Best Electricity Plan for new EV Owners

ELM327 · 29-05-2023 4:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120654679#Comment_120654679

Yes I do, but I'm limited by 15kW o clock so even if I had more inverters and batteries I can only take 45kWh as an absolute max during that time.

That wont charge my car fully, and I often have days that I need to charge from sub 20 to 100 on consecutive days. So I'd need like 60 plus kwh of batteries.

At least if theres 6 hours thats over 60kWh so enough to charge the car and the house batteries in winter. Of course, a non issue in summer.

unkel · 29-05-2023 4:51pm

It would help the transition to renewables if the government would get the ESB to upgrade people's connections. I'd love 3ph and something like 30kva

ELM327 · 30-05-2023 8:55am

three phase would add an additional layer of complexity with inverters etc needing to worry about balancing the phases. Give me single phase but larger connection. I had networks out to assess cost for MIC (and thus MEC) increase even to 16kva but they wouldnt do it without swapping me to a smart meter. Eh no. I can take 16kW on my 12kva connection for now lol.

Mr Q · 30-05-2023 10:06am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120654707#Comment_120654707

But it wouldn't be needed really. If we could just get some decent 9 hour night rate plans again.

I have a 16kva connection but with the short 3 hour boost plans couldn't charge car and batteries.

But on my soon to run out current EV plan it is no problem, also wouldn't be a problem on a 12kva connection for me with current night rate hours.

ELM327 · 30-05-2023 10:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120656806#Comment_120656806

How much can you draw on the 16kva, probably 19kW or so? I think 4 hours at that would be enough for me most of the year but its the winter months where you are charging the car on grid, no solar excess to use, so you need 8-9 hours to charge.

I wonder is there a DC charger with a battery and a 7kW AC connection that you could buy, so you top up slowly and then splurge the energy into the car.

Mr Q · 30-05-2023 11:28am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120656823#Comment_120656823

I'm not sure of the max it could actually draw, don't recall it getting to 16 even. That's with an EV, HP and a Sofar for the battery.

When I purchased the Sofar I knew I could charge the battery in full over the 9 hour night period. Same for the car.

So the newer type short hour boost rates are not good for me. And I'm still on a D/N meter anyway.

unkel · 30-05-2023 11:31am

@ELM327 - "I wonder is there a DC charger with a battery and a 7kW AC connection that you could buy, so you top up slowly and then splurge the energy into the car."

There's not much point in that, is there? 😂 The speed of charging the car is not the issue, it's the slow time frame that you can get cheap night rate for.

I agree though that those 3 hour windows are pretty mean. I would also prefer a real cost rate, published the day before. Like they get in the UK with Octopus. Sometimes you are actually getting paid to take electricity. And sometimes it costs well over €1 per kWh. The polluter pays.

Then it's just a matter of how fast you can take it. If you can max out the 12kva connection (about 15kW) for several hours, that would really help alright. Particularly if you can automate it based on the API from the provider. Charge when cheap or free, export / dump your battery into the grid when you get paid most for it. This isn't all that hard, I am a n00b at this automation stuff and it is very doable.

ELM327 · 30-05-2023 11:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120657130#Comment_120657130

Thats mad. I was just curious because I regularly draw 15-16kW on my 12kVa connection and was wondering if it was worth my while top upgrade to 16kva when they install a RM107 MCC02 smart meter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120657138#Comment_120657138

Sorry, I meant higher than 7kW, so you could charge that up and the car too, and then charge the car on DC after the cheap window ended. I just want my 9 hours of cheap rate!!

If we're restrcited to 7kW single phase for our EVs then we need 9 hours at least to charge when empty so taking any less than that is not really an option.

Mr Q · 30-05-2023 11:58am

@ELM327 How much is the upgrade to 16? I built and at the time the difference was a small enough cost.

ELM327 · 30-05-2023 12:00pm

The upgrade was I believe a standard cost of approx1700 (from memory). The only reason I didnt do it was they put a smart meter as an upgrade condition. If you needed tails or network updates that goes on top of the 1700. I'm lucky that I have what was two supplies now joined to one meter, so I have 2 distinct consumer units - and a further sub board - so once I balance my use correctly the first thing likely to be exceeded is the 80a networks fuse rather than either of the CUs

Mr Q · 30-05-2023 12:01pm

The standing charges are out of control. Close to 500 now for rural night rate with Flogas.

