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Teaching about Gender

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,400 ✭✭✭am_zarathustra


    You may have a selective group of parents there or your own opinions are so extreme people are uncomfortable disagreeing with it in public. Most parents recognize the obviousness of the fact trans people exist and are actually great thankfully.

    Again I know dozens of schools personally where this is taught currently. No real issues. Vapes are a curse though if you want to talk actual issues in schools. Are you involved in education?

    Alao the science has been extensively discussed earlier in this thread. If you wish to discuss science the minimum entry to the discussion is one peer reviewed article with no obvious caveats in a decent journal backing your opinion. Otherwise you are not talking science either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    No one in this thread is denying the existence of trans people yet you keep repeating that over and over why?

    There is no discussion to be had in regards to the science, and I would seriously be concerned if you tried to argue otherwise. There are 2 genders and your assigned one is never a "mistake" end of story.

    Now people are entitled to believe how they will and do what they will with there own bodies and that should be respected i have no issue with trans people and what they believe, even though I completely disagree with there beliefs I still try respect that this is there beliefs and leave them alone.

    Now since I respect there beliefs and view point and leave them alone I demand the same in return.

    In short you are trying to force trans beliefs on to people and there children and pass them as fact and "education", when people simply don't agree with it or want it. Its done solely for the benefit of trans people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,448 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    Perhaps you didn't read my post correctly....the reality is that some people believe they were born into the wrong body and they can legally change their gender. That's reality. Just because you don't like it, it's there, it's fact and it's reality.

    No need to hide reality from the kiddos, they get enough lies from parents.



  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭sonar44



    It is a lie to teach that anyone is born in the wrong body or that anyone can actually change sex.

    It's fine to tell children some people believe this but it is no less valid to teach them that some people believe they are reincarnated, aliens or possessed by spirits.

    It's just a discussion. Something more important is bound to come along.



  • Registered Users Posts: 342 ✭✭briangriffin


    If im trasnphobic you are idiotic and that's proven in every post you've made so far. You ask for evidence of desistance I provide it and you say I cherry picked the study.

    I'm sure as hell not going to listen to someone who has no knowledge of basic child psychology and safeguarding. You asked for evidence of social contagion with trans children 21% of Gen Z in te US now identify as LGBT if that percentage increases at the same rate as it has in the past 4 generations we won't have to worry about climate change because we will literally all be LGBT and the human race will become extinct. The absolut nonsense that is be bandied about here as fact is beyond ridiculous a 6 year old came out as non binary?? Pull the other one had the family a vegan dog too? Or a two spirit cat?

    I asked the question is a girl who plays football trans because in her Ted talk susie green the head of Mermaids said that her biological son always liked playing with dolls and dresses as a child and used this as an indicator he was trans... do I beleive girls who play football are trans no I don't what an idiotic suggestion I coach camogie and girls football I have daughters. I'm not a clueless ideologue who has two trans friends.

    I gave you a long term study on desistance and all you have countered nothing other than to say that's transphobic. Science is transphobic is it?? You've proven nothing other than how entrenched you are and how everything you disagree with is transphobic.

    If you had a child of your own you would be aware of the insanity of teaching irrelevant unproven ideological nonsense to them. The gender unicorn is taught in the US and in schools in the UK. Why is it a gender unicorn? Who is that suppose to appeal to would you say? Would it be the huge numbers of girls transitioning in the past decade? And this is the issue if teaching about trans people meant you mention in passing about transpeople existing then sure I'd have no problem with that but teaching children that their gender may not align with their sex observed at birth is an ideological viewpoint its not fact and shouldn't be taught to children.



  • Registered Users Posts: 342 ✭✭briangriffin


    What you just said there is hate speech and is transhopic nobody is born in the wrong body isn't that right Princess.

    Santa and the tooth fairy don't teach kids they are born in the wrong body. Lets not lie to our kids about important things.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,680 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Again - the first point is settled, the second isn't challenged.

    So, if, according to you, I've no frame of reference because I don't have a kid (despite having WAY more experience with actual, real transpeople than you - funny how that's not important....) - why are you arguing with me?

