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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    I have no idea what Frawley, McCarthy, Osborne, Kilcoyne or Earls have done to make this team. Treadwell as well is pretty questionable to me.

    Anyway, its clear this was picked a while ago and recent form is largely irrelevant. Let’s see how it goes.

    Its not hard to see some injuries and suddenly frawley and mccarthy are actually playing for ireland. Frawley in a position he BARELY plays and mccarthy over someone like Kleyn who has outperformed him for the previous forever. Its risky.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,317 ✭✭✭✭phog


    No Kleyn, Haley nor Hodnett is difficult to understand but the squad is what it is now so let's hope they go one better than all previous RWCs.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,481 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    There were always going to be a few surprises.

    Earls or Stockdale ahead of Larmour in the larger panel is a surprise for me as is the absence of any other props - Effectively all the props picked here will travel barring injury as they have to bring 6.

    The Carbery omission has been on the cards for quite a while now to be honest so that's not really surprising.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,317 ✭✭✭✭phog


    It may as well be in Mars, there are rules about players joining the squad, emergency or no emergency



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,481 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    It's a 48hr delay before a replacement can join a squad to ensure that local teams don't benefit , but in truth they do of course as there's no travel to speak of and no jet lag etc.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Jimmy O'Brien is the second choice full back, and is a good option there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,130 ✭✭✭PMC83


    What are they? I remeber Conan going out in Japan, and Jordi Murphy appearing pretty quickly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,776 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    Haley for me is the big omission. Whos the FB cover?

    Haley has been nothing but solid for Munster this year and we will need that in the WC.

    Hodnett and Kleyn are great players but at least their positions are very well covered.

    I hope murray is left and casey is given the nod - we need that pace, Blade brings a bit of pace also.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,776 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    I think the trick is to keep him away if we want to win anything!



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,105 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    Something like they can't be anywhere near the squad before getting called up, and once they do get called up there's a 48 hour stand down period that must pass before they can play. So bar the player being jetlagged it doesn't matter where the world cup is, as you can travel anywhere within 48 hours regardless.



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,481 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    I think they can't even be in the country before joining the squad - So Ireland couldn't have a "shadow panel" training away at some other base in France for example.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,906 ✭✭✭✭whatawaster


    Hasn't he closed out every win we've had against the all-blacks? Or am I imagining that? We might need him for a QF



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,985 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Haley for me is the big omission. Whos the FB cover?

    Jimmy O'Brien, Jamie Osborne, and if we're stuck, Frawley or Crowley.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,130 ✭✭✭PMC83


    Well he has tbf, but then he didn't make the 6 nations squad and fell down to 3rd choice in his club. Today you'd have to say Crowley would be closing out that game, and maybe starting it if Sexton is out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    I’ve actually realized what is weird to me about the selections. Very little contingency selection. Like, some of the fringe guys picked are guys who just don’t seem to have the experience necessary to actually be expected to step in with injuries.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,985 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Yep. I don't really want to see Osborne lining out at 15 in a World Cup.

    But equally JOB is very much second choice behind Keenan and Haley's lack of versatility might have cost him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭SlowChris


    Will there be any games played using this squad?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    This is the thing for me that's unusual in some positions - like if Van der Flier is hurt in one of the opening games like Tonga, we won't have even had Hodnett, Penny, Connors or Timoney as part of this squad, and in some cases they've either never been part of the squad (Hodnett), fleetingly been part of it (Penny) and not in years (Connors).

    It seems unusual to me that he didn't just pick 45 players and just add another openside, loose head and out half.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    I’d agree with that but I’d say it should have cost him for the final squad. For this squad it would be useful to get him up to speed so that if something happened later he was available.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It's interesting to look back at some of the more recent squads and see the guys who have missed out:

    NZ Tour Summer 2022 (40 man squad): Dave Heffernan (hooker), Jeremy Loughman (LHP), Nick Timoney (back row), Joey Carbery (out half), Harry Byrne (out half), James Hume (centre), Jordan Larmour (wing), Michael Lowry (full back) - all picked in that squad, and missing now.

    November International Series 2022 (37 man squad): Robert Baloucoune (Wing), Carbery, Lowry, Heffernan, Loughman, Timoney.

