escooter & ebike regulation

magicbastarder · 30-05-2023 9:27am

"He said in time, all manufacturers will simply cease to produce machines over 25kmh, because they cannot be used legally."

insert man_laughing.gif

"Finding the owner, in the absence of a registration number or any identifying tags, will remain the difficulty in enforcing such incidents, which are expected to increase with the new law."

incidents are expected to increase with the introduction of the new law? or what does she mean? given some of the other guff in the article, i shouldn't be bothered wondering.

Tenzor07 · 30-05-2023 10:50am

The amount of electric motor scooters, Suron's and converted wheel ebikes buzzing around Dublin now is definitely getting more noticeable.. Gardai are probably told not to chase them in their cars and I've not seen a Garda on a Motorbike in a while, have seen cycle-Garda x 3 recently picking up their sandwiches from a Deli and casually making their was back to the station with them...

Paddigol · 30-05-2023 11:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120656981#Comment_120656981

Yeah, it's madness. It's like they made a calculated decision that, despite a dramatic rise in the number of escooters, modified ebikes and ebikes on the streets clearly capable of exceeding 25kmph and despite constant claims that the non-pedal assist and 25kmph+ versions were all illegal and becoming a nuisance, they were going to do nothing at all about it. In a way I don't blame them - its not their job to catch the ball that the legislature have dropped. I just can't believe that it's taken this long to bring out a piece of enforceable legislation aimed at regulating the sector.

What'll their approach be to the non-conforming, but by now many years old/ owned, bikes and escooters once the law actually comes into force?

Tenzor07 · 30-05-2023 11:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120657084#Comment_120657084

When more serious injuries and damage/insurance claims start coming in then maybe the Govt. will start to take notice.. can't have people freely going around on vehicles capable of 50kph without some sort of 3rd party insurance and compulsory full face helmets..

The guy I saw yesterday going very fast on his eScooter on the Merrion road was heading for very serious injury if he came off or hit a car/van as he'd only a tshirt and jeans on..

Witcher · 30-05-2023 12:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120656981#Comment_120656981

Shame on the Gardai taking a break on a 12hour shift!

magicbastarder · 30-05-2023 12:36pm

i suspect the lack of enforcement may have been partly down to a 'sure why should we do someone for something when the law might change to allow them to do it in six months?' approach - and you wouldn't blame them.

Paddigol · 30-05-2023 12:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120657394#Comment_120657394

Exactly. It's been a bit farcical but I wouldn't be pointing the finger at the Gardai. They've kinda been hung out to dry by the politicians on this one for the last few years.

Macy0161 · 30-05-2023 12:53pm

And yet, despite that no massive increase in injuries or fatalities? As for enforcement - just add it to the long list of Road Traffic law breaking routinely ignored by Gardaí.

Thelonious Monk · 30-05-2023 1:25pm

They're not really doing any harm so far at least. Anyway I'm not even sure they can be policed, our Garda are already failing on so many fronts, this is the least of their worries.

I use a Decathlon 25km/h e-bike and regularly get taken over by scooters.

I honestly saw 2 teenagers with no helmets on a moped and another following them on a scrambler with no reg, going towards Nassau St on College Green last weekend. I mean it's basically a free for all.

Paddigol · 30-05-2023 2:44pm

I'm not going to get into a debate on the standard of Garda enforcement of legislation, the merits of other modes of transport, which is worse etc etc. There are plenty of other threads for that. I don't have any issue with the idea that electrically propelled bikes or scooters should be the subject of some form of regulation. I think it stands to benefit everyone. I think we need to start somewhere in improving use of road/ public space for all users, not just motor vehicles. And this falls into that category. Same with cycle lane infrastructure - its mostly crap, including a lot of the new stuff - but that doesn't mean we don't keep trying. Improving enforcement of road traffic legislation (after possibly reviewing and updating it for the 21st century) also falls into that category of taking steps to improve everyone's use of the public roads. I don't think current Garda resources/ numbers are fit for that purpose. Properly resourced and staffed designated road traffic enforcement unit long overdue.

Tenzor07 · 30-05-2023 3:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120657585#Comment_120657585

You're not wrong there, it is a free for all on the roads, was around North Dublin city at lunch time and same thing, 4 scrotes on 2 Scrambler bikes not a shred of insurance/tax/licence between them barrelling up the road, god help anyone crossing the road or on a bicycle...