    What do you think you're going to learn from me that's going to improve your understanding of the issue? Nothing? Then why you even doing it in the first place, if not to learn something new?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 342 ✭✭briangriffin


    I would have hoped you'd have brought some sort of cogent argument of facts to back up your opinions, you haven't. I asked you why there is such an explosion in trans identifying youth in the past decade you rejected the change in gender medicine which resulted in gender affirming care being the rule not the exception, you rejected social media and peer contagion, you rejected what the head of the childrens gender affirming clinician the UK said about not knowing what impact puberty has on gender dysphoria. You rejected the long term study which had 89% of trans children desisting, you've learned nothing other than trans adults are trans adults. Children on the other hand are far more likely to desist if left alone if not affirmed. Education in the form of the gender unicorn promotes the idea of being trans of being uniquely special and it targets the most vulnerable of children as studies have proven its those with ASD and mental health comorbidites are most easily influenced. That's not transphobic for me to say that's proven by whistleblowers and investigations into trans care. I've referenced studies where up to 90% of children in them have had Asd or mental health comorbidites. I frankly couldn't give a toss what you beleive just stop peddling your nonsense as fact when it is not fact. More people need to speak up its about time the adults in the room stood up for their children.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,277 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Not sure of the value of yet another thread on this, particularly since it is veering in to a general discussion (accompanied by the usual offensive comments) and not one based on curriculum or syllabus.

    Any teachers wish to comment on teaching related matters to do with teaching about gender, please do. Anyone coming to bash or deny the existence of trans people, jog on.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    Perhaps you read my post wrong,

    What you're saying is factually incorrect, it has no basis in science and is a social construct completely made up.

    There are only 2 genders and they are never mistaken, this is a biological fact.

    It's an insurmountable fact, they can have as many surgery's as they like but a man will never be a woman and vice versa, ever, no matter what law is passed it's physically impossible.

    So when you say you want to educate people on it you have to stick to fact otherwise you are lying.

    And that reality is what my kids will be told that what they are saying isn't based in fact or truth. No need to lie to the kids and tell them a man can be a woman when it's simply a lie or that gender mix up happens.

    They will then to be told to treat these people with respect regardless, but to be careful of ideologies especially ones that aren't based in reality or truth.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,600 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    It makes me laugh that you’ve deluded yourself into believing that you’re a spokesperson for everyone, along with your other delusions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,600 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Handicaps? And you’re pretending to be the great defender of people with disabilities?

    At least show some basic respect in the terminology you use. Words matter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 342 ✭✭briangriffin


    The debate being had is the merit in teaching gender ideology to children and what exactly that should entail when the change in approach gender affirming care is an experimental one and is being abandoned in Finland the Netherlands and Sweden because of a lack of evidence of long term benefit. This model of care is the one that is advocated for by TENI and Belong to irelands 2 most prominent trans advisory groups. These groups have by their own acknowledgement been in consultation with the NCCA about what the new curriculum contains. So their approach which even the UK is begining to abandon is underpinning the new curriculum. As a parent and a teacher I'm saying that we should be very careful about what is thought about gender ideolgy to children when social media contagion peer contagion and the fact in previous long term studies up to 90% of children with gender dysphoria have desisted. This is called basic child safeguarding. If on the other hand a line used that trans people exist and we should treat them with respect is inserted into the curriculum I will have no problem with that but I highly doubt that will be the case given the ideological stance of the above mentioned charities. It's not transphobic despite what some posters are claiming and accusing me of to have concerns about the above and as I have pointed out those with skin in the game ie parents are the ones who will be most affected by this as will their children.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,400 ✭✭✭am_zarathustra


    There is an entire discussion about karyotyping earlier in this thread and a bunch of studies saying otherwise, again linked earlier in the study. Gender and biological sex are a lot messier than people like but that's the reality. The hysteria around this is baffling.

    Another thing worth noting is I've seen the effect of people transitioning late in life, the confusion for their kids, partners, families, it would certainly have been easier had they been allowed to explore this earlier and saved a lot of people a lot of pain.



  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭sonar44


    Are you not familiar with use of analogies in language or is this just a variant of the usual ‘no debate’ sideshow, wheeled out when things get a little too real for the fantasists?


    Also, I am not here as a ‘great defender’ of anyone including myself. This is a topical discussion, not a crusade. Feel free to prove me wrong or point out flaws in my logic. Language policing will be ignored.

    Post edited by sonar44 on

    It's just a discussion. Something more important is bound to come along.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 475 ✭✭delusiondestroyer


    That's all horse **** every last bit of it.

    Show me one credible UNBIASED scientist that believes there is multiple genders and that people are born as the wrong gender show me evidence to back this.

    It's very simple and it's absolute fact there are two genders and they are never mistaken.

    People then decided they want to be a woman but it's in no ways natural or biological it is literally a social construct and a conscious decision.

    What a load of utter tripe to say otherwise.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,277 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Ok that's enough.

    I have better things to do than follow up reports on this. PLENTY other threads on boards saying the same thing.

    Thread closed.



This discussion has been closed.
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