Russia - threadbanned users in OP

Putin has created thousands of evil humanoids to kill anyone who questions his authority.

The soldiers on the front are scared sure deservedly.

But the real evils IMHO are the ones thousands of miles away arming and firing missiles at innocent civilian targets and supposedly living in similar, hell even having relatives there.

For Russia, Hospitals are one of their primary target's because it prevents injured soldiers being treated and their lives saved. It also helps to demoralizes the Citizens, which is also part of the plan.

So you actually want to engage in whataboutism and not debate. Nice to hear you admit that although I already knew it.

So lets get back to debate. You describe those terms as draconian. Why? Almost all of those points would be to the benefit of the Russian people. Do you agree or not? If not please point out why they would not.

Sure he was. It was a time of East -West raproachment and co -operation. The communist bogyman was receding into the past, and the future looked brighter than it had in years. So Yes, Putin was feted and proclaimed as a welcome addition to the capitalistic world. And they were prepared to give him a chance. They were the right steps to take back then.

Lets not debate. Let them release few more true colors and mods will move them to recycle bin quickly enough.

The Russian Federation has chosen, in the 21st Century, to engage in a War of Annialation with their neighbour with the clear goal to eliminate and replace anyone deemed undesirable. The actions of their troops have underlined their attitude towards the civilain population. This is not just an opinon, this is a grim proven fact that will resurface with the bones of Russia's victims for years to come. Their punishment should fit that crime.

@paul71 Wrote up a pretty good set of terms. I damn near go further and demand that Putin & Co be handed to Kyiv for trail and that Kaliningrad be handed to Ukraine as part of their compensation (much like how Russia got it in the first place).

Paul's terms are suitably tough for a nation that has behaved like Nazi Germany, but it is a good place to negotiate down from. The restoration of Ukraine's borders and the ouster of Putin would make for a good minimum. The Russians have done a good job demilitarizing themselves, but some form of monitoring would be wise.

Ok, lets talk peace...

Because they are going to lose this war they set out on and the losing side takes a big hit. The 'west' stood back too long and the boil needs to be lanced. I'm sure we all would like to get back to a situation where Russians are considered a civilised people and friendly relations can be restored but as of now, they are pariahs and terrorists.

Your friends are already in the war with NATO, they keep saying this for a year now.

And to reverse your own question - do you honestly believe ruZZians can not be beaten by Ukrainians? If you do, then there is a word to describe you (which can not be used here unfortunately).

150km exclusion is a perfect way to avoid future wars, no-one is/ever has been/ever will be stupid enough to attack a nuclear armed nation. Russia can retain its nuclear deterrent after given 50% to Ukraine.

Do I beleive Ukraine can defeat Russia, they are doing a great job of it prior to the arrival of the serious equipment from NATO by sinking their flagship in the Black Sea, destroying and driving away most of an enormous armoured column away from Kiev and mopping up the elements of that column back to Belarus. Destroying Russia forces in Karkiv and liberating the entire Oblast. Recapturing Kerson, draining the Russian army of 100k casualties in exchange for the capture of town of the importance Tuam. Casterating the Russia airforce. All before any modern air defence or armour from NATO arrived. So yes Ukraine are ripping a whole in the Russian army to the point where Russia will need assistance in 20 years to defend against its real treat, China.

Lastly, you are reported because you can engage in debate and called me a lunatic.

The simple fact is you have nothing Lionel, you cannot debate because you will not use reason. You are an apologist for a despicable regime, and you have no desire to see a better future for the Russian people, never mind a better future for their unfortunate neighbours.

@paul71

Also suggesting that your 13 points were "insane".

What exactly is "insane" about Point 9: The restoration of Ukraine's internationally recognised pre-2014 borders? Is it "insane" for a nation's sovereignty to be respected...or is it only "insane" when Moscow gets grabby and wants bits of those nations for itself?

Point 9 is the basis of the UN charter. It is also the basis of all peace in Europe since 1945. Not is it just reasonable, it is fundemental to peace on the entire planet.

Sure why not let Austria have a go at Italy for the Tirol, Italy have a go at France for Nice, Germany have a go at France for Stasbourg, Ireland have a go at the UK for Newry, Uk have a go at Ireland for Clones, Poland have a pop at Belarus for its lost 1945 lands and Finland invade the Karelia.

Honestly Mick and Claires Lackeys just to not engage in the most simplistic analysis.