    A Panel 2022: Tom Ahern (second row), Diarmuid Barron (hooker), Shane Daly (wing), Max Deegan (back row), Hume, Marty Moore (THP), Scott Penny (back row), Roman Salanoa (THP)

    Six Nations 2023 (37 man squad, with 9 call ups): Larmour (wing). Call ups: Salanoa, Michael Milne (LHP), Penny, Timoney, Carbery.

    So, it's clear it's changed quite a lot from the squad that toured NZ, but not hugely from the 6N. Some absences are more understandable, i.e. Heffernan has been surpassed by a healthy again Ronan Kelleher and the emerging Tom Stewart.

    Other guys though have just clearly fallen way out of favour: a lot of Ulster guys (Timoney, Hume, Lowry, Baloucoune), and then Carbery, Loughman, Larmour. Of those latter three, it's Loughman's absence I find the most surprising.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,460 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    I doubt they could enforce that. They'd have to put the entire French extended squad into exile!



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    Given that this is a training squad I expected to see 2 more props picked (1lh probably Loughman and 1 th probably Salonoa or Archer).


    I also expected to see a 4th 10.


    Hodnet and Kleyn could have made it too. Perhaps dropping Treadwell.


    I also wonder why it's a 42 man squad. I believe they need to submit papers for 50 players for the rwc around now from which a 33 man squad will be selected. I wonder who those 8 will be.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,301 ✭✭✭theVersatile


    A third choice Munster player keeping out the highly rated Leinster youngster - how the tables have turned! (Killer and Milne, in case ye are confused).

    Few odd selections, but Farrell's results have earned him a right not to be questioned (for now anyways, if things go pear shaped then the noise can begin!)



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I also wonder why it's a 42 man squad. I believe they need to submit papers for 50 players for the rwc around now from which a 33 man squad will be selected. I wonder who those 8 will be.

    Jeremy Loughman, Roman Salanoa, Jean Kleyn, John Hodnett, Max Deegan, Will Connors, Jordan Larmour, Sam Prendergast (😉)



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I think there's an argument to be made that Dan McFarland's sloppy coaching has kind of let down the national side in this instance too - all four of Michael Lowry, Robert Baloucoune, James Hume and Nick Timoney when at their best are good enough to be in this squad and pushing for places, and all were at points in recent years.

    However, where you can clearly see visible improvement in players at the other three provinces this season and in recent years, I would argue those guys are regressing. The guys who put their hands up this season at Ulster were really young guys who are just in or around the first team for the first time (Tom Stewart, Harry Sheridan etc) or very seasoned old pros like McCloskey. That's an indictment of McFarland and co IMO.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,776 ✭✭✭thomas 123




    He has been very very poor for Munster. Players should be playing based on form and recent merit not times gone bye.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,906 ✭✭✭✭whatawaster


    To be clear, I'm not advocating Carbery to be in the squad. My point was that, should Sexton get injured and one of Crowley/Byrne go down too, there are worse positions to be in than calling up an experienced player like Carbery, who knows the setup, knows the systems and has experience in big matches.

    For me its:

    1. Sexton
    2. Crowley
    3. Byrne, R
    4. Carbery
    5. Byrne, H


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,978 ✭✭✭realhorrorshow


    From the squad selected I would go with the below, but would probably select another openside if there was one.

    LH: Healy, Kilcoyne, Porter

    HK: Herring, Kelleher, Sheehan

    TH: Bealham, Furlong, O'Toole

    LK: Baird, Beirne, Henderson, McCarthy, Ryan

    BR: Conan, Coombes, Doris, O'Mahony, van der Flier

    SH: Casey, Gibson-Park, Murray

    OH: Byrne, Crowley, Sexton

    CT: Aki, Henshaw, Ringrose

    B3: Hansen, Keenan, Lowe, Nash, O'Brien



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Whos the FB cover?

    O'Brien. Fairly obvious. Hansen, Frawley, Crowley, Osborne, Stockdale being break glass options. Keenan has been pretty indestructible since his debut. Don't think he's missed any games through injury. We'll be fine at 15.



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