CramCycle · 30-05-2023 3:40pm

Got overtaken by a scooter doing I estimate 60kmph on a country road with wheels about 20cm in diameter. They knew the risks, full face helmet, motorbike pads. Like everything though, this is the exception to the norm. Most scooters are in the city, doing 20 to 25kmph, typically less, and in most cases absolutely harmless. I remember parents giving out in the school yard about them but not mentioning the cars running reds at the lights outside the school . Peoples risk perceptions are warped in this country. They should be regulated but only to keep the majority safe, those who are going to break the rules will do so regardless.

Macy0161 · 30-05-2023 4:41pm

I've said on other threads, anyone who is holding off for legislation is likely to be more compliant rather than less if you think about it logically. If they're worried about using them illegally now, why would they wait for legislation and then get something that is still illegal?

Seth Brundle · 31-05-2023 9:36am

nearly there...

https://twitter.com/jasoncullenfilm/status/1663803263471218689?s=20

tomasrojo · 31-05-2023 10:23am

Yeah, I'm not 100% sure of how good on balance e-scooters are for society (I'm assuming a net positive, and certainly not a massive negative), but it's really beyond time to regularize them in law. Whatever about this generation of e-scooters, they're so obviously useful that law is needed for micromobility vehicles in the future as well.

tomasrojo · 31-05-2023 10:26am

I would like the EU to require them to be more modular and repairable though. Though maybe I'm out of date in my understanding of that aspect of them.

cletus · 31-05-2023 10:52am

Is there any evidence that escooters or ebikes are actually removing cars from the roads, or are they being used to replace other forms of active travel

Paddigol · 31-05-2023 11:02am

I'm all for them, with a bit of regulation (See above, blah, blah, blah...).

On my spin home yesterday evening I passed a fella on one of those small, fat-tyred eBikes, belting along a narrow footpath in Kilcoole at about 40kmph. He had to slow a little bit just as I passed him as there was a couple walking in the same direction on the path ahead of him. Did he politely slow and gently squeeze past when they noticed him? Did his slow and check if it was safe to hop down onto the road to pass them? Did he ****! He blew the little electric horn on his bike to tell them get out of the way. For every 50 decent road users, there's always one langer. Unfortunately its the langer that people remember and use to beat the rest of that demographic with.

magicbastarder · 31-05-2023 11:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661216#Comment_120661216

not sure of evidence per se, but i suspect they're replacing bus journeys for many. for people who have a commute not well served by buses, they might be a godsend.

loyatemu · 31-05-2023 11:58am

as I've probably said previously on this thread, I see a lot of kids going around on eScooters and Fiidos that would previously have been on bikes or walking, so that's not a positive development. But for all the talk of emergency depts being full of injured scooterers, you only have to look at today's papers to see that the real dangers are still coming from larger vehicles

Macy0161 · 31-05-2023 12:41pm

I assume a fair amount of "last mile" to and from public transport too, which could encourage public transport use. If it's moving off public transport, that's still a net positive as one of the complaints/ excuses is overcrowded public transport.

I'm really not convinced that most children using them would've walked or cycled instead, but would be interesting to see the evidence one way or the other. At the moment, I think that's just a stick to beat escooters with tbh.

LeoD · 31-05-2023 1:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661216#Comment_120661216

Definitely evidence that they are replacing walking trips. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214140522000512

I think too many cycling advocates are in favour of anything that isn't a car. For me e-scooters that can go faster than 10kph are a terrible addition to urban transport options. Not interested in the car whataboutery.

Macy0161 · 31-05-2023 1:51pm

Our findings suggest that e-scooters may negatively impact PA related to replacing active trips, but that the relationship is moderated by other transportation behaviors (e.g., driving habits) and contextual factors like “walkability” (i.e., accessibility) that need to be better understood over a longer period of time and a wider range of climates and built environment contexts.

It's a very limited study, of 8, in Arizona.

Cabaal · 31-05-2023 2:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120661544#Comment_120661544

Believe thats the second teenager killed on a tractor in two weeks in Ireland, if those deaths were out escooters the media would be going nuts asking them to be banned, But cause its tractors its grand,.

Large bottle small glass · 01-06-2023 1:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120657457#Comment_120657457

How do we know?

Is there any Irish based data or research?

Any mode of transport has fatalities, but the numbers in cycling for example are so low as be useless for observing trends in overall risk; injury data would be more useful.

Perhaps a standardised method of data collection in a number of hospitals would be a starting point to figure where we are in terms of comparison with other transport modes.

There is lots of studies in other jurisdiction, but not sure how helpful in an Irish context.

Macy0161 · 01-06-2023 4:02pm

We don't have it. But I am of the opinion that we'd hear all about it if there was. The nearest we had was anecdotes trying to justify mandatory helmets.

escooter & ebike regulation

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