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Enoch Burke turns up to school again despite sacking - read OP before posting

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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,772 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Burke clearly isn't hanging around the school to get a gander at the kids in the manner of Mr. J. Saville or Mr. R. Harris or Mr. G. Glitter. Burke is no danger to the kids in that way. A gobshyte standing in the cold and rain protesting about what pronouns God says is right and wrongis nothing more than a talking point for the likes of us and other parents but it doesn't really bother most people from a safeguarding point of view.

    Burke is viewed more as an oddity rather than a danger to kids.



  • Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    But what is he protesting, exactly?

    His lawful dismissal?

    That trans people exist?

    That his religious beliefs should allow him to ignore a student's rights?

    The civil liberties people should be interested in him, alright. But not for his right to protest.

    (I'd still love to know why he decided to raise his objections about the student in May 2022, but not about the previous student in December 2021).



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,058 ✭✭✭afatbollix


    He is along way past public land. He is standing by the front door, From the photos I've seen he's pretty much looking in the window.





  • Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    A High Court Justice was of the view that there was a clear trespass. Hence the €15k fine he imposed on Burke for it.

    As for causing fear - the staff had expressed that the were worried about how he would conduct himself in the school in future. As noted by Justice Owens:

    There were serious concerns expressed about how Mr Burke might act towards the student in question as well as the student body, and he had a case to answer to the school's board, the judge said.

    I think if I was a non-binary or trans student at WHS (and we know there are more than one) then I would not want to come into contact with Burke. Some may even be fearful. Which may seem strange to us grown adults, but put yourself in the shoes of a teenager having to face a teacher like Burke, and him being in a position of authority over you.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,772 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    When was that photo taken? That wasn't taken this week or last week. He's wearing a hat and gloves so I'm going to say that it probably is an old photo taken during the winter given the weather we've had recently.

    Edit. Just did a search. That photo was taken either in January 2023 or before it. It appeared in the Journal and the Irish Post on Jan 27th 2023.

    It's clear that he did trespass in the past, that's not up for question but I haven't heard any reports that he entered the school gates for a good while now. And I haven't heard of the Gardai arresting him or removing him from the school grounds in a long time. Maybe they have and I haven't heard about it.

    If it's a recent photo, I would support the school calling the Gardai every time he trespasses as there's an injunction against him trespassing on school grounds. Trespass on school grounds = 100% illegal = arrest him = prosecute him and potentially jail him. Protest in a public place = legal = difficult to do anything against him.

    Even if he continues to stay outside the school gate in a (possibly) public place, he'll eventually wind up before the courts for his contempt of court and the refusal to purge his contempt. I'm going to do a Mystic Meg prediction here and predict that Mountjoy or Castlebar Jail will appear in his near to mid future for that.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,451 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    That is from when he started doing his sideshow. Since then he has been at the gate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,438 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus




  • Registered Users Posts: 10,353 ✭✭✭✭thesandeman


    "Even if he continues to stay outside the school gate in a (possibly) public place, he'll eventually wind up before the courts for his contempt of court and the refusal to purge his contempt. I'm going to do a Mystic Meg prediction here and predict that Mountjoy or Castlebar Jail will appear in his near to mid future for that."


    Unfortunately he and his siblings were brought up in a Castlebar jail. That's why they're all f*cked up.

    He may end up in nearby Castlerea jail though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,066 ✭✭✭Hangdogroad


    Is this gobshite still turning up at the school every day?



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Just in case anyone is looking for a job




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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,484 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    Looking at his behaviour in front of the kids and courts already, it is clear he has anger issues. He is unpredictable and could be a danger to the kids.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,450 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Get the media to start describing him as "a single fighting age male" and they'll be all over it I'm sure..



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,772 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Yes, there was clear trespass in the early days. He was fined for the trespassing for entering the school to engate in a stand/sit-in while he was suspended. He was arrested and taken away from the school so that's what the fine is in relation to. It's not in relation to him standing outside of the gate as he was never arrested for that. He was only arrested for being inside the school itself. It's interesting to note that he has never been arrested while standing outside of the school gate. That leads me to believe that it might not be trespassing if he's standing there. If standing outside of the school gate was considered trespassing, I'd wonder why he hasn't been arrested for standing there?

    Regarding the causing fear issue, I think the quote by Justice Owens is now a little outdated. The Judge had a point when Burke was a teacher in the school (the quote was made while Burke was on suspension from the school) but Burke can't act in any way towards the student as he's no longer a teacher there (and unlikely to be a teacher anywhere else either). Burke now doesn't have much interaction with the student body. They just see him as they pass in and out of the school. And correct me if I'm wrong, but there's been no reports of him acting inappropriately towards students as they pass in and out of the school......no reports of threats, shouting, harassment etc.

    Burke also has no case to answer to the school's board as he's no longer employed there to that aspect of the quote is certainly outdated.

    I do agree with you that if I was a non-binary or trans student at WHS, I would not want to come in contact with Burke. But that's not an issue now as he is no longer a teacher in the school. That said, even when he was employed in the school and during his protests outside of the school gate, there are no reports of him ever acting inappropriately, threatening, shouting at or harassing students. Burke will more than likely never have a position of authority (teacher) over teenagers any more unless he acts as a private tutor. But I can't see him taking on a trans/non-binary teen to teach so that's not really an issue any more.



  • Registered Users Posts: 51,758 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    I don't know what he's still protesting about as the entire family seem to be completely bonkers. I only know that the CL will say he is entitled to protest and protect his right to do so within the law as long as he stays outside the school and doesn't trespass.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,772 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Realistically, is he likely to be any more of a danger to kids than you or I?