Shame there isn't someone who could regulate these. Other than the useless current one.

ELM327 · 30-05-2023 12:04pm

Oh thats quite high, the flogas fixed charge. Of course, fixed charges are c=just another part of the tariff and despite what supply companies say, there is zero connection between the fixed charge you pay to your energy supplier and the fixed charge they pay to the T/DSO

Stevie2001 · 30-05-2023 12:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120657273#Comment_120657273

So standing charge is €200 more a year than most charge for day rate eg electric ireland

That's 500kWh you've lost day one compared to day rate, which is probably 3 months driving for the average person

Off topic but at 20c a kWh and €200 extra standing charge, the savings are pretty mediocre for the average person doing 15,000km per year

Car does 20kWh/100km, seems high but remember electric vehicles experience a loss of energy during “refuelling,” with an energy loss of about 15% from the wall power to the battery during charging, so that 17kWh/100km on your dash is really about 20kWh/100km from the wall.

So 20c x 20kWh/100km x 15,000km + standing charge €200 extra = €800 a year to do 15,000km

Any random diesel doing 5l/100km with diesel at 1.45l = €1080 a year to do 15,000km

€5 a week savings

ECO_Mental · 30-05-2023 12:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120657265#Comment_120657265

I have a 16kVA connection and the networks fuse is 100A, the CU fuse/trip is 80A.

I got mine as a new build back in 2021 and I have a D/N meter with it as well.

I though with all new connections they put in smart meters as well and when filling out the new connection I just ticked I want a D/N there was no other options other than 24hr or D/N.

unkel · 30-05-2023 12:56pm

@ELM327 - "If we're restrcited to 7kW single phase for our EVs then we need 9 hours at least to charge when empty so taking any less than that is not really an option."

Well it's not that much of an inconvenience plugging in every other night or even every night. Even if you did 30k km in your Tesla Model 3 per year, that's 82km per day. With 18kWh / 100km that's 14kWh used per day. Or just 2 hours charging

ELM327 · 30-05-2023 1:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120657443#Comment_120657443

I had the guy out and he said they will probably tag it as smart meter required, since they are no longer supplying any new or updated connections in the area with non smart meters. I have an 80A fuse split between a 63A main CU, a 40A CU and a 40A sub board. I can - without issue from the boards or domestic fuses - draw well over 100A and the first thing to trip would be the networks main fuse. This is why I wanted to upgrade to 16kVa to get the 100A networks fuse replaced. I dont want to be relying on esbn to come out to switch my fuse! At least in a CU these days fuses are switches usually. One of the sub boards is older and has the non switch style fuse so I'm always careful not to trip that one. Luckily the only thing on that circuit really is the offices.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120657466#Comment_120657466

We do about 40-50k km, currently only in the model 3 since we sold the Ioniq28. The issue is its 300km saturday and 300km sunday most weeks. So while I top the car up during the week so its at 100% on saturday morning on solar, the saturday night charge is mostly on night rate. Some solar now with the long evenings. Then on sunday it gets put on solar top up again, usually about 20%-25% SOC gets added each day from the solar excess. Some days more.

TLDR I need at least 5-6 hours of night rate in the summer and the full 9 in winter due to consecutive 100-10% days. This will be somewhat allayed when herself's funky cat arrives at end of june. I'm figuring we can use the M3 on saturday and the cat on sunday, all driving for free 7-9 months of the year.

But that still leaves the problem of night time in winter still needing more than 4 hours to charge 2 evs and the house battery/.

unkel · 30-05-2023 2:17pm

You're a bit optimistic there! For driving both your EVs on PV for 9 months of the year, I'd say you'd need 50kwp or something of that order. If I lived were you lived, that would be my aim anyway (maybe double that). And get a modest retirement income from the FIT 😁

ELM327 · 30-05-2023 2:20pm

I'm touching 1mWh for this month, and its only may. I'm feeling optimistic! (but to be fair I did say 7-9)

josip · 30-05-2023 5:07pm

I've a question about the Smart Meter Usage Excel. Do the columns record the usage for the half hour up to that time or the half hour after?

I initially thought it was the half hour up to, since the first column was 00:30 and for daily readings it would be logical to start with the first half hour of the day.

However, I've charging set to start at 02:00 and from the values it looks like the time in the column header, is the start time of the 30 minute interval.

So each row in the table contains 23.5 hours data for that day and 0.5 hours data of the following day?

