Madeleine McCann

None of that is true or evidence based.

Yes the person who took her is obviously the main reason. I doubt anyone disputes that.

However, the parents gifted the opportunity by leaving her unattended in an unlocked apartment while they went out.

She doesn’t get abducted if they are at home with her. She might not get abducted if the apartment is locked.

Are you saying the parents are without any responsibility in how things turned out?

It's that simple? Only one victim.

Her parents are victims. I can guarantee you they have suffered, they lost a child.

Her siblings are victims.

Her grandparents are victims

Her uncles and aunts are victims

Her creche buddies are victims. But your misguided posts concentrate on the parents who's negligence is criminally minuscule in comparison to the perverted murderer. Your blasé posts are classic virtuous, keyboard warrior & lazy victim blaming similar to that of the Portuguese police that shifted the blame from the actual criminal to protect their skin in the holiday game.

I'm in the "the murderer is to blame" camp.

It's not enjoyable, it's awful, I've kids the same age as Madeleine McCann when she was murdered, I've kids that are nearly the same age as she would be now if she had lived.

You're in the bizarre internet "the parents are to blame" camp and that's your prerogative. Not much point in arguing with you, I predict you're going to dig your heels in now and ignore the fact that someone took that girl and murdered her.

I've remonstrated with your thank-garnering smug insensitive posts. Not you.

I’m glad you don’t think they are without any responsibility for how things turned out.

The 2020 comments by the German public prosecutor Wolters….When asked whether there was any material evidence that Madeleine , is dead, Wolters replied: “Yes.”

not… “ it’s our belief she is dead “ not “ the likelihood from our investigation is that she is probably dead “

Not only that, there is “ material evidence “ Madeleine is dead… I wonder were there photos that showed that…?

the article says that Wolters refuses to elaborate…. I wonder why ? If they did find photos of her dead body… is the responsible thing not to make the family aware… if the family are aware ?

why is the ‘ find Madeleine’ charity and website still operating, still requesting donations, still with the following explicit goals…from said site… http://www.findmadeleine.com/support/index.html

• To secure the safe return to her family of Madeleine McCann who was abducted in Praia da Luz, Portugal on Thursday 3rd May 2007;
• To procure that Madeleine's abduction is thoroughly investigated and that her abductors, as well as those who played or play any part in assisting them, are identified and brought to justice; and
• To provide support, including financial assistance, to Madeleine's family.
• If the above objects are fulfilled then the objects of the Foundation shall be to pursue such purposes in similar cases arising in the United Kingdom, Portugal or elsewhere.

Donations can be made to the fund through the following channel…

It’s beyond tragic, it’s beyond very very strange also… McCanns seeking £££££££ help…. Prosecutor “ material evidence she’s dead “… but we won’t tell you what evidence…. Wolters is a guy, late 40’s to early 50’s….

whole case is as bizarre as it is tragic.

Both scenarios are a case of victim blaming, and people who choose to focus on the actions of the victim for what happened to them, and not the person who victimised them are in the wrong.

I did not mean criminally negligent in the literal sense of the term although I think the McCann's and their friends would be deserving of charges of child neglect being brought against them, if it were possible. It was an act of gross irresponsibility to say the least.

This is a semantic argument you're going into as everyone knows the McCann parents are also victims in this. The point is very clear: when someone is hurt by the actions of a criminal, it is the criminal who is liable, and people who get into the decisions made by the victim to give the opportunity are quite badly missing the point.

Your gas. Still obsessing on the parents and ignoring the fact that someone abducted her and most likely killed her.

Again a false linking of any criticism of the McCanns to being part of a conspiracy.

That may be the mad ideas of some but others have the cop on to realise they obviously didn't conspire to have their daughter taken.

But through utter stupidity they made it incredibly easy for whoever it was to be able to take her in great comfort knowing it was risk free.

They didnt have any master plan to be rid of her, but they made the decision to prioritise a night out over the safety of their child.

I was agreeing with you about the "woe is parents" nonsense.

In relation to Wolters, think I saw somewhere that the German system is set up such that evidence is only released at trial - i.e. he's not allowed to say what evidence he has until someone is charged.

I would have to agree with John_Rambo on his comment. Seems like a personal witch-hunt from your posts.

If a friend of yours had gold ingots stolen from their home due to them accidentally leaving the door unlocked - would you continue to berate them for years upon years afterward or at some point would you have some sympathy and maybe direct your anger towards the thief who actually stole them?

There has to be a point where people actually have sympathy for two people who lost their child, more than likely to a murdering rapist. The extra horror of knowing you could have been there to stop the person is unimaginable.

I think you've clearly labeled yourself as a victim blamer with an unnatural persecution for the McCanns. A pure warrior.

Of course it's not okay to leave three young children unsupervised for that length of time. nobody is saying it is, you're actually not arguing against anyone but yourself.

If you are making a statement about people being apologists then a link to an apologist statement would be great. There's a quote function after all. Otherwise you are just making unfounded statements.

You cant just tell someone to go back and read through 4,500 posts to try to find something that you may deem to be apologist. That's ridiculous.

Regarding it being criminal, I agree. I don't think the punishment for it though is to have your child murdered by a rapist. Therefore I still see The McCanns as being victims of a crime.

(this is all based on their story being true mind you!)

If you are going to challenge someone on a statement its best you at least read a bit. Id advise against calling out posters for unfounded statements if you are unwilling to leaf back through a few pages of a thread to fact check me.

On desktop from pages 146-150 there are plenty of comments suggesting leaving the kids unattended was the done thing for instance.

Regarding your comment re punishment - its speculation, nobody knows what actually happened.

I don't think I should stop while people are laying into the parents in this way. You say it's criminal negligence and yet they've never been prosecuted. If it's happened to others, why not them? Some people will add 2+2 and get 5, it seems.

As to your ingots analogy, yes I would, for a very simple reason. A person is not supposed to enter your apartment without permission, unlocked or not and steal your belongings, and if they do, they are criminally liable. Simple enough, really. That's common sense.

A good reason why the McCanns would not be done for criminal negligence is that the instance of a possible paedophile stalking you and watching your movements from the shadows waiting for a moment to steal your child not even on the street but from your apartment you're sitting 55 metres direct distance from would be considered so unusual as to be force majeure. Removing this from the equation, Madeleine is almost certainly fine, and she had been in her bed at the time of her abduction. The judge would therefore rule that it was the abductor who is the reason why Madeleine is missing. Some more common sense for you.

I'm prepared to drop the topic if those talking in circles about the parents are willing to drop that line of rhetoric. How about that?

"A person is not supposed to enter your apartment wothout permission" is an adorable viewpoint for a child.

An adult should know better.

There doesn’t have to be only one person responsible for this. Nothing is ever that black and white.

The person who took Madeleine is obviously most responsible.

The parents made it possible by not looking after their children that night.

Should they be charged for neglect? No, they’ve had the worst punishment possible.

Saying other people are talking in circles?

Have you read through the stuff you’ve posted to try and absolve the parents of any responsibility over what happened that night.

Some highlights:

Saying it was the done thing in the 80s to leave children unsupervised.

Comparing it to another crime that the scenario wasn’t comparable at all.

Constantly referencing across the pool like it was a private locked villa.

What are you even talking about at this point?