    He's passed all safeguarding checks. If he didn't pass those, he wouldn't be allowed to teach kids. He's never once been accused of acting inappropriately towards kids. Never. There are no reports of him sexually assaulting any kids, being violent towards kids, threatening kids, harassing kids etc. Zero. He's always behaved appropriately towards kids.

    It's always been adults that he's been a d1ckhead towards, and then it was pretty much only shouting. I know it's reported that he followed the principal shouting at her but it's interesting to note that there are no reports of him threatening her, shouting profanities at her etc. He's a non-violent character who has a problem calling people by their chosen pronoun. I don't see how that makes him a threat to kids, especially now that he is an unemployed teacher and doesn't have a position of power over a classroom any more.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,347 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    This is info about picketing (which is essentially what he is doing), but presumably this is superseded by whatever the courts say. Basically though he is apparently not committing an offence by standing there, except that the court has told him not to.



  • Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭archermoo


    To the best of my knowledge he has never stated that he is protesting. Every time I've seen him asked why he is showing up to the school his response has been "to teach".



  • Registered Users Posts: 51,758 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    So basically he believes still that he was unfairly dismissed from his job??

    The courts have rejected his claims and he's not taking their ruling seriously if he's still there. I don't see him remaining much longer as the penny must have dropped at this stage. He's just there to be annoying but surely even his willpower will wane sooner than later.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,347 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    I don't think so, he is so inflexible, unimaginative, lacking in original though that now he has established a routine he will not deviate from it, unless maybe Mammy tells him to or he is in jail. Though being in jail is much the same thing as standing outside the school in terms of things he feels he has to do.



  • Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭archermoo


    From what I can tell he does not accept that he has been dismissed. I would be greatly surprised if he stops showing up before the end of term.

    The question remains as to whether he will start showing up again next term. I would not be at all surprised if he did. He has shown no ability thus far to engage with reality. I don't have any real expectation that that will change any time soon.



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  • Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Except there is an injuction ordering him to stay away from WHS.

    I think it was Justice O'Moore who asked WHS to prepare a list of the dates he showed up at the school, so obviously him standing at the gates is an issue.

    On why he has not been arrested for standing there - I personally think WHS have been advised to play the long game, and that calling the Gardai and having him arrested every day he shows up would only feed into his crazy and his attempt at making himself out to be the victim here.

    So they leave him standing there, while allowing the law take it's slow and winding course. All while he racks up another €700 a day for every day he remains in contempt of the injuction ordering him to stay away. As someone mentioned above, once the various hearings / appeals have all been exhausted, it will be a different landscape.

    I disagree with you about the fear issue being outdated. It has now gone beyond just WHS. The level of aggression towards non-binary / trans people has escalated and here in Ireland, I believe EB's case has helped feed into this. You only have to look at the people who express their support for him on the bird app to see it. Trans and non-binary people have very legitimate reasons to fear people like EB.

    It's because of people like him, that we have incidences like what happened to that child in Navan two weeks ago.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,450 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    This is it exactly - He simply refuses to recognise that any of the things that have happened are valid.

    In his mind , he has done nothing wrong and so none of the subsequent sanctions and penalties are valid.

    So for Enoch , he still has his job and if only everyone just accepted that he could just go back to teaching as is nothing ever happened.



  • Registered Users Posts: 527 ✭✭✭Baba Yaga


    he cant be quite right in the head...hope the mammy gave him a hat and told him to put on some sun cream in this weather..


    "They gave me an impossible task,one which they said I wouldnt return from...."

    ps wheres my free,fancy rte flip-flops...?



  • Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I don't know why, but your post made me think of the timewarp!

    ♪ With a bit of a mind flip

    You're into the time slip

    And nothing can ever be the same

    You're spaced out on sensation

    Like you're under sedation

    Let's do the Time Warp again

    Let's do the Time Warp again ♪

    Something I'm sure Enoch would heartily disapprove of.



  • Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I presume the safeguarding checks took place at the time he was offered a job - 2018.

    I do wonder would he pass them again now, given his now known pattern of behaviour, both at a school event, (some of it in front of students) and in public, in front of various Courts.

    I do think he would need to undergo a psychological assessment, at the very least.

    I personally thought the way he showed up at both Niamh McShane and John Rogers homes to deliver subpoenas the week before the trial started was kind of threatening. Itimidating, even.

    He showed up at JR's home at 10:50pm at night, and questioned his wife as to JR's whereabouts.

    Niamh McShane left WHS and moved back home to Cork last summer to take up a new position - so did EB actually travel all the way from Mayo to Cork to show up at her home ?!?

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,329 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock



    Those safeguarding checks are just for actual attacks on children and criminal offenses. I'd imagine minor offenses wouldn't disqualify someone (could be wrong) - that said, I've no idea what happens bar criminal record checks.

    Plenty of people who hold similar view to Enoch are in education employment (having probably learnt to either keep their mouth shut, or in a more conservative school environment where the issue would never arise).

    He should quietly hand in his resignation at this point and save face. Save him the hassle of coming back next year.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,413 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail




  • Registered Users Posts: 33,329 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    He can send a letter of resignation, sure.

    In his head, he won't have been sacked and he won't need to keep showing up every day.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I think getting Enoch to do that would require a miracle.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,329 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Yeah, but at some point he's going to want an out. Might trake a few years, but...

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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