Core6 · 30-05-2023 5:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120658779#Comment_120658779

Who is your supply company?

That spreadsheet looks very different to mine (BGE). The data BGE provide has one row per 30 minute period so every day has 48 rows.

I wrote a Python program to colour code the various charging slots, assign the daily cost to each slot and put kWh totals for the EV charging slot.

The time on mine is the Start of the 30 minute period, i.e. the period marked 17:00 is for the 30 minutes from 17:00:00 to 17:29:59.

josip · 30-05-2023 5:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120658915#Comment_120658915

EI is our supplier

unkel · 30-05-2023 7:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120657942#Comment_120657942

Only May? May is the best month for PV. It's going downhill from now 😂

My system is bigger than yours with a much bigger battery. And I do far lower mileage. I'd say I get about 5 months of pure PV driving at best.

eagerv · 30-05-2023 8:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120659437#Comment_120659437

Yes, was surprised that on average May has more hours of sunshine than June. Considering that the longest day will be in 3 weeks time.

Probably due to more convective clouds forming as temp increases.

graememk · 30-05-2023 8:29pm

Yeah may is usually my best month, cooler temps but still sunny.

Only started to get the sun at the start of this week, was v cloudy last week. So this month won't be as good as last for me.

Mr Q · 31-05-2023 10:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120657378#Comment_120657378

Rural Electric Ireland is €380 for a 24 hour meter currently. I also have night rate for other reasons even without an EV so there would be no difference for me. Of course some people will have it mostly for EV charging.

For me I do about 25k per year on the car. So using your figures that would be about €1800 in a diesel or €1000 in an EV.

Plus savings in servicing, motor tax etc. which all up to a lot more than the €5 a week you have.

Also this time of the year I charge almost fully from solar. Best of luck doing that with a diesel.

Stevie2001 · 31-05-2023 11:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661182#Comment_120661182

You drive nearly double the national average, so obviously the savings are more.

Some doing half that will save what? €400 a year on fuel/€8 a week and motor tax is miniscule anyway €120 EV vs most cars being €180/€200 a year, saving of €1 a week and servicing on any brand new car is similar anyway, EV's get serviced too, we will say €200 EV vs €400 ICE, €4 a week

€13 a week savings, making bank there, we will ignore that you can't buy any EV that will do 400km for under €35,000 too

unkel · 31-05-2023 11:14am

Yeah those figures don't make much sense at all. I pay 7.9c for night rate electricity until autumn (was fixed for the year) but roughly half of my car charging comes from my solar panels, so effectively I pay about 4c charging my car per kWh.

My EV costs about €0.80 per 100km to fuel, a frugal petrol / diesel costs about €8 per 100km to fuel, or about 1000% more 😂

the_amazing_raisin · 31-05-2023 11:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120654693#Comment_120654693

I think you might be a bit too pessimistic here, if you take the worst case scenario of 9 hours charging at night on a smart meter and using the Energia Smart Drive plan, it works out to 21.27c/kWh on average

That's not brilliant but it's within 2c of the current Flogas night rate, so the impact isn't exactly a disaster

And for much of the year you won't be using the full 9 hours and could fit more into the 4 hours EV charging window. For example if you get it down to 6 hours (4 hours EV, 2 hours night rate) then it averages out to 17.82c/kWh

The major issue is that you need to stay within the EV charging limit, which is a pretty poxy 1000kWh every 2 months 😬

the_amazing_raisin · 31-05-2023 11:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661339#Comment_120661339

I hate to agree with Stevie2001 (to the point where my blood pressure has jumped up) but he's got a point that you can't really go comparing electricity plans that nobody can sign up to anymore

That EV plan was fantastic while it lasted, but it's gone now and I don't think we'll be seeing the likes of it again. So for anyone going electric now they'll have to deal with the mediocre plans that are available now

However, just to turn the tables around, I invite the petrol pushers to redo their calculations with 5c added onto every litre of petrol like it will be tomorrow, or the additional 16c from November 1st

unkel · 31-05-2023 11:40am

@the_amazing_raisin - There's a plan now with Pinergy I think that charges you 6.9c / kWh during 3 hours of night rate. Even cheaper than I'm paying. You have to have a smart meter for that plan though

And indeed calculations for a family size car that does just 5l per 100km on average - 57MPG? Really? For €1.45 per liter diesel, really?

Best Electricity Plan for new EV Owners

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