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Your New WHS Index

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  • Registered Users Posts: 589 ✭✭✭bakerbhoy


    No issue at all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,000 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    Yes



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭OEP


    We've had three weekends of counting comps, and these are the handicaps of the top 3 in each comp:

    4,4,10; 2,24,4; 2,17 0; 4,8,1; 21,12,3; 3,2,15



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,262 ✭✭✭slingerz


    I’ve gone up a lot recently but my index is not the sum of my best 8 differentials divided by 8

    its obviously the soft/hard cap but how do they work themselves out



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭gypsy79


    Lets say your low index is 10

    Now, lets say that the average of best 8 scores is 14.2

    So the soft cap kicks in at 10+3 = 13

    So index would be 13 + (14.2-13)*50% = 13.6



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,262 ✭✭✭slingerz


    When would it correct itself then? It’s more the hard cap that I’m coming into contact with as well



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,000 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    If you can think of it like an excel formula

    its asking to look for the lowest 8 SD in last 20

    it then looks at the return and compares against lowest on record

    if the return is less than a 3 shot difference, it will just use that as your HI

    if it is greater than 3, it will recalculate accordingly.

    it will redo this after every round



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,090 ✭✭✭billy3sheets


    One of the bad things about the soft cap is that it slows the decrease in HI the same way as it slows an increase.

    So, using the example above:

    lets say you have a good round that makes the average of best 8 scores 14.0

    So index would be 13 + (14.0-13)*50% = 13.5

    Instead of a 0.2 drop, it's just 0.1.

    Also, your Low Index is your lowest in the last 12 months.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,883 ✭✭✭Russman


    Just wondering, does anyone know how scores are calculated if you've come in early ?

    To set the scene, a few weeks ago, before the good weather, we came in after 11 holes in a downpour one Sunday, and entered our scores, using the "did not play hole" option for the last 7 holes. Anyway there are full 18 holes scores entered on our records, which nobody has an issue with whatsoever, we're just curious as to how the scores are actually calculated. Is it automated ? is it a committee decision ? etc.

    I was given a few pars and a bogey for the 7 holes unplayed (the overall score matched my round from the day before), one guy was given 9 on each of the remaining holes and one was given a score that, other than reducing his index a tiny bit, doesn't seem to have any "method" about it at all. Like I say, none of us care that this happened, just curious as to the "how" behind it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,012 ✭✭✭paulos53


    You should have been given a nett bogey on the 12th hole and net pars on the remaining holes. i.e. The equivalent of 1 stableford point on the 12th and 2 points on each of the remaining holes



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  • Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭zocklie


    So if I'm magically 6up after 9, I should just walk in? Or is it a NR ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,883 ✭✭✭Russman


    Thanks for that, looking through the scores, that's exactly what happened. Cheers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,362 ✭✭✭✭Rikand


    You should play the back 9 and try get to 12up!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,597 ✭✭✭newport2


    Thanks for that, interesting. I assumed it would be a net double bogey for each hole not played.

    So if someone has 24 points on the front 9 and walks in, they are given 17 points for their back 9 without playing it? 41 points that their differential is then calculated against. I don't really see the logic in that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,573 ✭✭✭spacecoyote


    Think there is a distinction in the score entry system.

    If you select didn't score, it'll be the net double.

    If you select didn't play, the outcome will be in line with Paulos post.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,012 ✭✭✭paulos53


    You have to have played at least 10 holes for this handicap adjustment to kick in. Also the adjustment is slightly different when playing 10 to 13 holes versus playing 14-17 holes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,012 ✭✭✭paulos53


    "So if someone has 24 points on the front 9 and walks in, they are given 17 points for their back 9 without playing it? 41 points that their differential is then calculated against. I don't really see the logic in that."


    That is how 9 hole rounds work. 17 points are added to make up an 18 hole score. The slight quirk as is that the same 9 holes are used for both 9s.

    I think UK & Ireland are the only countries using this system for 9 hole scores. Every other country waits for a second 9 hole score to be returned and then they are combined to make up an 18 hole score.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭gypsy79


    But our system has the added bonus for our links courses that they can shorten rounds to 12/14 holes in winter



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,229 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    I think @newport2 's angle was more from a competition point of view rather than handicap perspective.

    From a handicap perspective, it makes sense. But if I had 15 great holes, could I decide "to bank" whatever points the system gives me for the final 3 holes to close out a winning score in a comp?

    I would hope that isn't the case. 16 & 17 are generally know as card wreckers in our place, would hate to think that people could make a decision not to play them and 18 to finish decent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,910 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark




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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,229 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    Oh if this was commonly known and if guys were allowed to win a comp by doing it, I would put money on it being done!



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,000 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    this is a wind up surely?

    WHS makes handicap adjustments all the time

    you know the 10 you had on the index 1 in the medal last week? well look at the GI round and it has been reduced already. they are handicap adjustments, not free competition points

    🤣



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,229 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    I'm well aware of that. Assuming your 10 on index one was in a stroke play, Congu also used to adjust for that under Clause 19. So it's nothing new, just more visibility of it under WHS.

    Not sure why you think it's a wind up. It would seem that the way WHS allocates net bogeys / net pars for holes not completed is open to a bit of abuse.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,125 ✭✭✭finglashoop


    If you dont play a hole you'd be a non runner in the comp wouldnt you?



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,000 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    yes as per above I can see how it could be abused for a handicap, but WHS doesn't award points for competitions. It's sole remit is handicapping.



  • Registered Users Posts: 845 ✭✭✭Ronney


    With regards to competitions the computer is really just an admin aid. What's written on the card is what counts for the prizes. If I have 36 pts on the card and 40pts on the computer its the 36 that counts.


    Think clarity should be issued as when to use Hole not played v's picked up. If you decide to go in early and don't play the last few you have technically Picked up.

    If like recently 1 hole is out of action for say maintenance issues then its the holes not played and points/score awarded to allow the 17/18 holes played to count



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,229 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    That would make sense, the way I read Paulo's post, I thought it might be for competitions as well. Which would be madness.

    Ya, it's open to abuse for guys wanting to "lock in" a cut. Not as big of a problem as guys doing things to move upwards but plenty of competition to keep handicaps low for the really low guys.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,883 ✭✭✭Russman


    That's an interesting angle alright. So, in theory you could have lets say the front nine is significantly easier than the back nine, you turn with 22 points, maybe par 10 and then bail in, happy to accept 15 points for the remaining 8 holes because that would give you XX gross score ? Although I'd imagine if it happened more than once or twice, there would be a spotlight shone on it.

    You'd want to be hard up for a cut to be at that craic. Although with the lengths I've seen some of the real low men go to in the past to avoid 0.1 or get some class of a cut, nothing would surprise me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 21,229 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    Not sure if the system would throw up any automatic alerts for that type of carry on. It should do if not, you're relying on a very vigilant HC Sec if not.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 589 ✭✭✭bakerbhoy


    H/cap calculation only.

    Zero null points for the comp.

    Don't win comp.

    Depends then whether you game the software by entering.

    Played but DNS. or

    DNP..

    It happens unfortunately.



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