to stupidly lenient sentences which would otherwise be unenforceable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    I read a report recently, something to the effect that we are the only country in the world where the majority of the exchequers budget is NOT made up of normal consumerism. Multinational tax receipts constitute the majority of the exchequer.

    When you're an exception of the world economy, you should probably start thinking hard.

    Watch this all end up a phantasm in the end. "We're actually broke, and it's time to start living within our means".



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,715 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Put it in a sovereign wealth fund which is then used to fund capital projects like:

    • New hospitals
    • New Schools
    • New prisons
    • Connected public transport (metro north and dart underground would be a start)
    • Roads with the capacity to allow further housing expansion in the metropolitan areas
    • Electric charging network (the future is personalised electric transport, we should be leaning into this, solar and windfarms everywhere)
    • Upgraded water and electricity infrastructure
    • Planners
    • Judiciary reform
    • Properly subsidised childcare (along with any infrastructure required)

    Don't blow it on welfare and public service wages, the above would generate enough jobs for everyone that can work, have future projects ready to go and paid for by the completed projects that drive economic activity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn



    Latest seems to be from 2021 and corporate taxes have increased since then, there was almost as much paid in PRSI as corporation tax, never mind overall income taxes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    A new primary radar, military jets ,and some extra spending on the defense forces,



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,124 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    The person on €22,920 salary (total of the 2 lowest USC bands) pays €278 in USC this year. They pay €1,034 income tax and €917 PRSI.

    Total tax paid = €2,229, or 9.7%.

    They pay fcuk all and should continue to contribute. If we remove USC we are narrowing our tax base further, and we already rely far too heavily on higher earners and corporations to pay the majority of the annual tax take in Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 83,373 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Ireland isn't strategically significant enough for all that, it's also virtually surrounded by NATO.

    Whereas prison capacity has been discussed ad nauseum for decades now, not just in reaction to a war.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    My main issue with it is that this temporary tax has a rate of 8% above 70k. Which brings the top tax rate to 52%, for me anything above 50% is stealing, especially when you take the rubbish services into account. Anywhere else with tax rates like that and you would have a decent state pension (not the one size fits all rubbish we have), a decent health service (where you don't pay for doctors and dentists) etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    I can't remember exactly which numbers were being compared, can't pinpoint the report now. It was recent though, as in this year.

    But regardless of the minutiae, its a badly kept secret that Irelands "economy" is crooked as all hell.

    For those writing out wish lists like a letter to santa claus, ask yourselves why none of those things have happened already.

    There has never been more money, yet the absence of money has never been more noticeable.

    It doesn't add up. And I'll say it again, it probably won't add up when it's all said and done either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,124 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    In your first comment your issue was that low earners don't pay enough USC. Now you say high earners pay too much. Is this Goldilocks? What amount would be just right?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    With all due respect, that's all very vague, a bloke down the pub told me something sort of thing.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    I would rather it is removed because it affects the amount I take home by a lot. The argument that lower earners also pay can be disregarded given the low rate, from my point of view.



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