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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    Just on the centres and back 3. You are suggesting 6 centres and 6 back three players.

    For the 40 man squad to new zealand last summer. They brought 7 back 3 players and 5 centres.

    I think one your centres might miss out for an extra back 3 player.

    Id say Frawley takes H Byrnes place with the outhalves and Larmour gets into the back 3.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yeah, you could be right. I'm not sure if the squad to NZ will be overly instructive though in terms of squad composition, as the thinking there would have been as much about having a squad large enough to facilitate the Maori games, whereas this is a pure training squad.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,420 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Having a player like Coombes means it causes compressions in defense. He needs to be watched by 3 forwards which creates space elsewhere

    Conan at 8 doesn't do this, he tends to score his tries on the edges where he can overpower wingers or full backs

    Coombes allows space for other players to attack because he is such a ball carrying threat

    He also has an excellent passing handling and can pop balls out once he's committed defenders.

    Coombes isn't loved by Munster just because of what he does, but because of what he allows other players to do around him.

    Its the same with Will Skelton. Even when he doesn't have the ball, he forces the opposition to focus on him and that creates opportunities elsewhere.

    Munster have improved this year for 3 main reasons.

    1. Our conditioning has improved a lot.

    2 Our tactics have changed to pass the ball a lot more and keep the ball alive

    3 We have multiple ball carrying threats in the 2nd row and Back Back row. Having one ball carrier is no good because they get taken out at rucks and suddenly you're forced to go wide or kick because all your big players are getting back to their feet. The benefit of having 2 big 2nd Rows alongside Coombes at 8 and the likes of Fineen Wycherly at 6 means we have 4 huge mobile players on the pitch at once who can all carry the ball and offload.

    (Leinster have tried this too, playing Baird at 6 for essentially a 3 lock pack)

    Having better conditioning allows us to play more phase play and that creates gaps and opens up opportunities to attack. Munster have scored the most tries from 10+ phases of any team in the URC. Compare this with leinster who score a lot off 1st or 2nd phase because they kick the ball a lot and attack on the transition.

    I think Ireland were lucky to win that grand slam this year. France bottled that game tactically. They played directly into our hands and I don't think they'll do that again. (In the Final of the Champions cup, LAR started the game using the wrong tactics of kicking the ball out of play and giving Leinster the set piece, when they stopped doing that mid way through the 1st half, they began dominating the game)



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Conan at 8 doesn't do this

    Neither does Coombes really. The vast majority of his impact comes a metre from the opposition try line. You rarely see him making big carries around the park, nor do you see him getting his hands free in contact and releasing others. Of the Munster back 5 on Saturday, he was the least impactful.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,844 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    Tell me you don't watch Munster without telling me you don't watch Munster :)



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  • Subscribers Posts: 41,590 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,358 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    Apart from Osbourne nothing really surprising.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I cannot understand the lack of a second openside flanker in the squad. Is the idea that one of JVDF or POM will play virtually every game of the tournament so?

    Outside of that; Kieran Treadwell, Dave Kilcoyne, Ciaran Frawley, Jacob Stockdale and Jamie Osborne are all relatively fortunate I think to be in there.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Neither Loughman nor Milne, Kilcoyne keeps/regains his place. Is the WC squad almost definitely going to be a reduced version of this? Larmour and Baloucoune both miss out, Earls in from the cold. Hard to argue with that over the last month or so.

    Frawley has been dragging that * around for a while!



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,590 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    only surprise for me is why its 42 and not 45?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,840 ✭✭✭ionadnapokot


    & Frawley over Harry Byrne or Carbery,

    Nash over Baloucoune

    Spectacular fall from favour for Carbery


    & Earls over Larmour - i think that's a mistake



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,844 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    No Mike Haley.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,420 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Glad to see Nash make the camp, he definitely deserved it

    Having only 3 Out halves in the training camp is absolutely insane when one of them is 38 years old and suffering regular injuries with multi week recovery times

    We're going to end up relying on Frawley to cover 10 on the bench if anything happens to either Crowley or Byrne for the latter stages of the RWC when Sexton inevitably picks up an injury early on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,130 ✭✭✭PMC83


    I think he can feel hardest done by tbh, really expected to see him there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,169 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Squad is about what I expected. Glad to see Osborne back in this team. He was pulling up trees for Leinster before his injury in the Six Nations camp.

    Not surprised by the omission of Kleyn. Farrell has never shown any indication of rating him. Gone for the greater potential and athleticism in McCarthy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,758 ✭✭✭CMcsporty


    No way Frawley deserves that slot

    Need at least 3 specialist 10s in that squad to backup Sexton.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It's not McCarthy I thought Kleyn might make it ahead of, but Treadwell. Kleyn was far better than him this season and I think offers more.



  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭SlowChris


    Keith Earls? Are they going to do anything to pity him to 100 caps?



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,449 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    I could see a camp getting Osbourne in for the last back slot. He's shown an ability to cover across the backline to a high standard. Very surprised they took Kilcoyne over Wicherly or Milne. Murray hard done by as well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,906 ✭✭✭✭whatawaster



    The WC is only in France, not difficult to get Joey Carbery out there in an emergency.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭TomsOnTheRoof


    Kleyn, Hodnett and Haley can all feel very hard done by from a Munster perspective. Frisch too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭typhoony


    Stockdale's form for Ulster has been very poor this last year. If Baloucoune is not injured then that's even more surprising as he certainly is way ahead of Stockdale on current form



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    Frawley has a better chance of making the final squad of 33 than an out and out 4th choice outhalf.

    They are never going to bring say Sexton, 2 *byrnes and crowley.

    Frawley on the other hand can play 3 or 4 positions competently..



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,906 ✭✭✭✭whatawaster


    I think anyone wanting to force their way into Farrell's thinking needed to have done so 6 months ago at least. Hodnett and Frisch will no doubt be part of the coach's thinking post RWC



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,985 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Grand squad. Some guys fortunate to be there, some unfortunate to miss out, no outrageous calls.

    I think the message, again, is that impressing in Ireland camp is infinitely more important than provincial form.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    Am I right thet they only have 3 tightheads and 3 looseheads. No loughman is strange too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭TomsOnTheRoof


    Haley has been on fire for the past 18 months at least. It's mad going to the RWC without a backup fullback. How quickly we've forgotten the Henshaw to 15 debacle in Twickenham. I realise there are wingers in the squad who can cover fullback but it's not the same as having a specialist. Anyway, aside from all that his form alone justified inclusion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,988 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    Hmmmm curious squad.

    Delighted for Nash and Tom Stewart, form rewarded. Feel very sorry for Loughman, Kleyn (especially - couldn't have done any more this season), Haley and Hodnett from a Munster perspective. Murray from Connacht was surely worth a look also.

    Killer, Frawley, Treadwell, Stockdale and Osborne (maybe even Earls, in spite of recent resurgence) can maybe consider themselves a little fortunate.

    He's sticking with what he knows largely... and I'm not sure I agree (especially if he just trims off the new guys for the final 33) but I trust Farrell at this stage. I just worry slightly about the more established names not in form for a while - likes of Furlong/Henderson especially - but there's plenty of time to get them up to sharpness.

    TLDR - would have preferred a couple more newer names in there



  • Registered Users Posts: 356 ✭✭El Vino


    Hard to argue with the squad given what they have achieved so far. They have a lot of credit in the bank, Nash has been truly outstanding so makes sense. Kilcoyne probably a bit lucky. Blade at SH is interesting, maybe Casey under pressure for final squad?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,988 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    Totally missed Blade's name, interesting call up too to be fair



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